"Donald Trump Says Transgender People Won’t Be Allowed To Serve In Military"

[Jeremiahcp]

President Donald Trump tweeted Wednesday that transgender people would not be allowed to serve in the U.S. military.

In June 2016, the Pentagon lifted a ban against transgender men and women serving in the military.

“Our mission is to defend this country, and we don’t want barriers unrelated to a person’s qualification to serve preventing us from recruiting or retaining the soldier, sailor, airman or Marine who can best accomplish the mission,” then-Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said. “We have to have access to 100% of America’s population for our all-volunteer force to be able to recruit from among them the most highly qualified — and to retain them.”

Trump ― who argued during the 2016 campaign he was better for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Americans than his Democratic opponent, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton ― dodged the draft a total of five times, once arguing he couldn’t serve in the U.S. military because of bone spurs in his heels.

Donald Trump Says Transgender People Won't Be Allowed To Serve In Military

The same exact nonsense they pulled on gays in the military, always talking about the "disruption" they would cause, but the "disruption" that they were referring to (but somehow never explicitly said) come from the bigots. So it is not the disruption that gays, or in case transgender people, cause, they are not the ones causing the disruption. It is the bigots causing the disruption. So why don't we ever talk about banning the hateful bigots from the military? They are the ones who are actually causing the disruption.

Also another point I never got about this nonsense argument: It is the military, so where is the disciple? Why don't they just tell these bigots to suck it up and do their job. How disciplined can a solider really be if a single transgender person throws them out of wack? It seems to me that a soldier that unstable and unreliable is probably someone you should not arm with a gun and grenades.

The whole argument is nothing but a big pile of dog poo they use to push discrimination into our military. The military that is suppose to be protecting the American way of life, but how can it do so if it cannot even do that within its own ranks?

 

[Sunstone]

Trump, who has long been a racist, is just proceeding forward with his efforts to undo everything Obama did. So petty.

 

[Revoltingest]

The article gives significance to Trump's draft "dodging", but doesn't address the very real issue of the military's accepting responsibility for lifetime medical care for soldiers. Could it be that transgender folk pose a much higher average lifetime medical cost than non-trans folk? Are there elevated risks other than social ones?
Note also that dodging the draft as he did is legal & normal, just as Hillary, Obama & others used their various privileges to avoid military service. Btw, I'm in favor of both draft dodging & transgender soldiers.

 

[BSM1]

Donald Trump Says Transgender People Won't Be Allowed To Serve In Military

The same exact nonsense they pulled on gays in the military, always talking about the "disruption" they would cause, but the "disruption" that they were referring to (but somehow never explicitly said) come from the bigots. So it is not the disruption that gays, or in case transgender people, cause, they are not the ones causing the disruption. It is the bigots causing the disruption. So why don't we ever talk about banning the hateful bigots from the military? They are the ones who are actually causing the disruption.

Also another point I never got about this nonsense argument: It is the military, so where is the disciple? Why don't they just tell these bigots to suck it up and do their job. How disciplined can a solider really be if a single transgender person throws them out of wack? It seems to me that a soldier that unstable and unreliable is probably someone you should not arm with a gun and grenades.

The whole argument is nothing but a big pile of dog poo they use to push discrimination into our military. The military that is suppose to be protecting the American way of life, but how can it do so if it cannot even do that within its own ranks?

I think you just made your own argument against transgendered persons in a highly discipline environment: "...a soldier that unstable and unreliable is probably someone you should not arm with a gun and grenades." And before you start gathering the villagers to storm my house, I do not say this from a bigoted viewpoint as I do know and respect transgendered people. Do you expect the military to make special concessions for this person? Pay for treatments and operations? Retrofit their uniforms?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I think you just made your own argument against transgendered persons in a highly discipline environment: "...a soldier that unstable and unreliable is probably someone you should not arm with a gun and grenades." And before you start gathering the villagers to storm my house, I do not say this from a bigoted viewpoint as I do know and respect transgendered people. Do you expect the military to make special concessions for this person? Pay for treatments and operations? Retrofit their uniforms?

So your argument is that all transgender people are unstable and unreliable? That is a ridiculous and intolerant argument, regardless of how many transgender people you claim to "know and respect."

 

[Sunstone]

What's all this about the cost of transgendered folks? The military almost certainly wastes more money in a single day than the entire cost to it of transgendered people in a year. Hell, it could most likely find the savings to take care of every last transgendered person on earth just by cancelling the trillion dollar F-35 fighter. You know, the fighter that can't fly in rain,. but will cost us more than a trillion dollars.

 

[Mindmaster]

The whole argument is nothing but a big pile of dog poo they use to push discrimination into our military. The military that is suppose to be protecting the American way of life, but how can it do so if it cannot even do that within its own ranks?

You know many soldiers? Hmm, well I do, and I don't even think that environment is _safe_ for them. To me, it's just the reduction of problems and to assure their safety... WHICH IS _STILL A PROBLEM_ ON THE DOMESTIC FRONT...

One step at a time, really...

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The military that is suppose to be protecting the American way of life, but how can it do so if it cannot even do that within its own ranks?

I don't mean to sound glib, but how many Americans would argue that keeping transgenders out is actually more in line with 'protecting the American way of life' than letting them in?

 

[Revoltingest]

What's all this about the cost of transgendered folks? The military almost certainly wastes more money in a single day than the entire cost to it of transgendered people in a year. Hell, it could most likely find the savings to take care of every last transgendered person on earth just by cancelling the trillion dollar F-35 fighter. You know, the fighter that can't fly in rain,. but will cost us more than a trillion dollars.

As our military views things at the moment, the F-35 has no chance of being cancelled. (It's still in the development phase, so problems are to be expected.) It's replacing several other aircraft, some of which aren't aging well (except for the A10). And there's no other program to fill the F-35's role (which is to fill multiple roles). So it's a separate issue from addressing the costs & problems of trans-soldiers.
The question becomes.....are the problems of trans-soldiers such that they should be banned from service? I've seen no analysis.

Btw, I've never been a fan of multi-role military aircraft because of the difficulty & compromises.
Also, the UCAV (eg, the X-47) is on the verge of making spendy planes like the F-35 & F-22 somewhat obsolete.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why couldn't Pence have gotten brain cancer instead leaving us to hope Trump's crappy diet and lack of exercise kills him off soon? Put then things may still even be worse under Paul Ryan.

How disciplined can a solider really be if a single transgender person throws them out of wack?

Bingo! Military discipline wins wars. If a soldier is acting out of place over seeing a transgender person (or any person who is not like themselves) they do not have the discipline for war. If that gets them going, what will be done if they are ever showered in the blood of their own comrades?
One of those situations certainly requires a whole level of discipline that stands alone in order to stay focused, while the other is just life. When they were arguing against black people in the military, did they ever stop to think if a troop can't handle a black man fighting with him, then how in the hell will he ever handle the stress of being under fire?

Could it be that transgender folk pose a much higher average lifetime medical cost than non-trans folk? Are there elevated risks other than social ones?

So? If someone serves (regardless of etc. all whatever type of person) the military should be helping with bills and buying them dinner. If you volunteer for the military, you should not know any financial burdens during or after your service.

I do know and respect transgendered people.

Apparently you don't respect them because you said they are unstable.

Retrofit their uniforms?

They already have unisex uniforms.

You know many soldiers? Hmm, well I do, and I don't even think that environment is _safe_ for them. To me, it's just the reduction of problems and to assure their safety... WHICH IS _STILL A PROBLEM_ ON THE DOMESTIC FRONT...

One step at a time, really...

We heard the same thing about black people serving in the military. And women. And homosexuals.

 

[Mindmaster]

We heard the same thing about black people serving in the military. And women. And homosexuals.

Yes, but you are asking them to accept something few agree with. There is certainly a difference between living the way you want, and military forces/order. Women are in the military, but in limited roles that mitigate the risk of having them. Transgenders will not be captured by our enemies, they will be slain for Allah. Personally, I don't see what all the virtue of getting the right to die is - you should be damn happy you're off the list, lol. The thing is the military doesn't have time to deal with politics, ideological arguments, or whatever. Their system is designed to pump out hardened soldiers so they can survive the worst case scenarios, I think prudence is better than recklessly accepting them and then watching them be murdered by our enemies for what they are rather than being treated like soldiers. Most of our enemies aren't kind to LGBT at all, and personally I think in certain efforts it's just going to be that you have part time soldiering and that's just silly.

 

[Revoltingest]

So? If someone serves (regardless of etc. all whatever type of person) the military should be helping with bills and buying them dinner. If you volunteer for the military, you should not know any financial burdens during or after your service.

Whuh?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

You know many soldiers? Hmm, well I do, and I don't even think that environment is _safe_ for them. To me, it's just the reduction of problems and to assure their safety... WHICH IS _STILL A PROBLEM_ ON THE DOMESTIC FRONT...

One step at a time, really...

If a solider can't focus in the military or in combat because there might be a transgender person around somewhere then that solider does not have enough disciple or focus for the military and that solider is the danger risk. Get rid of the bigots, as they are the ones causing the problems.

"One step at a time, really..."

Ya, and you are like ten steps behind, really...

 

[Mindmaster]

If a solider can't focus in the military or in combat because there might be a transgender person around somewhere then that solider does not have enough disciple or focus for the military and that solider is the danger risk. Get rid of the bigots, as they are the ones causing the problems.

"One step at a time, really..."

Ya, and you are like ten steps behind, really...

You don't want to bunk up with Mary who used to be Matt, and that makes you a bigot? No, not really... Soldiering isn't about what we like, it's about what we need to defend the country. A population that represents less than 1% of the nation doesn't need any special consideration, it simply isn't enough people to care. The military also doesn't allow long-haired men, and you don't see me crying. Are they bigoted against metal heads? Holy crap, it's just five seconds from crazy-town. Why don't we let the furries and vampires in too?

 

[Revoltingest]

Y . Why don't we let the furries and vampires in too?

I'm sure they already do.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I don't mean to sound glib, but how many Americans would argue that keeping transgenders out is actually more in line with 'protecting the American way of life' than letting them in?

I don't know, as views have changed a lot over the last 20 years, people are far more accepting these days.

However, the American Way of Life (or the American Spirit, or American Dream, whatever you want to call it) is more than what is the popular view is; it is goal yet to be achieved. At its core the American essences is to better than we are today. I have spent a lot of time studying the culture I was born into trying to understand what the American Way of Life is and I can only conclude, by looking at our history, that it is to be better than we currently are and it is goal to be achieved.

The essences of America, at its core has a strong favor for equality. Something we don't have yet, but something we have been working towards, and the military, as the protectors of our way of life, should reflect this.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, but you are asking them to accept something few agree with.

Few agreed with ending segregation. There is much opposition against women in the military and serving in various positions. Homosexuals would break the entire military discipline of a unit.
These are old, tired arguments that have been proven wrong again and again.

Whuh?

I believe is someone volunteers for the military (or drafted since I just came from that thread), and all that ensues, the military should treat them almost like royalty. If you ask me, even after service they should get top notch health care and still receive food and housing stipends. If their car is totaled, they get a new one furnished by the military. The military is just of such importance to the state that the state should reflect this by taking very good care of its current and former soldiers.

 

[Revoltingest]

I believe is someone volunteers for the military (or drafted since I just came from that thread), and all that ensues, the military should treat them almost like royalty. If you ask me, even after service they should get top notch health care and still receive food and housing stipends. If their car is totaled, they get a new one furnished by the military. The military is just of such importance to the state that the state should reflect this by taking very good care of its current and former soldiers.

Understood.
But I'll ban the perfunctory phrase, "Thank you for your service.".

 

[Jeremiahcp]

You don't want to bunk up with Mary who used to be Matt, and that makes you a bigot? No, not really... Soldiering isn't about what we like, it's about what we need to defend the country. A population that represents less than 1% of the nation doesn't need any special consideration, it simply isn't enough people to care. The military also doesn't allow long-haired men, and you don't see me crying. Are they bigoted against metal heads? Holy crap, it's just five seconds from crazy-town. Why don't we let the furries and vampires in too?

"You don't want to bunk up with Mary who used to be Matt, and that makes you a bigot?"

Yes, that makes you a bigot.

 

[Quintessence]

A population that represents less than 1% of the nation doesn't need any special consideration, it simply isn't enough people to care.

Wow. Just.... wow.

That this kind of callous attitude still exists is why it is so important to protect the rights of minority groups.