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Was Jesus a Christian ?

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Thank you for great answer.
I've only one comment on how he prayed. Matthew 26:39 "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.".
Then we can answer the question "Who prays like Jesus now?"

From the answer of majority of the above questions, If we put Judaism aside for the time being, the main question
To which part Jesus can be connected more Islam or any Christian Church ?
Regards
I believe Jesus was under great stress during his final night on earth, and thus prayed. However, he often prayed in other positions. I believe true Christians are those who believe and live by the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus said that many would claim to be his followers, but he would reject them. Matthew 7:21-23 quotes Jesus as saying; "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness."
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
We Muslims have been in many debates with Christians about 2 main cases :
  • How come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims?
  • Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

Let us do a simple practice to find out Jesus's answer from Gospels only.

The answer criteria should be with 2 conditions:
  • Copy & Past statements from Gospels only
  • It should be Jesus himself words only from his mouth not somebody Else's words
Following are the questions :
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
  • Was he circumcised ?
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
  • Did he ever went to a Church ?
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
  • ..... long list
If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which party Al-Maseh is connected ?

Christian = follower of Jesus Christ

One cannot follow oneself. Jesus founded the Christian religion, but only born-agains can say they are following Jesus all the way to HEAVEN.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Things are not debatable if you absolutely cannot change your mind about them. There is no room for reason when that happens.
 

Mestemia

Advocatus Diaboli
Premium Member
I mean by Gospels Mark, Luke, Mathew, and John only asthese books tells the story of Jesus.
The answer should be provided first by Christians, I'll provide my answers later
Regards
You misunderstand my second request.

I am not asking you to answer your questions.
I am asking you to show, using your own criteria, that the questions are valid questions to be asked in the first place.
 

Limo

Active Member
Does the Almighty submit to the Almighty?

Ciao

- viole
Smart question but not applicable on Almighty the Creator Allah but you can ask for Mohamed.
Almighty is the Creator , the Great, the Unique , the Powerful ,,,, nothing like him, not a creature
He created us and every , everything submits to him
He's not like Jesus or Hitler or Mohamed
Even we're not called Mohamedes nor Jews are called Mosaes
Mohamed is a Muslim, the greatest Muslim. He practiced Islam , best example.
Same about Al-Masseh.
Regards
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Smart question but not applicable on Almighty the Creator Allah but you can ask for Mohamed.
Almighty is the Creator , the Great, the Unique , the Powerful ,,,, nothing like him, not a creature
He created us and every , everything submits to him
He's not like Jesus or Hitler or Mohamed
Even we're not called Mohamedes nor Jews are called Mosaes
Mohamed is a Muslim, the greatest Muslim. He practiced Islam , best example.
Same about Al-Masseh.
Regards

Rather a matter of opinion.
 

Limo

Active Member
You misunderstand my second request.

I am not asking you to answer your questions.
I am asking you to show, using your own criteria, that the questions are valid questions to be asked in the first place.
Sorry for misunderstanding, if you mean by valid that there are existing sentences in Gospels, no most of these questions don't have supporting sentence
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Actually, the prophets (from Abraham to Malachi), were Jews (with the exception of one or two who were from unrelated peoples). Jesus, although not a prophet, would also have been a Jew. Those that came after him would have been Christians.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It's a severe one. Even it has some sayings and hiatoey who knows if it's true or not.
Eventhough, you'll find he's away from Christonity.

Well, like majority of religions I'd assume that belief in them are for their moral lessons, advice, and keeping traditions not having everything perfect down to the T.

To answer your question:

What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?

Jesus, like Muslim, only believe in one god and one god only. Luke 4:8

What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?

The Law of Moses John 1:17

Was he circumcised ?

Educated guess. Jesus was a practicing Jew. All Jewish children (from what I gather) are circumcised by tradition. As related to Islam, I don't know. I don't know if Muslims believe in circumcision.

In the NT, "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." Galations 5:2 Paul says that actual circumcision to be right with god in the OT is no value in the NT because the "circumcision" or sacrifice/repentance is done through jesus christ. Galations 5:1-3

  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?

Yes, Mathew 26:38-40: "38Then He said to them, “My soul is consumed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with Me.” 39Going a little farther, He fell face down and prayed, “MyFather, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I will, but as You will.” 40Then Jesus returned to the disciples and found them sleeping. “Were you not able to keep watch with Me for one hour?” He asked Peter.…"

I never seen a christian denomination pray like Muslims do. The way one prays reflects who or what they are praying to or for. So regardless of how one prays, the two religions are not alike.

Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?

No. He said the father is above him. He doesn't even call himself good why would he call himself god. Luke 18:19

Did he ever went to a Church ?
Yes. Luke 2:41-52 I think even more than his parents.

Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
Of course. He predicted it, lived it, died because of it, and arose because of it. He was the crucifixion and resurrection. He didn't believe. He knew.

Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
The cross came later after Jesus death. So, it's not applicable. He didn't kiss the Star of David, so far I read. However, if that's Jewish tradition, he probably did.

Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
People pray to Mary because she is christ mother and she is a spirit and person in heaven. When jesus was alive, he wouldn't pray to his mother because his mother was there in flesh and blood.

If she had died before him, then yes, many many religions pray to their decease for comfort and love and guidance. That doesn't mean they are god; it just means, they don't believe in death.

Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
He didn't write them. The Church put them all together not Jesus. How can he authenticate something that wasn't written yet?

Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
Yes.

1. Baptized: Mathew 3:13-17
2. Confirmed: Mathew 3:17 and Romans 10:9
3. Communion: Corinthians 11:17-34 (among others. Communion is all throughout the bible)
4. Confession/Repentance: Psalms 32:5; Acts 8:22 Jesus was in constant prayer all the time.

Sacraments means: things (or practices) held sacred. ALL Christian denominations have the sacraments of christ.

Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
No. Christianity, unlike in the OT, people confess to christ and his father.

The priest is not god nor is he jesus. He does not forgive sins and never says he does. Unfortunately, I can't compare that too Muslim. The closest I can get is saying "because you hold the Quran when you pray, the Quran is forgiving you by its words rather than god."
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Jesus was a Jew. God's chosen people were the Jews. Jesus provided a way for those who were not born Jewish to be adopted by God as if they were Jewish.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
We Muslims have been in many debates with Christians about 2 main cases :
  • How come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims?
  • Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

Let us do a simple practice to find out Jesus's answer from Gospels only.

The answer criteria should be with 2 conditions:
  • Copy & Past statements from Gospels only
  • It should be Jesus himself words only from his mouth not somebody Else's words
Following are the questions :
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
  • Was he circumcised ?
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
  • Did he ever went to a Church ?
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
  • ..... long list
If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which party Al-Maseh is connected ?
the Carpenter did not intend to form a new religion
He was correcting the use of religion among His own people

when that proved difficult.....He told his disciples
go forth and preach to all nations

the correction took hold
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Think of it this way... who did God love before he made anything? no one? or there was love in the Trinity. With the Trinity there is love and power together from eternity. Without the Trinity there is a god where power is primary and love is secondary or even optional

Jesus spoke of the love he ever had with the father before the world began in John 17.
 
Last edited:

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Even from Gospels itself Al-Maseh didn't come with a new religion to be called Christianity.
Islam means submission to Almighty, and derived from peace as well.
Jesus didn't claim to be nominally Muslim, this doesn't mean that he didn't submit to God's law, just that nomenclature was different in those days.

The Qur'an states that Jesus taught the Gospel (a different book to the Torah) and that the Gospel made lawful part of what was forbidden in the Torah

Given that Jesus was a new Prophet, with a new book, and a modified law, with a religion not nominally called Islam but clearly outside the fold of teachings recognised by the Jewish divines, it seems pointless to argue that it was wrong for it to be named after Christ (ie Christianity) in the abscence of a term used by Jesus to diffrentiate the religion from Judaism.

Besides if it was wrong to use the term Christian one wonders why the Qur'an uses the term about 14 times anyway.

Regards,
~Dan
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
We Muslims have been in many debates with Christians about 2 main cases :
  • How come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims?
  • Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

Let us do a simple practice to find out Jesus's answer from Gospels only.

The answer criteria should be with 2 conditions:
  • Copy & Past statements from Gospels only
  • It should be Jesus himself words only from his mouth not somebody Else's words
Following are the questions :
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
  • Was he circumcised ?
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
  • Did he ever went to a Church ?
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
  • ..... long list
If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which party Al-Maseh is connected ?
How can Jesus be a Christian? The definition of a Christian is one who is a disciple of and follows the risen Jesus. How can Jesus be a disciple of himself?


Would words of risen Jesus heard by the apostles in the four gospels count? You see, if you allow the authenticity of the gospels, you also allow all the interactions and conversations with risen Jesus. and testimony of angels to the effect that Jesus has indeed risen from the dead. And if you do not allow their authenticity, then the conversations reported to be from Jesus can be inauthentic as well. So, how are you going to get around that?

Luke's gospel is made up of two parts, the biography of Jesus and then the actions of the Risen Jesus and the Holy Spirit in the Acts. So if you are discussing Trinity, you are going have to see the role of the Spirit as observed by one of the author's of the gospels.

How about actions of Jesus as reported in the gospels. Some reason they are less authentic than the words?

Jesus, being the second person of God, is higher than Mary and hence does not pray to her. Obviously.

If the gospel is inauthentic then words of Jesus saying that it is authentic can be false as well.

Great example of ideologically driven cherry picking you have put up here. Either go by historical analysis or by faith, your half-way house is neither here nor there.
 

Limo

Active Member
Actually, the prophets (from Abraham to Malachi), were Jews (with the exception of one or two who were from unrelated peoples). Jesus, although not a prophet, would also have been a Jew. Those that came after him would have been Christians.
Ibrahim can't be a Jew
He's before jacoub and Yehuda kingdom
On what basis this categorization?
 

Limo

Active Member
I believe Jesus was under great stress during his final night on earth, and thus prayed. However, he often prayed in other positions. I believe true Christians are those who believe and live by the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus said that many would claim to be his followers, but he would reject them. Matthew 7:21-23 quotes Jesus as saying; "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness."
What are the real teachings of Jesus? How he lived? Practiced? Need from his followers?
These are the important questions that decides if there is a new relegion called Christianity? Was Jesus head of this relegion?
 

Limo

Active Member
Well, like majority of religions I'd assume that belief in them are for their moral lessons, advice, and keeping traditions not having everything perfect down to the T.

To answer your question:



Jesus, like Muslim, only believe in one god and one god only. Luke 4:8



The Law of Moses John 1:17



Educated guess. Jesus was a practicing Jew. All Jewish children (from what I gather) are circumcised by tradition. As related to Islam, I don't know. I don't know if Muslims believe in circumcision.

In the NT, "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." Galations 5:2 Paul says that actual circumcision to be right with god in the OT is no value in the NT because the "circumcision" or sacrifice/repentance is done through jesus christ. Galations 5:1-3



Yes, Mathew 26:38-40: "38Then He said to them, “My soul is consumed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with Me.” 39Going a little farther, He fell face down and prayed, “MyFather, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I will, but as You will.” 40Then Jesus returned to the disciples and found them sleeping. “Were you not able to keep watch with Me for one hour?” He asked Peter.…"

I never seen a christian denomination pray like Muslims do. The way one prays reflects who or what they are praying to or for. So regardless of how one prays, the two religions are not alike.



No. He said the father is above him. He doesn't even call himself good why would he call himself god. Luke 18:19


Yes. Luke 2:41-52 I think even more than his parents.


Of course. He predicted it, lived it, died because of it, and arose because of it. He was the crucifixion and resurrection. He didn't believe. He knew.


The cross came later after Jesus death. So, it's not applicable. He didn't kiss the Star of David, so far I read. However, if that's Jewish tradition, he probably did.


People pray to Mary because she is christ mother and she is a spirit and person in heaven. When jesus was alive, he wouldn't pray to his mother because his mother was there in flesh and blood.

If she had died before him, then yes, many many religions pray to their decease for comfort and love and guidance. That doesn't mean they are god; it just means, they don't believe in death.


He didn't write them. The Church put them all together not Jesus. How can he authenticate something that wasn't written yet?


Yes.

1. Baptized: Mathew 3:13-17
2. Confirmed: Mathew 3:17 and Romans 10:9
3. Communion: Corinthians 11:17-34 (among others. Communion is all throughout the bible)
4. Confession/Repentance: Psalms 32:5; Acts 8:22 Jesus was in constant prayer all the time.

Sacraments means: things (or practices) held sacred. ALL Christian denominations have the sacraments of christ.


No. Christianity, unlike in the OT, people confess to christ and his father.

The priest is not god nor is he jesus. He does not forgive sins and never says he does. Unfortunately, I can't compare that too Muslim. The closest I can get is saying "because you hold the Quran when you pray, the Quran is forgiving you by its words rather than god."
Thank you for your responses but a few of them are just your opinion which disagree with other Churches and even with Gospels.
For example, Jesus never went to a church. He used to go to synagogue.
Circumsitio is obligated for Jews and Muslims as Jesus did but look who stopped it paul.
Jesus said nothing about crucification or resurrection and never praised a cross
Confusion to priest is just church teachings
This is the point most of teachings, prayers, belief, practicing of Christianity if it's challenged against Gospels you'll find out that it's not Christ's teachings neither the way he lived or liked people to practice it's church's leaders teachings on top of them Paul.
If we compare Jesus' way of life and belief you'll find him more connected to Islam
 
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