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Featured Was Jesus a Christian ?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Limo, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    We Muslims have been in many debates with Christians about 2 main cases :
    • How come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims?
    • Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

    Let us do a simple practice to find out Jesus's answer from Gospels only.

    The answer criteria should be with 2 conditions:
    • Copy & Past statements from Gospels only
    • It should be Jesus himself words only from his mouth not somebody Else's words
    Following are the questions :
    • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
    • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
    • Was he circumcised ?
    • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
    • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
    • Did he ever went to a Church ?
    • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
    • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
    • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
    • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
    • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
    • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
    • ..... long list
    If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which party Al-Maseh is connected ?
     
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  2. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Please define for the thread what exactly you mean by "the Gospels"?

    Please present using your own above stated criteria, the support for the questions you listed.
     
  3. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    I mean by Gospels Mark, Luke, Mathew, and John only asthese books tells the story of Jesus.
    The answer should be provided first by Christians, I'll provide my answers later
    Regards
     
  4. Reggie Miller

    Reggie Miller Well-Known Member

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    John 3

    16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
     
  5. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    The question is are "Christians" Christian. Of course Jesus was a Christian, which is closely tied to the Jewish law. It's Jesus' connection with the Jewish law that proves Jesus was no Muslim.
     
  6. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    For the time being, Let us keep Judaism aside to concentrate in discussion.

    The question (Are "Christians" Christian ?) can be answered after we answer the question (Is Jesus a Christian i.e. a member of current known Christianity religion ?)
    Regards
     
  7. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
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  8. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Yes because, regardless of how screwed up they get everything else, as long as they believe Jesus is the Son of God, they are Christians.
     
  9. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Did Hitler swear obedience to Hitler? Probably not. It would be too silly.

    Ergo, Hitler was not a nazi.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  10. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    Did Jesus even say so?
    Churches don't recognize other Churches as Christians even if they believe in Jesus as Son of God
     
  11. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    It's called Nazism not Hitlerism.

    Nazis were saluting Hitler but they believed/practiced/swear for Nazism.
    Hitler swear to Nazism and he is the first Nazi, He created/watched/practiced/proud of Nazism.

    Hitler is a Nazi.

    It's not the case for Jesus Christ and Christianity.

    Regards
     
  12. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    That doesn't matter, what matter is who Jesus recognizes as Christian.
     
  13. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    It's the core of the post.
     
  14. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Well, maybe Jesus was the only Christan, and the others are not.

    Wasn't Nietsche who said: there is only one Christian, and he died on a cross?

    BTW: what makes a Muslim?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #14 viole, Feb 16, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  15. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Can I help your post is flawed?
     
  16. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    Even from Gospels itself Al-Maseh didn't come with a new religion to be called Christianity.
    Islam means submission to Almighty, and derived from peace as well.
    It's about someone who lived righteous, obedient to the law, surrendered to Almighty's destiny.
    This is the core message of the religion of all prophets since Adam, submission "Islam" religion.
    Al-Maseh is one of them, He was a submitter/righteous --> (Muslim)
    It's only one religion but a slight different in laws depending on the people, date,,,,
    Mohamed saaws is the last one of the chain.

    Regards
     
  17. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ? "Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." (Mark 12:29)
    • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ? “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17) There are significant differences between the Mosaic Law and Islamic, IMO. For example, women in Israel were not commanded to have their faces hidden. The Mosaic Law penalty for stealing was not cutting off of limbs.
    • Was he circumcised ? Yes, Luke 2:27 reports: "the parents brought the young child Jesus in to do for him according to the customary practice of the Law."
    • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ? Jesus assumed no special position when praying. John 17:1 "Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you."
    • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ? No.
    • Did he ever went to a Church ? To a synagogue. "He then went to Nazʹa·reth, where he had been brought up, and according to his custom on the Sabbath day, he entered the synagogue and stood up to read." (Luke 4:16)
    • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection? Mark 9:31: "The Son of man is going to be betrayed into men’s hands, and they will kill him, but despite being killed, he will rise three days later.”
    • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ? No
    • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ? No
    • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ? The gospels were written after Jesus death.
    • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ? No
    • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ? No. However Luke 5:14 says; "Then he gave the man orders to tell no one: “But go and show yourself to the priest, and make an offering for your cleansing, just as Moses directed, for a witness to them."
     
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  18. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Does the Almighty submit to the Almighty?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  19. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    Thank you for great answer.
    I've only one comment on how he prayed. Matthew 26:39 "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.".
    Then we can answer the question "Who prays like Jesus now?"

    From the answer of majority of the above questions, If we put Judaism aside for the time being, the main question
    To which part Jesus can be connected more Islam or any Christian Church ?
    Regards
     
  20. Kirran

    Kirran Broadly Religion-less
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    Many of these things aren't characterisations of Christianity, they're found within specific Christian traditions.

    Religions in the modern sense of the term are a European invention anyway, wouldn't have applied at the time. Like any genuine saint, I believe Jesus transcended individual religions. Reminds me of Kabir - everyone rejected him during his life, and then tried to claim him as their own after his death.