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Featured Was Jesus a Christian ?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Limo, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Carlita

    Carlita Namu Samantabhadra Bodhisattva of good conduct

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    Thats a problem. The gospels were not written by jesus.
     
  2. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    I believe Jesus was under great stress during his final night on earth, and thus prayed. However, he often prayed in other positions. I believe true Christians are those who believe and live by the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus said that many would claim to be his followers, but he would reject them. Matthew 7:21-23 quotes Jesus as saying; "Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness."
     
  3. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    Christian = follower of Jesus Christ

    One cannot follow oneself. Jesus founded the Christian religion, but only born-agains can say they are following Jesus all the way to HEAVEN.
     
  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Things are not debatable if you absolutely cannot change your mind about them. There is no room for reason when that happens.
     
  5. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    You misunderstand my second request.

    I am not asking you to answer your questions.
    I am asking you to show, using your own criteria, that the questions are valid questions to be asked in the first place.
     
  6. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    Smart question but not applicable on Almighty the Creator Allah but you can ask for Mohamed.
    Almighty is the Creator , the Great, the Unique , the Powerful ,,,, nothing like him, not a creature
    He created us and every , everything submits to him
    He's not like Jesus or Hitler or Mohamed
    Even we're not called Mohamedes nor Jews are called Mosaes
    Mohamed is a Muslim, the greatest Muslim. He practiced Islam , best example.
    Same about Al-Masseh.
    Regards
     
  7. Kirran

    Kirran
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    Rather a matter of opinion.
     
  8. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    Sorry for misunderstanding, if you mean by valid that there are existing sentences in Gospels, no most of these questions don't have supporting sentence
     
  9. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    It's a severe one. Even it has some sayings and hiatoey who knows if it's true or not.
    Eventhough, you'll find he's away from Christonity.
     
  10. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    It's a severe one. Even it has some sayings and hiatoey who knows if it's true or not.
    Eventhough, you'll find he's away from Christonity.
     
  11. Tarheeler

    Tarheeler Argumentative Curmudgeon
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    Actually, the prophets (from Abraham to Malachi), were Jews (with the exception of one or two who were from unrelated peoples). Jesus, although not a prophet, would also have been a Jew. Those that came after him would have been Christians.
     
  12. Carlita

    Carlita Namu Samantabhadra Bodhisattva of good conduct

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    Well, like majority of religions I'd assume that belief in them are for their moral lessons, advice, and keeping traditions not having everything perfect down to the T.

    To answer your question:

    Jesus, like Muslim, only believe in one god and one god only. Luke 4:8

    The Law of Moses John 1:17

    Educated guess. Jesus was a practicing Jew. All Jewish children (from what I gather) are circumcised by tradition. As related to Islam, I don't know. I don't know if Muslims believe in circumcision.

    In the NT, "Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." Galations 5:2 Paul says that actual circumcision to be right with god in the OT is no value in the NT because the "circumcision" or sacrifice/repentance is done through jesus christ. Galations 5:1-3

    Yes, Mathew 26:38-40: "38Then He said to them, “My soul is consumed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with Me.” 39Going a little farther, He fell face down and prayed, “MyFather, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me. Yet not as I will, but as You will.” 40Then Jesus returned to the disciples and found them sleeping. “Were you not able to keep watch with Me for one hour?” He asked Peter.…"

    I never seen a christian denomination pray like Muslims do. The way one prays reflects who or what they are praying to or for. So regardless of how one prays, the two religions are not alike.

    No. He said the father is above him. He doesn't even call himself good why would he call himself god. Luke 18:19

    Yes. Luke 2:41-52 I think even more than his parents.

    Of course. He predicted it, lived it, died because of it, and arose because of it. He was the crucifixion and resurrection. He didn't believe. He knew.

    The cross came later after Jesus death. So, it's not applicable. He didn't kiss the Star of David, so far I read. However, if that's Jewish tradition, he probably did.

    People pray to Mary because she is christ mother and she is a spirit and person in heaven. When jesus was alive, he wouldn't pray to his mother because his mother was there in flesh and blood.

    If she had died before him, then yes, many many religions pray to their decease for comfort and love and guidance. That doesn't mean they are god; it just means, they don't believe in death.

    He didn't write them. The Church put them all together not Jesus. How can he authenticate something that wasn't written yet?

    Yes.

    1. Baptized: Mathew 3:13-17
    2. Confirmed: Mathew 3:17 and Romans 10:9
    3. Communion: Corinthians 11:17-34 (among others. Communion is all throughout the bible)
    4. Confession/Repentance: Psalms 32:5; Acts 8:22 Jesus was in constant prayer all the time.

    Sacraments means: things (or practices) held sacred. ALL Christian denominations have the sacraments of christ.

    No. Christianity, unlike in the OT, people confess to christ and his father.

    The priest is not god nor is he jesus. He does not forgive sins and never says he does. Unfortunately, I can't compare that too Muslim. The closest I can get is saying "because you hold the Quran when you pray, the Quran is forgiving you by its words rather than god."
     
  13. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was a Jew. God's chosen people were the Jews. Jesus provided a way for those who were not born Jewish to be adopted by God as if they were Jewish.
     
  14. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    the Carpenter did not intend to form a new religion
    He was correcting the use of religion among His own people

    when that proved difficult.....He told his disciples
    go forth and preach to all nations

    the correction took hold
     
  15. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Think of it this way... who did God love before he made anything? no one? or there was love in the Trinity. With the Trinity there is love and power together from eternity. Without the Trinity there is a god where power is primary and love is secondary or even optional

    Jesus spoke of the love he ever had with the father before the world began in John 17.
     
    #35 whirlingmerc, Feb 16, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Active Member

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    Jesus didn't claim to be nominally Muslim, this doesn't mean that he didn't submit to God's law, just that nomenclature was different in those days.

    The Qur'an states that Jesus taught the Gospel (a different book to the Torah) and that the Gospel made lawful part of what was forbidden in the Torah

    Given that Jesus was a new Prophet, with a new book, and a modified law, with a religion not nominally called Islam but clearly outside the fold of teachings recognised by the Jewish divines, it seems pointless to argue that it was wrong for it to be named after Christ (ie Christianity) in the abscence of a term used by Jesus to diffrentiate the religion from Judaism.

    Besides if it was wrong to use the term Christian one wonders why the Qur'an uses the term about 14 times anyway.

    Regards,
    ~Dan
     
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  17. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member

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    How can Jesus be a Christian? The definition of a Christian is one who is a disciple of and follows the risen Jesus. How can Jesus be a disciple of himself?


    Would words of risen Jesus heard by the apostles in the four gospels count? You see, if you allow the authenticity of the gospels, you also allow all the interactions and conversations with risen Jesus. and testimony of angels to the effect that Jesus has indeed risen from the dead. And if you do not allow their authenticity, then the conversations reported to be from Jesus can be inauthentic as well. So, how are you going to get around that?

    Luke's gospel is made up of two parts, the biography of Jesus and then the actions of the Risen Jesus and the Holy Spirit in the Acts. So if you are discussing Trinity, you are going have to see the role of the Spirit as observed by one of the author's of the gospels.

    How about actions of Jesus as reported in the gospels. Some reason they are less authentic than the words?

    Jesus, being the second person of God, is higher than Mary and hence does not pray to her. Obviously.

    If the gospel is inauthentic then words of Jesus saying that it is authentic can be false as well.

    Great example of ideologically driven cherry picking you have put up here. Either go by historical analysis or by faith, your half-way house is neither here nor there.
     
  18. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    Ibrahim can't be a Jew
    He's before jacoub and Yehuda kingdom
    On what basis this categorization?
     
  19. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    What are the real teachings of Jesus? How he lived? Practiced? Need from his followers?
    These are the important questions that decides if there is a new relegion called Christianity? Was Jesus head of this relegion?
     
  20. Limo

    Limo Active Member

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    Thank you for your responses but a few of them are just your opinion which disagree with other Churches and even with Gospels.
    For example, Jesus never went to a church. He used to go to synagogue.
    Circumsitio is obligated for Jews and Muslims as Jesus did but look who stopped it paul.
    Jesus said nothing about crucification or resurrection and never praised a cross
    Confusion to priest is just church teachings
    This is the point most of teachings, prayers, belief, practicing of Christianity if it's challenged against Gospels you'll find out that it's not Christ's teachings neither the way he lived or liked people to practice it's church's leaders teachings on top of them Paul.
    If we compare Jesus' way of life and belief you'll find him more connected to Islam
     
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