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Was Jesus a Christian ?

Limo

Active Member
We Muslims have been in many debates with Christians about 2 main cases :
  • How come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims?
  • Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

Let us do a simple practice to find out Jesus's answer from Gospels only.

The answer criteria should be with 2 conditions:
  • Copy & Past statements from Gospels only
  • It should be Jesus himself words only from his mouth not somebody Else's words
Following are the questions :
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
  • Was he circumcised ?
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
  • Did he ever went to a Church ?
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
  • ..... long list
If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which party Al-Maseh is connected ?
 

Mestemia

Advocatus Diaboli
Premium Member
We Muslims have been in many debates with Christians about 2 main cases :
  • How come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims?
  • Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

Let us do a simple practice to find out Jesus's answer from Gospels only.

The answer criteria should be with 2 conditions:
  • Copy & Past statements from Gospels only
  • It should be Jesus himself words only from his mouth not somebody Else's words
Following are the questions :
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
  • Was he circumcised ?
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
  • Did he ever went to a Church ?
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
  • ..... long list
If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which party Al-Maseh is connected ?
Please define for the thread what exactly you mean by "the Gospels"?

Please present using your own above stated criteria, the support for the questions you listed.
 

Limo

Active Member
Please define for the thread what exactly you mean by "the Gospels"?

Please present using your own above stated criteria, the support for the questions you listed.
I mean by Gospels Mark, Luke, Mathew, and John only asthese books tells the story of Jesus.
The answer should be provided first by Christians, I'll provide my answers later
Regards
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
John 3

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19“This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20“For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21“But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
We Muslims have been in many debates with Christians about 2 main cases :
  • How come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims?
  • Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

Let us do a simple practice to find out Jesus's answer from Gospels only.

The answer criteria should be with 2 conditions:
  • Copy & Past statements from Gospels only
  • It should be Jesus himself words only from his mouth not somebody Else's words
Following are the questions :
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
  • Was he circumcised ?
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
  • Did he ever went to a Church ?
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
  • ..... long list
If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which party Al-Maseh is connected ?

The question is are "Christians" Christian. Of course Jesus was a Christian, which is closely tied to the Jewish law. It's Jesus' connection with the Jewish law that proves Jesus was no Muslim.
 

Limo

Active Member
The question is are "Christians" Christian. Of course Jesus was a Christian, which is closely tied to the Jewish law. It's Jesus' connection with the Jewish law that proves Jesus was no Muslim.
For the time being, Let us keep Judaism aside to concentrate in discussion.

The question (Are "Christians" Christian ?) can be answered after we answer the question (Is Jesus a Christian i.e. a member of current known Christianity religion ?)
Regards
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
For the time being, Let us keep Judaism aside to concentrate in discussion.

The question (Are "Christians" Christian ?) can be answered after we answer the question (Is Jesus a Christian i.e. a member of current known Christianity religion ?)
Regards

Yes because, regardless of how screwed up they get everything else, as long as they believe Jesus is the Son of God, they are Christians.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
We Muslims have been in many debates with Christians about 2 main cases :
  • How come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims?
  • Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

Let us do a simple practice to find out Jesus's answer from Gospels only.

The answer criteria should be with 2 conditions:
  • Copy & Past statements from Gospels only
  • It should be Jesus himself words only from his mouth not somebody Else's words
Following are the questions :
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
  • Was he circumcised ?
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
  • Did he ever went to a Church ?
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
  • ..... long list
If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which party Al-Maseh is connected ?

Did Hitler swear obedience to Hitler? Probably not. It would be too silly.

Ergo, Hitler was not a nazi.

Ciao

- viole
 

Limo

Active Member
Yes because, regardless of how screwed up they get everything else, as long as they believe Jesus is the Son of God, they are Christians.

Did Jesus even say so?
Churches don't recognize other Churches as Christians even if they believe in Jesus as Son of God
 

Limo

Active Member
Did Hitler swear obedience to Hitler? Probably not. It would be too silly.

Ergo, Hitler was not a nazi.

Ciao

- viole
It's called Nazism not Hitlerism.

Nazis were saluting Hitler but they believed/practiced/swear for Nazism.
Hitler swear to Nazism and he is the first Nazi, He created/watched/practiced/proud of Nazism.

Hitler is a Nazi.

It's not the case for Jesus Christ and Christianity.

Regards
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
It's called Nazism not Hitlerism.

Nazis were saluting Hitler but they believed/practiced/swear for Nazism.
Hitler swear to Nazism and he is the first Nazi, He created/watched/practiced/proud of Nazism.

Hitler is a Nazi.

It's not the case for Jesus Christ and Christianity.

Regards

Well, maybe Jesus was the only Christan, and the others are not.

Wasn't Nietsche who said: there is only one Christian, and he died on a cross?

BTW: what makes a Muslim?

Ciao

- viole
 
Last edited:

Limo

Active Member
Well, maybe Jesus was the only Christan, and the others are not.

Wasn't Nietsche who said: there is only one Christian, and he died on a cross?

BTW: what makes a Muslim?

Ciao

- viole

Even from Gospels itself Al-Maseh didn't come with a new religion to be called Christianity.
Islam means submission to Almighty, and derived from peace as well.
It's about someone who lived righteous, obedient to the law, surrendered to Almighty's destiny.
This is the core message of the religion of all prophets since Adam, submission "Islam" religion.
Al-Maseh is one of them, He was a submitter/righteous --> (Muslim)
It's only one religion but a slight different in laws depending on the people, date,,,,
Mohamed saaws is the last one of the chain.

Regards
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
We Muslims have been in many debates with Christians about 2 main cases :
  • How come Islam claims that previous profits including Jesus were Muslims?
  • Another group confirms without hesitation that Jesus would call Islam a serious heresy.

Let us do a simple practice to find out Jesus's answer from Gospels only.

The answer criteria should be with 2 conditions:
  • Copy & Past statements from Gospels only
  • It should be Jesus himself words only from his mouth not somebody Else's words
Following are the questions :
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ?
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ?
  • Was he circumcised ?
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ?
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ?
  • Did he ever went to a Church ?
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection ?
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ?
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ?
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ?
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ?
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ?
  • ..... long list
If you answer these questions honestly and neutrally, you'll find out to which party Al-Maseh is connected ?
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ? "Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." (Mark 12:29)
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ? “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17) There are significant differences between the Mosaic Law and Islamic, IMO. For example, women in Israel were not commanded to have their faces hidden. The Mosaic Law penalty for stealing was not cutting off of limbs.
  • Was he circumcised ? Yes, Luke 2:27 reports: "the parents brought the young child Jesus in to do for him according to the customary practice of the Law."
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ? Jesus assumed no special position when praying. John 17:1 "Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you."
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ? No.
  • Did he ever went to a Church ? To a synagogue. "He then went to Nazʹa·reth, where he had been brought up, and according to his custom on the Sabbath day, he entered the synagogue and stood up to read." (Luke 4:16)
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection? Mark 9:31: "The Son of man is going to be betrayed into men’s hands, and they will kill him, but despite being killed, he will rise three days later.”
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ? No
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ? No
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ? The gospels were written after Jesus death.
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ? No
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ? No. However Luke 5:14 says; "Then he gave the man orders to tell no one: “But go and show yourself to the priest, and make an offering for your cleansing, just as Moses directed, for a witness to them."
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Even from Gospels itself Al-Maseh didn't come with a new religion to be called Christianity.
Islam means submission to Almighty, and derived from peace as well.
It's about someone who lived righteous, obedient to the law, surrendered to Almighty's destiny.
This is the core message of the religion of all prophets since Adam, submission "Islam" religion.
Al-Maseh is one of them, He was a submitter/righteous --> (Muslim)
It's only one religion but a slight different in laws depending on the people, date,,,,
Mohamed saaws is the last one of the chain.

Regards

Does the Almighty submit to the Almighty?

Ciao

- viole
 

Limo

Active Member
  • What is his belief in Almighty , one or two or three persons ? "Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." (Mark 12:29)
  • What law Jesus practiced ? how similar this law to Islamic one ? “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17) There are significant differences between the Mosaic Law and Islamic, IMO. For example, women in Israel were not commanded to have their faces hidden. The Mosaic Law penalty for stealing was not cutting off of limbs.
  • Was he circumcised ? Yes, Luke 2:27 reports: "the parents brought the young child Jesus in to do for him according to the customary practice of the Law."
  • Did he put his head on ground and cry to God for Help ? Is it like Judaic, and/or Christian, and/or Islamic prayer ? Jesus assumed no special position when praying. John 17:1 "Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you."
  • Did he ever say "God is Trinity with 3 persons" ? No.
  • Did he ever went to a Church ? To a synagogue. "He then went to Nazʹa·reth, where he had been brought up, and according to his custom on the Sabbath day, he entered the synagogue and stood up to read." (Luke 4:16)
  • Did he believe in Crucifixion , Resurrection? Mark 9:31: "The Son of man is going to be betrayed into men’s hands, and they will kill him, but despite being killed, he will rise three days later.”
  • Did he ever respect/kiss/hang a cross ? No
  • Did he ever pray to his mother Mary ? No
  • Did he say/read/authenticate the 4 Gospels and the books ? The gospels were written after Jesus death.
  • Did he create/practice all the Sacraments of the Church ? No
  • Did he ask someone to confess to a priest to get forgiveness ? No. However Luke 5:14 says; "Then he gave the man orders to tell no one: “But go and show yourself to the priest, and make an offering for your cleansing, just as Moses directed, for a witness to them."
Thank you for great answer.
I've only one comment on how he prayed. Matthew 26:39 "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.".
Then we can answer the question "Who prays like Jesus now?"

From the answer of majority of the above questions, If we put Judaism aside for the time being, the main question
To which part Jesus can be connected more Islam or any Christian Church ?
Regards
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Many of these things aren't characterisations of Christianity, they're found within specific Christian traditions.

Religions in the modern sense of the term are a European invention anyway, wouldn't have applied at the time. Like any genuine saint, I believe Jesus transcended individual religions. Reminds me of Kabir - everyone rejected him during his life, and then tried to claim him as their own after his death.
 
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