You're no Christian

[Sonny]

Often times, I don't deserve to be called a Christian myself, so I will not lift up myself to a level that I tell another that they are not deserving of the title of Christian, or even worse ,that they are not a Christian at all. IMHO, a persons relationship with God and their chosen denomination is their personal choice and viewpoint. I think it would be a better approach for us all to focus on our own faith rather than passing judgment on another for theirs, whether it is Baptist, Mormon, Methodist, Catholic, Lutheran, JW, etc. and etc. IMO ,God is more interested in the heart of said believer than the title of the church denomination.

God is most interested in the soul of man than his heart. Jesus died for our souls sake. That means something. But, He also said this,
"Cursed is the man who trusts in man, and makes flesh his strength."
And,
"The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?"
Jeremiah 17:5, 9
These also say that it is easy to deceive others by trickery. Paul taught us,
"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed (cursed of God)- Gal. 1:8-9.
He also said that in 2 Cor. 11:4. he wraps it up with "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder. For Satan himself transformed himself into an angel of light (to deceive Eve)."
We must expose the frauds by showing what they really teach so that all may know and stay away from these false churches/religions. They have already deceived and brainwashed millions, let's not let them have any more souls.

 

[Sonny]

The only religion that I am sure says that all other religions are not true Christian is the Jehovah's Witness religion.

The LDS, Scientology, Islam and others all say that. Of course, one needs to examine their teachings to be sure they aren't the real untrue church, right?

 

[David T]

Joseph who?
And, Jesus dying on the Cross at Calvary was part of God's eternal Plan of Salvation. It was ordained before the foundation of the world, the Bible tells us. So He had to die and nothing could have stopped it. Read Isaiah to see when God ordains it, it always comes to pass.

Joseph who?
And, Jesus dying on the Cross at Calvary was part of God's eternal Plan of Salvation. It was ordained before the foundation of the world, the Bible tells us. So He had to die and nothing could have stopped it. Read Isaiah to see when God ordains it, it always comes to pass.

 

[David T]

Are you saying if I feel like I am God then I am God? Christianity is about faith anf facts, not feelings. Feelings are, again, exactly what the cults live off of. When I used to use cocaine it made me FEEL like I was the center of the Universe. In your thinking, I really was. How nice. Let's put a cherry on top and call it a new religion, k? I'm sure we'll get some fools, uh, er, ah...I mean, some 'followers' to join us. Never use feelings in place of facts. If/when one does they are officially a cult. Jesus/Bible never says a single word about our feelings (except you can't trust them) but He/Bible speaks of finding and accepting the facts in both Testaments.

The text isn't a fantasy. Clearly you you have zero idea about nature, zero idea about God except what you parrot and have read. You start with yourself, you read a book, it determines your reality based on a whole fantasy structure that then determines your view of nature and god and any other kind if nonsense. It's actually profoundly unhealthy dis embodied nonsense. Religion and science are natures ***** not the other way around. Get off yourself and your destructive cartooning the text. Its, self serving self centered dysfunctional bs. Try breathing sometime.

 

[psychoslice]

Why use the word christ?

Wouldnt that be changing the definition to what christianity defines it?

Christ is just a pointer, as also Krishna. or the Buddha, its the thread that runs through all. Many Christians think that the Christ is Jesus, when in truth its his inner Consciousness, his realization of being One with the Source, or God the father

 

[siti]

I may have already replied to this but...
Doing good things for the right reason does not make one a Christian. I kinda posted the verse about those types of people on Judgment Day saying to Jesus, Lord, Lord, did we not ...do works in ur name. Jesus will say, Depart from Me (bc they had not accept the right Jesus in their hearts as Lord, Savior, Redeemer and God).

Are you serious - the text you are alluding to (if taken in context) says the exact opposite of what you are suggesting - that's the very kind of reasoning that makes me want to declare that I am not a "Christian". Anyway, for any genuine would-be "Jesus-followers" out there here is the text in full with my emphasis:

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock..." - Matthew 7:21-24

And what exactly were "these words of mine" that Jesus wanted his followers to "put into practice" - do you think it might have been the words that he had just - a breath or two earlier - stated:

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:13

But whatever you do - don't take my word for it - look it up and reason on it for yourself. And of course remember that you don't have to be a nominal Christian to follow the Golden Rule (neither for that matter was the idea of Jesus' originality) - but its a pretty good one to live by - and if Christians are not doing so, presumably Christ will disown them in the judgement regardless of what they call themselves.

LATE EDIT: The point being (since we seem to have gone significantly off-track in some cases into personal interpretations of what "Christian" might mean to individuals) that if your Church is NOT teaching you to follow "Christ's" teaching - namely, that the most important things are love of God and the doing of good to others (see scriptures cited above and in my previous posts and Matthew 22:37-40) then it (not necessarily its individual members) is NOT Christian. And if your Church IS teaching you to follow "Christ's" teaching then it (not necessarily its individual members) IS Christian.

Even later PS: Sonny asked earlier why I no longer call myself a Christian - partly because after many long, painstaking, prayerful and enlightening hours (years) of studying the Bible, I am convinced it is NOT the revealed word of God and partly because after even more years of searching I am yet to find a Christian Church that actually teaches that the "two greatest commandments" are really that important. I would love to be convinced otherwise on both counts, but I really can't see it happening.

 

[psychoslice]

How would you know if you have or not?

I myself was a Christian for many years, then I realized that it kept me away from ever experiencing what we call God, I realized that God wasn't someone to worship, or someone who will judge me.

My inner realization was an experience that opened up my eyes, that is my inner eyes, in this experience I realized that we are all One with the Source, or Consciousness, we have given many names to this Source, and have made many belief systems we call religion.
Yes we are all One and religion to me personally only separates us from each other, "my religion is better than yours" mentality. I believe when we realize this truth, we then treat each other as ourselves, because if we are all One, then why would you hurt another, in that you would be hurting yourself, in this realization we wont need religion, because collectively we are that One Religion.

 

[psychoslice]

Christianity is not an experience, it is a way of life.
Isn't Physics organized truth? Truth, when learned or discovered, grows and becomes greater and spreads when organized. Truth is what all of us depend on and use everyday. There is a great speech/article on truth. I may post some of it for you a bit later.
True religion is based on faith and facts. Religion that is not true is as you describe, men fooling others into believing that he is God or speaks for God. True religion never changes from its original teachings. That is where pseudo-religion comes in.

True religion is only found within, not in any church, truth is not a belief, beliefs are prisons, truth is ever flowing, you can't organize it.

 

[psychoslice]

That is the exact kind of thinking the cults and false churches use to get started and to say they are Christians. The Bible is the standard. If one opposes the Bible one is not a Christian, by definition even.

Through my other replies I think i have already answered that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christ is just a pointer, as also Krishna. or the Buddha, its the thread that runs through all. Many Christians think that the Christ is Jesus, when in truth its his inner Consciousness, his realization of being One with the Source, or God the father

In my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, that's like kind of how I get the impression of the Bahai faith. Jesus Christ is specific to a religion, as so as The Buddha, as well as The Bab. If I said the Bab was my inner conscious, that would discredit who the Bab is to their faith not my own interpretation of it given I am not Bahai.

It's the same with the word Christ and other cultural and religious "owned" words set for a specific culture and religion rather than a general word like god and spirit. It's a way of cultural appropriation (in another thread somewhere) that many got so defensive about. It's not really that, it's just respecting the culture/religion with which that religion uses their terms.

Another example would be using the word Allah and defining it how I see him (say I make him a her), and changing Allah to mean, I don't know, my inner thoughts without reference to him being a creator of any sort.

This is my opinion.

To tell you honestly (that aside), I don't understand why people would cultural appropriate certain terms within their faith. People back when didn't have a choice. A lot of it was mixed gradually (say Roman became part of Christianity) and at other times by force to the death. While we, today, have a choice. I feel making a choice of taking someone else's cultural and religious values (and names are part of those values) is doing the same as people did when they killed others who didn't convert to their faith.

I would probably stick with consciousness if it were me. Christ, Jesus, Allah, etc are religious-specific words. It kinda confuses me when you say Christ is consciousness given that's not biblical. So, it can confuse people as well.

Personal preference, of course.

 

[psychoslice]

In my opinion, and I don't mean to be rude, that's like kind of how I get the impression of the Bahai faith. Jesus Christ is specific to a religion, as so as The Buddha, as well as The Bab. If I said the Bab was my inner conscious, that would discredit who the Bab is to their faith not my own interpretation of it given I am not Bahai.

It's the same with the word Christ and other cultural and religious "owned" words set for a specific culture and religion rather than a general word like god and spirit. It's a way of cultural appropriation (in another thread somewhere) that many got so defensive about. It's not really that, it's just respecting the culture/religion with which that religion uses their terms.

Another example would be using the word Allah and defining it how I see him (say I make him a her), and changing Allah to mean, I don't know, my inner thoughts without reference to him being a creator of any sort.

This is my opinion.

To tell you honestly (that aside), I don't understand why people would cultural appropriate certain terms within their faith. People back when didn't have a choice. A lot of it was mixed gradually (say Roman became part of Christianity) and at other times by force to the death. While we, today, have a choice. I feel making a choice of taking someone else's cultural and religious values (and names are part of those values) is doing the same as people did when they killed others who didn't convert to their faith.

I would probably stick with consciousness if it were me. Christ, Jesus, Allah, etc are religious-specific words. It kinda confuses me when you say Christ is consciousness given that's not biblical. So, it can confuse people as well.

Personal preference, of course.

I cannot agree with you sorry, no one owns anything to do with spirituality, or gods, or Saviors, Christ is just a word that points to what is beyond the mind body, as also Krishna, so we have Christ Consciousness, and Krishna Consciousness, again no one owns them, they are a state of being.

 

[paarsurrey]

Christianity was founded by Paul not by Jesus.
Therefore there is not a single denomination or even a single individual among the Christianity worthy to be called Christian, if they mean from that they follow Jesus. Jesus himself was never baptized as a Christian, as he never founded it.
Please correct me if I am wrong. Please
No intention to disrespect any denomination or person, please
Regards

 

[Quagmire]

True but, the Bible is the historically accepted standard of a Christian. Those who profess Jesus but teach (or, justify) aberrant doctrines are deceiving themselves- they are not Christian. This is where personal research into both Christianity and their church's beliefs/teachings come in to play.

That sounds a lot more like a rationalization than an explanation.

 

[David1967]

[QUTE="Sonny, post: 5046631, member: 61444"]Actually, that was the passage I was thinking of, Mt. 7. It doesn't say never judge. Society must judge to have order. People must judge to have truth.

If I were to issue an edict, let's call it an 'extermination order' on towns full of men, women and little children but then I say I am God's only true church on earth, would I be? See, this is the approach we must have to both judge and state that a certain church/religion is false/cultic.

Btw, there is an American church that did just what I mentioned. Of course, those who were threatened tried for over 4 months, almost 5, to stop the mad ravings of this bunch and talk them out of this insane hatred. Alas! they wouldn't listen or back down so that state was forced to issue its own extermination order to bring them to their senses. But, you know what is the most egregious part of all of this is (to me, at least)? That crazed bunch issued that extermination order on all those people
1. Who had peacefully allowed them to move in and get settled. THEN, they went crazy on those who had always been living there. That is so mean- to bite the hand that was kind to you. And,
2. That bunch issued their extermination order on July 4th- OF ALL DAYS!! Shows what kind of leaders/people they really were/are, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]

Who was this bunch who issued the extermination order? I'm not familiar with this.

 

[metis]

Now, Catholicism has some strange beliefs, as I said (Sacrament is Jesus' literal body/blood, for one)

John.6[53] So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;[54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.[55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.[56] He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

They actually believe, falsely, that a man can forgive (absolve) sins.

Matt.16[19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall beloosed in heaven."
Matt.18[18] Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Now, why would God give this power of forgiveness to the apostles only to have it stop when they all passed away?

And it is really not the priest who forgives the sins, according to Catholic theology, but God. The priest is merely the conduit, but there are other ways in which sins can be forgiven.

To your point, then- the Bible never says we can't judge each other or other churches.

Matt.7[1] "Judge not, that you be not judged.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No. Who said that?

You did. Or rather, you implied it. You said that they were perfect when they chose to sin; the implication is that, in this situation, choosing to sin was a perfect act.

Right. Satan had a choice just as we do. He made his and now can't change it.

And did God know how Satan would choose before he created him?

 

[Katzpur]

However, there are some irrefutable dogmas of the Christian faith that are Biblical as well. So if some “church” is preaching that Jesus is not the Son of God then one can say that Church is not preaching a Christian message. Same as if they were to say there is no hell or no sin. But none of the mainstream Christian faiths fall into those categories, only maybe some like Jehovah Witness, the Mormons or a number of Christian cultish or fringe groups.

For the record, Mormonism does teach, not only that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but that He is himself God. They also preach that there is both a Heaven and a Hell and that there are most definitely sins. They teach that Jesus Christ is the Redeemer of all who will accept Him and who repent of their sins and follow Him.

 

[Sonny]

A question for the Christians who are giving narrow definitions for "Christian": are you willing to abide by this definition consistently?

Whoa! Those who say these things are 'giving' anything. We are simply repeating what the Bible teaches. And, Yes, I am. But therein lies the problem. I am unable to maintain even the least of the requirements. That is why Jesus died for our sins. He died for the sins of all mankind, bc we are all His children by Creation. However, only those who accept the Bible and live according to what it teaches will be saved.*

IOW, are you willing to abandon arguments that you live in a "Christian nation"? Are you willing to abandon arguments for your religion that hinge on its popularity?

No, we won't. America was founded by Christians. From the Mayflower Compact (have you read it?) to America's Birth Certificate (Declaration of Independence [Ever read it?]) to the Constitution (Read this one?) and all laws made for the next 150 years or so America was clearly a Christian nation. Also, if America's laws are based on Christianity then, pray tell, what are our laws based off of?

Popularity. Please, explain. BC I see that Christianity is hated more now than ever before, even in America.

 

[Sonny]

What about those groups that profess to know/accept Christ but teach, as doctrine, things that go against the Bible in huge ways?

Quick answer, they aren't Christians IF it goes against what the Bible actually, provably teaches. There are some strange Christian churches but they don't blaspheme the Bible by teaching aberrant doctrines or beliefs, just some strange stuff, like, handling snakes.

 

[David1967]

Quick answer, they aren't Christians IF it goes against what the Bible actually, provably teaches. There are some strange Christian churches but they don't blaspheme the Bible by teaching aberrant doctrines or beliefs, just some strange stuff, like, handling snakes.

Sonny, may I ask what denominational background you come from? Not a trick question, just curious.