When someone who is mean, bad tempered, unhappy, egotistical, arrogant...like all other people attempts to transform a person for God per Matthew 28:19 it would be a waste of time in the Name of The Lord. Wouldn't it?
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You're no Christian
- Thread starter Skwim
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If the Bible is really the pattern to follow and a Christian is just like everyone else except for his choice to accept God's forgiveness by Christ how is he to apply this one? Matthew 5:16
so let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and may glorify your Father who is in the heavens
so let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and may glorify your Father who is in the heavens
Sonny
Active Member
I rarely go to church. I'm hurt- long a story
There is one God, Jesus is His name (for us), He chose to become a man and come to earth, was virgin born, taught God's Plan of Salvation to us (Covenant of grace, no longer under law), died innocent but for our sins, rose 3 days late, is coming to Rapture His church (Christians), will return again for the Battle in the valley of Megiddo (Armageddon), all will be judged based on what they did with Jesus- some (most) will go to Lake of Fire, some go to heaven. The show is over, forever.
No. (hahaha- was that meant to be funny? Sorry, if no). God has never spoken to me in an audible or clear way. Like all Christians I feel His presence at times working in or on me. I need Him more! But, the word Christian was a derogatory word to describe those who followed the teachings of the Christ. It means 'to be Christ-like'. They used other names in the early days, like, 'The Way' (Acts 9:2, etc), 'Sect of the Nazarenes' (Acts 24:5). Christian was first used in Acts 11:26 for Christians. But it took time for everyone to adopt it.
Nope. We know we are 'licensed' bc we follow the Bible's teachings. The cults don't- that is another way to tell who they are. I could tell you a lot about a couple of them.
I'm pretty sure He could, too.
But the Mark He mentions is coming (soon) and that (fulfilled prophecy) is proof of not being a Christian- when it is forced on us.
allfoak
Alchemist
I would like to accept what you are saying but it just doesn't make any sense.
Think about it.
Every denomination, every obscure sect, every one that you disagree with, all think that they are the ones who are interpreting the Bible correctly.
So who is it that you think is interpreting the Bible correctly?
You?
Your church?
Who?
Sonny
Active Member
Eve was deceived and sinned. Yep, they had eternal perfection on earth in a perfect Garden of Eden but threw it all away. Bummer, huh?
No. Who said that? I know of one 'group' that teaches that but it is not biblical nor from God. That is what you get in that kind of belief system, half truths, whole lies, imo
Right. Satan had a choice just as we do. He made his and now can't change it. Then, God created Hell 'for the Devil and his demons' bc there was no where else to put them. That is why those who reject or refuse to accept Jesus is going there. And, since they don't want to be with God, the only other place is Hell. It really is our choice where we spend eternity.
Sonny
Active Member
If they acted that way then. But, they don't. Also, the direction life takes us can determine how we act. God still loves us but life has hurt them so bad they can't get passed it. Sad but it happens. I doubt they would witness to others, tho. I know when I was 'hurt' I ran from god and didn't want anything to do with 'that crap' for a time. I never rejected or denied Jesus/bible so I was still a Christian but I was a useless one then. Life can hurt a person more than their mind can handle. But God knows our heart.
Valerian
Member
Well your Biblical quote kind of discredits your definition of a Christian just above it, i.e. "a Christian is just like everyone else except for his choice to accept God's forgiveness." Yes, that is surely part of it but so is to perform great acts of charity every day in word or action or holding back anger in times of adversity. So both are necessary, prayer and constantly asking for mercy plus being charitable to our fellow man. If one should fail on one or other teaching, then I submit they are purified for their shortcomings in purgatory before allowed into the kingdom of heaven.
allfoak
Alchemist
Generally speaking when one shines a light on something it is because it is in darkness.
The presumption then would be that light is needed in a world of darkness.
What is the light is the next question.
Do we have light within us?
Light is associated with knowledge.
When you know something you are not in the dark about it.
And on and on the questions can go until we get to the root of the issue.
Which is that to know oneself, is to know the Christ within.
That is not my definition. I got that definition from @Sonny.
Sonny
Active Member
Jesus did found Christianity. He brought in a New and everlasting Covenant between God and man, forgiveness through the blood of Jesus by faith in Him and God's willing mercy and grace. That is Christianity even tho it was some time later before they called it by that name.
OK. I'll raise you one. To love oneself is to love Christ within.
We love because God first loved us. People are born with selfish love. To be born again is to trade the selfish love for the benevolent love. To do it in the name of God means to be a Christian imo.
Please show us scripture which describes the "New and everlasting Covenant between God and man".
Sonny
Active Member
If/when a church replaces Christ as the way to Heaven it is false. When they say you must do this or that or pay money or work your way to heaven or we are the only way but the Bible is not obeyed, used and taught as God's only word then you have a cult. RUN!
Valerian
Member
Well, you cannot be dogmatic in pinning any of us down to one statement. I am sure Sonny could expound on his definition and include many other Biblical teachings.
But Sonny is a non-Catholic Christian who believes in some doctrines Catholics do not, and vice versa. So we are not always going to be in agreement, but they are not my enemy nor my target to try to convince of the saving power and blood of Jesus Christ.
Can you run away from the attitude that the Bible is as good as Christ?
Please. It is written that Jesus said, "the Father is greater than I am."
With that in mind, how can anyone in their right mind consider the Bible the way they do?
Jesus not equal to God but the work of MAN equal to Christ Jesus the way, the truth and the life????????????????????
Even if what they say is true that Almighty God had it written perfectly and protected it all these years perfectly, it is still the work of men.
I do not know the one statement I might be pinning you down with. Care to share?
allfoak
Alchemist
I will see your raise and raise you one more.
To love the Christ within is what we were born to do.
Skwim
Veteran Member
The only relevant covenant I could find was when he spoke to Noah in Genesis 9, but this covenant only applies to flood waters.
Genesis 9:9 ISV
9 “Pay attention! I’m establishing my covenant with you and with your descendants after you, 10 and with every living creature that is with you—the flying creatures, the livestock, and all the wildlife of the earth that are with you—all the earth’s animals that came out of the ark. 11 I will establish my covenant with you: No living beings will ever be cut off again by flood waters, and there will never again be a flood that destroys the earth.” Nothing at all about forgiveness through the blood of Jesus by faith in Him and God's willing mercy and grace.
.
Sonny
Active Member
The New Covenant begins with Jesus' birth. But it is mentioned before and after His life (OT, NT). Is. 31:31 may be its beginning. The implication is God's word will be in every man's own hands (hearts). No more will the church leaders/fathers read it to them but they will have it for themselves.
John.
1:12, 14, 29,
3:16
6:29
Eph. 2
These are off the top of my head. I think its a good start. I have to run but I will check them and post more. We no longer are subject to the law nor are we, gentiles, excluded from it anymore. We are now accepted as the chosen by virtue of Jesus' awesome sacrifice. The New Covenant is grace by our faith. Basically, the NT is the NC.
I don't think that matters one bit. Not only is the bible contradictory and vague at times (whether you believe there is a reason behind it, or that both sides of the contradiction are true, or whatever, there are undeniably times where the bible gives two different narratives of a story and times where it is unclear what is meant), but it is not all just about Jesus. The word Christian, like I said, literally just means "of or relating to Christ," therefore, to fall into the literal definition of the term Christian, all a person has to do is hold beliefs that are of or relating to Christ. Because Christ essentially means "the anointed one," it would follow that the person believed in Jesus as a divine figure. In my personal opinion there isn't a Christian alive that follows the bible to a T. This belief, however, doesn't matter when looking at who is and isn't Christian, and even if I believed as you do, that some teach the bible incorrectly, that still would not matter, because the debate is not about who is a "good" Christian, or who follows the "right" or "best" form of Christianity, but about who gets to put themselves under the label "Christian" at all.
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