What Jehovah's Witnesses got right.

[Windwalker]

SHEESH !! You sound like a star trek movie, or, in love with the sound of your own voice, I will not try to pry into your mind any further, you are obviously into various other types of material that have nothing to do with the bible, and, what it teaches,i could care less about some rabbinic fairy tale about moses or the rantings of someone who wants to determine for themselves , right and wrong,...1Cor 1:27...gooday sir, say hello to Spock for me !

Clearly you have the truth all figured out. Good luck on your path, wherever that can possibly take you, which isn't working very well for you based on how you choose to treat others who disagree with your assertions. That's where the rubber meets the road. The proof is in the pudding. Here's a Bible quote for you. "By their fruit you shall know them".

 

[djhwoodwerks]

AGAIN, just an accusation to being wrong, with absolutely no use of the book you claim we know nothing about, all you are doing is making an accusation, anyone can do that even my small grandchildren can do that much, So, enlighten me....WITH SCRIPTURE,

Just an accusation? Are you denying that for many years JW's were trained not to take in blood in any way, don't eat it, no transfusions? But "NOW" it's a conscience matter and left up to the individual. Did God change, or did the GB finally get "new light" after thousands, if not millions of people died from being coerced into not taking life saving blood?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Clearly you have the truth all figured out. Good luck on your path, wherever that can possibly take you, which isn't working very well for you based on how you choose to treat others who disagree with your assertions. That's where the rubber meets the road. The proof is in the pudding. Here's a Bible quote for you. "By their fruit you shall know them".

He's "imitating" Jesus. They claim that Jesus was rude and called people vipers and other things, so they are imitating Him. That's how they obey, "love your enemies"

 

[savagewind]

He's "imitating" Jesus. They claim that Jesus was rude and called people vipers and other things, so they are imitating Him. That's how they obey, "love your enemies"

Jesus gave an answer to anyone who questioned him. They did not have to pass a test before he acknowledged them.

OK so he didn't answer Pilate but he didn't have time enough to answer, "What is truth?" so he didn't. Do you have TIME Jehovah's Witnesses?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Did the GB get the part of not being part of government right?

Rom 13:1 (ESVST) 1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Dan 2:21 (ESVST) 21 He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings;

@kerndog Since you portray yourself as being wise, please explain to us why, if there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that do exist have been instituted "BY" God, why would He want His people to not be part of it?

Why did God institute government, and then tell His people to stay out of it?

 

[blue taylor]

And what generation of people did God not give breath to? As the Creator, he has the right to take any life he deems appropriate according to his purpose. And the very reason he can do that with impunity is because he has the power to restore life as well...how short sighted are you? What are these limitations that you place on the Sovereign of the universe as if he somehow has to answer to any of us? What incredible arrogance to suggest that he needs any sinful human's permission to do anything.



When did he do that? When can humans insult him and deny him so that he has no right, (according to you,) to snuff them out if he so chooses? He is the highest authority in existence.....if you don't like the way he does things, who are you going to whine to?



Seriously? God just wantonly destroys the lives he created without cause? Tell me when he did this?



Why did God choose to deal with satan in the way that he has? You have no clue and no insight because you do not know the God and Father of Jesus Christ...the very God you denounce. He has reasons that are so high, you can't see them because you look no further than the end of your proud little nose.

His dealings with the first rebel will set precedents for all eternity to come if any future rebel (either in heaven or on earth) decides to abuse his gift of free will. It is the very reason why God has conducted himself this way...to preserve something so precious that it was worth all our suffering in order to maintain it. It is what makes us most like our Creator.



I am shaking my head at the depth of your ignorance. You are accusing God of being a racist now?

You have no idea why God even chose the Jews as his people, do you? You have no idea why he kept them screened off in their own land with their own laws and religion either....?
If you did, you could not say such things. It has to do with Abraham.....a man so faithful that he is the only human ever to be called "God's friend". (James 2:20-23) As a reward to Abraham, God promised to produce mankind's savior in his family line....a line that had to be kept pure and uncontaminated by any other nation. God also promised that through this arrangement, that "all the nations of the earth would be blessed". It was always God's intention to include all the nations in his purpose. But if you knew the Bible, you would know all this.



I think you miss the point of God's declaration in Isa 45:7. It is a fact of creation that everything has an equal opposite. We do not bemoan these opposites because it lets us contrast them in our every day life....positive/negative, in/out, up/down, black/white, before/after.....we encounter them all the time.

In the beginning, the one thing God was determined to keep away from his children was what any parent would do.....to keep evil away from them. He knew that evil exists as a natural opposite of good, so he locked that knowledge away behind a penalty so great, that no one but a fool would disobey him and unleash this knowledge on the human race. Guess what.....there was such a fool and she was the one who persuaded her equally foolish husband to break God's law and bring suffering and death upon all of their descendants.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was placed in the garden because these humans had free will, so if God had denied access by placing the tree somewhere else, then they could not have exercised their free will. They chose badly when they were faced with the options, and we are still living with the consequences. Do you think anyone in the future will be in a hurry to repeat what we have just proven over the last 6,000 years? And if they do, there is a precedent that has been set so that God's sovereignty can never be challenged ever again. You sell the Creator way short. He is just a little wiser than you.



Says who? All these emotions have equal opposites. Remind yourself of what engenders these emotions in a God who is omniscient and omnipotent....

"And upon Mount Siʹnai you came down and spoke with them out of heaven and went on to give them upright judicial decisions and laws of truth, good regulations and commandments. 14 And your holy sabbath you made known to them, and commandments and regulations and a law you commanded them by means of Moses your servant. 15 And bread from heaven you gave them for their hunger, and waters out of the crag you brought forth to them for their thirst, and you went on to say to them to enter and possess the land that you had lifted your hand [in an oath] to give to them.
16 “And they themselves, even our forefathers, acted presumptuously and proceeded to harden their neck, and they did not listen to your commandments. 17 So they refused to listen, and they did not remember your wonderful acts that you performed with them, but they hardened their neck and appointed a head to return to their servitude in Egypt. But you are a God of acts of forgiveness, gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness, and you did not leave them." (Neh 9:13-17)

God is who he is, not the monster who you want to make him out to be...I believe that you need to learn some respect, before God himself reminds you that his patience has limits.

"Woe to the one who contends with his Maker,
For he is just an earthenware fragment
Among the other earthenware fragments lying on the ground!
Should the clay say to the Potter: “What are you making?”
Or should your work say: “He has no hands”?" (Isa 45:9)

You want this "woe"? You want to accuse "the Potter" of crimes against his own creation? You need to study the Bible and educate yourself about who Jehovah is and what he is accomplishing in the outworking of his eternal purpose.

I think you need to wake up and realize that the God of Jesus Christ is the same God that you defame....the son will take a very dim view of that at judgment time.

Jehovah murders all Egyptian firstborn children because their king worshipped another. The Israelites think that Jehovah is killing too many of them. He sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them. Jehovah drowns the entire population of the earth. Jehovah kills 50,070 people for looking into the Ark of the Covenant. The Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the female virgins, whom they are allowed to keep "for themselves". I guess male children were not what Jehovah calls “needed”. Children tease the prophet Elisha, and Jehovah sends bears to kill them. Satan pushes God into torturing Job. This shows how Jehovah is inferior to satan by cooperating with him like playing a game. Satan goads Jehovah into playing his game at the expense of Job. It also shows how Jehovah is not all-knowing, but uncaring and full of human flaws. If Jehovah were all knowing and omnipresent he would not have had to test Job. He would have known the outcome from the start. When Jehovah has to prove to satan that he is wrong, it proves Jehovah is not God, but an invention of Judaism. Hebrew Canaanites were a warring people who justified their atrocities by saying that Jehovah ordered them to do it. If something bad happened to them they blamed it on their disobedience to Jehovah. They are still doing this today. Their only justification for Israel is that "Jehovah promised it to them". Sound familar. This same argument "the will of Allah" comes from Islam in exactly the same manner. The God of Jesus, whom he never calls Jehovah, is an all-loving God of forgiveness and loves of all his creations. How and why would a perfect being create something of itself which it hates, when it is incapable of hate? Your copy and paste from watchtower is pathetic.

By the way. Watchtower got it right when they denied the virgin birth. It was added later to try to connect Eashoa to Judaism's messiah.

 

[Deeje]

Might does not make right. Only a slave would think it does.

God is always right....are you really game to question that?

Insignificant and sinful humans are in no position to question an omnipotent and omniscient God.
His might is never used unless it is to accommodate his will and purpose for this earth and those who inhabit it.
We are in the outworking of a master plan that will see rebellion and self centeredness abolished forever.
These are at the heart of all man's troubles....the abuse of free will and the desire to put one's own will above others just leads to chaos and disaster.
Only those who learn the value of the lesson will understand and benefit from the far reaching purpose of this perfect God.

 

[Deeje]

Jehovah murders all Egyptian firstborn children because their king worshipped another. The Israelites think that Jehovah is killing too many of them. He sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them. Jehovah drowns the entire population of the earth. Jehovah kills 50,070 people for looking into the Ark of the Covenant. The Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the female virgins, whom they are allowed to keep "for themselves". I guess male children were not what Jehovah calls “needed”. Children tease the prophet Elisha, and Jehovah sends bears to kill them. Satan pushes God into torturing Job. This shows how Jehovah is inferior to satan by cooperating with him like playing a game. Satan goads Jehovah into playing his game at the expense of Job. It also shows how Jehovah is not all-knowing, but uncaring and full of human flaws. If Jehovah were all knowing and omnipresent he would not have had to test Job. He would have known the outcome from the start. When Jehovah has to prove to satan that he is wrong, it proves Jehovah is not God, but an invention of Judaism. Hebrew Canaanites were a warring people who justified their atrocities by saying that Jehovah ordered them to do it. If something bad happened to them they blamed it on their disobedience to Jehovah. They are still doing this today. Their only justification for Israel is that "Jehovah promised it to them". Sound familar. This same argument "the will of Allah" comes from Islam in exactly the same manner. The God of Jesus, whom he never calls Jehovah, is an all-loving God of forgiveness and loves of all his creations. How and why would a perfect being create something of itself which it hates, when it is incapable of hate? Your copy and paste from watchtower is pathetic.

By the way. Watchtower got it right when they denied the virgin birth. It was added later to try to connect Eashoa to Judaism's messiah.

What copy and paste is that?

What a pathetic and ignorant rundown of Israel's history...no wonder you don't like God if this is what you think he did. That is the most twisted version of events I have ever heard.
You forget that God has a higher purpose than the present preservation of human life, which he can easily restore if he so wishes. You make make it sound as if God is bound by human limitations...he isn't. Your misunderstanding of the Creator's purpose doesn't make him into a monster....it just shows how little you really know him.

When did we deny the virgin birth btw?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

God is always right....are you really game to question that?

No, I'm not going to question it. I'm saying it's flat out false.

Insignificant and sinful humans are in no position to question an omnipotent and omniscient God.

Actually, given that our species is the one most affected by God's erratic behaviour, we're in the best position to call into question his claims to perfection.

1. He claims to be the ultimate moral authority in existence but can't even stick to his own rules;
2. He proclaims incest to be bad but starts off the human race by telling a man to breed his genetically identical twin sister. Further, he allows his loyal worshipper Lot to be drugged and gang-raped by his own daughters;
   
3. He claims omniscience and omnipotence but only ever seems to be upset when people start disobeying him. He becomes angry when a group of desert-dwelling tribes back him into a corner and force him to come down hard on then. Too bad he wasn't all-knowing, otherwise he might have seen all that coming... oh wait;
4. He proclaims envy to be a sin but confesses that He Himself is a jealous god; if his morality is objective then it applies without question to everything including him. If his morality is objective then jealousy doesn't suddenly stop being a sin because God is the one feeling it. That's a cop-out. He's a 'do as I say, not as I do' god;
5. He tells the Israelites "Thou shalt not kill" because killing is wrong - then proceeds to egg the Israelites on to genocide entire people so they can settle their lands. And by this point he's racked up a body count of his own too. He's slaughtered an entire generation of Egyptian children, wiped out every life form on the planet (except for two of every species and Noah's family) in the Great Flood because most humans chose not to worship Him (how many 'unborn babies' do you think he killed, by the way?), destroyed entire cities, caused many to die in agony for having the temerity to dare to choose another god over him, inflicted suffering on the Israelites for not sticking to a Covenant their ancestors made but they themselves did not. Do you get the idea?
6. He claims to be a just god, but places us in a system that - since he's all-knowing - is ultimately predetermined. He'll then proceed to reward or punish us for our predetermined 'choices';
7. You claim he's omnipotent - so why doesn't he have the power to be consistent?
8. He's omnipotent - so why does he feel the need to resort to the most extreme measures when dealing with dissent? Why is it 'murder these, destroy that, riddle them with festering disease'? He's all-powerful! He has literally every less lethal option at his disposal. So why does he so often use the lethal ones? It's unnecessary.

His might is never used unless it is to accommodate his will and purpose for this earth and those who inhabit it.

Which leads me to my next point...

We are in the outworking of a master plan that will see rebellion

What's the point of giving us 'free will' if we aren't allowed to use it in ways God doesn't like?

and self centeredness abolished forever.

Given that the Christian god only does what he wants, doesn't answer to anyone, and dictates morality purely because he's the strongest - I'd say he's the definition of self-centredness. Maybe he could abolish himself?

These are at the heart of all man's troubles....the abuse of free will

How is using free will abusing it? Again, what's the point of giving us free will if we're not allowed to use it in ways God doesn't like?

and the desire to put one's own will above others just leads to chaos and disaster.

Gott, meet kettle.

 

[kerndog]

Did the GB get the part of not being part of government right?

Rom 13:1 (ESVST) 1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Dan 2:21 (ESVST) 21 He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings;

@kerndog Since you portray yourself as being wise, please explain to us why, if there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that do exist have been instituted "BY" God, why would He want His people to not be part of it?

Why did God institute government, and then tell His people to stay out of it?

Wise ! The only wisdom I have is here...Prov.9:10...Ps. 111:10...Ps.19:7...I promote the same attitude Jesus did...John 7:16... Gods word tells us to be obedient to human governments, YET, it also teaches us that we must obey God, rather than men...Acts 5:29...Titus 3:1... Is this a contradiction ? NOT AT ALL !! The principle of relative subjection helps us to understand and obey these commands. For example...Matt.22:21...How do we follow Jesus direction here ? ANSWER; We submit to the Authority of the government we live under, obeying it laws, respecting its officials, paying its taxes, after all, MOST, of our taxes benefit us all, think about it ! HOWEVER, if the government Authorities tell us to disobey something we KNOW goes against Gods commands, we RESPECTFULLY refuse to comply ! We give Caesar his due, but God trumps Caesar, for example, who gave you life ? God or Caesar ?...Ezekiel 18:4...So , when Caesar ask you to give your life for him, he is asking you to give him something, that does not belong to him ! So, we pay back to God what is RIGHTFULLY his, in part, by remaining neutral in the worlds political affairs. (Isa.2:4) thus we do not oppose human governments that God ALLOWS to function, nor do we promote patriotic or nationalistic activity (Romans 13:1,2) We do not lobby,vote in political elections, run for gov. office, or try to change governments.The bible gives several reasons why God requires that we remain neutral. For example, we follow the teachings and example of Gods son Jesus by being NO PART of this world, avoiding its politics and wars....(John 6:15...17:16) We MUST remain neutral in order to to be loyal subjects of Gods kingdom. Otherwise, how could we have a clean conscience when we preach the good news that Christ commanded to be spread all over the world, and that only Gods kingdom can solve mankinds problems. Additionally unlike FALSE religions that divide their members by meddling in politics and war, TRUE worship preserves our international brotherhood by helping us to remain neutral....(1Pet. 2:17) Ask yourself this, At Acts 1:8...Jesus gave us the command to take his teaching to the most distant part of the earth, and then because on the whim of your government, you go and kill everyone of your brothers that you just preached this message to (Christendom done this on an unprecedented scale in WW one and two) Also consider the action of the well known three hebrews living under the government of ancient Babylon, what was their reaction when the law required the to bow down and worship the image when the music started (much like our national anthem) DANIEL CHPT. 3 What was Jesus response to pilates authority...(John 18:36 19:11) the bible has much much more to say on this topic, but I have to go to work now and will discuss this more with you, if you so desire.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

No trinity. The idea of a "trinity" was not conceived until 100 years after Jesus. And disputed for another 200 years. It is still not universally accepted today. It was originally a Gnostic teaching.

What teaching or belief of religion is "universally" accepted today?

No military service. "thou shall not kill". How much plainer can you get.

Please explain how you can believe that God wants His people to just sit back and let whoever, do whatever, they want to them. I'm sure you know of ISIL/ISIS, do you believe that God really wants any nation to just sit back and let them come into their land and do whatever they wish, and as they're killing our children say, "I love you man", or, "at least they died faithful"?

No cross. Constantine (worshipper of Sol) declared the cross a symbol of Roman Christianity, after a battle he won with much bloodshed. The previous symbol had been the fish.

No cross huh? Let's see how the GB of Jehovah's witnesses explain it. This is how the GB use just enough of the references they quote to make JW's believe what they want them to believe.

*** rs p. 89 par. 1 Cross ***
The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau·rosʹ. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

Notice how they just use the part of the reference that talks about the "stake" only, but what does the rest of the quote say?


[GALLERY=media, 7418]Cross3 by djhwoodwerks posted Apr 14, 2016 at 8:54 AM[/GALLERY]

 

[blue taylor]

What copy and paste is that?

What a pathetic and ignorant rundown of Israel's history...no wonder you don't like God if this is what you think he did. That is the most twisted version of events I have ever heard.
You forget that God has a higher purpose than the present preservation of human life, which he can easily restore if he so wishes. You make make it sound as if God is bound by human limitations...he isn't. Your misunderstanding of the Creator's purpose doesn't make him into a monster....it just shows how little you really know him.

When did we deny the virgin birth btw?

All these things are in the OT. Not twisted versions. It's very easy to read a sentence and understand what it says. What's twisted is how people can take a simple short statement and convolute it into something that fits their theology. What I stated is the facts. You can deny the facts by trying to add interpretation to them, but it does not alter them. They are still facts whether you like them or not. By facts I mean they are stated in the OT. It doesn't make them true.
I asked a witness if they did the virgin birth thing. He said no.

 

[blue taylor]

What teaching or belief of religion is "universally" accepted today?

Life and death.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

What teaching or belief of religion is "universally" accepted today?

Life and death.

That's not a religious belief. Even people that don't believe in God, the Bible or religion believe in life and death. They are just known facts! You're born, you live, you die.

 

[kerndog]

What teaching or belief of religion is "universally" accepted today?




Please explain how you can believe that God wants His people to just sit back and let whoever, do whatever, they want to them. I'm sure you know of ISIL/ISIS, do you believe that God really wants any nation to just sit back and let them come into their land and do whatever they wish, and as they're killing our children say, "I love you man", or, "at least they died faithful"?




No cross huh? Let's see how the GB of Jehovah's witnesses explain it. This is how the GB use just enough of the references they quote to make JW's believe what they want them to believe.

*** rs p. 89 par. 1 Cross ***
The Greek word rendered “cross” in many modern Bible versions (“torture stake” in NW) is stau·rosʹ. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: “The Greek word for cross, [stau·rosʹ], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole.”—Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.

Notice how they just use the part of the reference that talks about the "stake" only, but what does the rest of the quote say?


[GALLERY=media, 7418]Cross3 by djhwoodwerks posted Apr 14, 2016 at 8:54 AM[/GALLERY]

Hey sport, if you have a copy of VINES COMPLETE EXPOSITORY DICTIONARY OF OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT WORDS, if not get a copy, they are very reasonable, or just go online like "studybible.info you can get it for free. many many pastors,preachers, and ministers have this book,look up the word "CROSS", Strongs #G4716. if you have the book , its on Pg.138 of the Greek section. Do us a favor and read it carefully as to the meaning of the word, and ,the explanation of the origins of the cross and how it got into so called Christianity, THEN POST IT ALL , NICE AND CLEAR AND UNDERLINED, like the above for all to see, so we can ALL SEE what you are trying to pull off !!

 

[blue taylor]

Please explain how you can believe that God wants His people to just sit back and let whoever, do whatever, they want to them. I'm sure you know of ISIL/ISIS, do you believe that God really wants any nation to just sit back and let them come into their land and do whatever they wish, and as they're killing our children say, "I love you man", or, "at least they died faithful"?

That is exactly what the original Christians did. They died by the thousands, but the word spread. Their martyrdom served to show others that death means going to a place better than where they were. God could care less about what happens to people in this life. The Cather's believed in the kingdom of heaven so much they would often stop eating and die. They knew where they were going. No guesswork to it. It has nothing to do with "nations"

 

[blue taylor]

Hey sport, if you have a copy of VINES COMPLETE EXPOSITORY DICTIONARY OF OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT WORDS, if not get a copy, they are very reasonable, or just go online like "studybible.info you can get it for free. many many pastors,preachers, and ministers have this book,look up the word "CROSS", Strongs #G4716. if you have the book , its on Pg.138 of the Greek section. Do us a favor and read it carefully as to the meaning of the word, and ,the explanation of the origins of the cross and how it got into so called Christianity, THEN POST IT ALL , NICE AND CLEAR AND UNDERLINED, like the above for all to see, so we can ALL SEE what you are trying to pull off !!

I can cite other sources that are completely different. Why is this the only right one?

 

[kerndog]

I can cite other sources that are completely different. Why is this the only right one?

You did not do what I asked, I KNOW you can, do what I asked , PLEASE, and then we will go from there !

 

[savagewind]

You did not do what I asked, I KNOW you can, do what I asked , PLEASE, and then we will go from there !

And I know YOU can answer the question about when Jesus received the kingdom. JWs say it is here: Revelation 6:2 and while you are at it why is it written that he is present in heaven as the lamb and on earth as a hunter at the same time?

 

[blue taylor]

You did not do what I asked, I KNOW you can, do what I asked , PLEASE, and then we will go from there !

There are two places in the NT where Jesus was said to be hung from a tree. The Infancy Gospel of James says Jesus was born in a cave. Others say a cross, others say a stake. Why would you want me to listen to an opinion of someone who has an agenda.