Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

[Pegg]

It is what this thread is all about :sarcastic

Did Quran/Muhammad copy from...?

All clues say yes, Jewish and Christian writings, teachings, legends gave the means to invent a new Abrahamic political, religious system.

its not a 'copy' though... the accounts may be of the same characters but the story behind them is quite different to what we find in the bible.

For example, Adam is a prophet of God in the Quran. But in the bible he is a rebellious sinner. The quran says prophets are not sinners, yet the bible says every man is a sinner regardless of their relationship with God.

 

[paarsurrey]

To teach you that whoever destroys one life is considered as if he had destroyed the entire world, and whoever saves one life is considered as if he had saved the entire world.

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Please quote from Talmud with reference.

Also please mention the name of the local Rabbi mentioned by you and its reference.

Also please mention detail with reference to your sentence "Not from the Hebrew Scriptures but another Rabbi's commentary on the Scriptures."

I am an open mind and I welcome truth that may come from any source and any where it comes.

Thanks for your interest in the subject.

Did you see the YouTube cassette sent by a friend here. Dr.Zakar Naik made good points in it. If you have not viewed it earlier please view it now. It takes on a few minute to view it.

This is copied from rabbis word for word found in the quran.

Quran clearly mentions that it is recorded in Jewish writings.

I mention from Quran:

[5:33] On account of this, We prescribed for the children of Israel that whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. And Our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

So; it is mentioned that it has been mentioned in the Jewish writings.

Regards

 

[Sees]

Quran clearly mentions that it is recorded in Jewish writings.

I mention from Quran:

[5:33] On account of this, We prescribed for the children of Israel that whosoever killed a person — unless it be for killing a person or for creating disorder in the land — it shall be as if he had killed all mankind; and whoso gave life to one, it shall be as if he had given life to all mankind. And Our Messengers came to them with clear Signs, yet even after that, many of them commit excesses in the land.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

So; it is mentioned that it has been mentioned in the Jewish writings.

Regards

God/Allah/El/Yahweh said is very different from Rabbi David/Joseph/Benjamin said, in my opinion. The Qur'an says God decreed vs. History says Rabbi commented. Square vs Circle.

 

[paarsurrey]

@ outhouse; others could also join if they like.

Still there is another chance to try your luck on the topic of the thread.

The Holy Quran : Chapter 113: Al-Falaq

[113:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[113:2] Say, ‘I seek refuge in the Lord of the dawn,
[113:3] ‘From the evil of that which He has created,
[113:4] ‘And from the evil of the night when it overspreads,
[113:5] ‘And from the evil of those who blow into knots to undo them,
[113:6] ‘And from the evil of the envier when he envies.’

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Anybody please; a Jew or a non-Jew; all are welcome here.

Regards

 

[firedragon]

Everyday people up with some way of trapping another. This is the picture of that. Say something random like "Muhammed copied the bible" and when reason is given and required none significant is given or reciprocated. Not everyone, but many. It shows the hypocrisy of agenda, not seeking exchange of knowledge nor refuting respectably.

Peace.

 

[paarsurrey]

Everyday people up with some way of trapping another. This is the picture of that. Say something random like "Muhammed copied the bible" and when reason is given and required none significant is given or reciprocated. Not everyone, but many. It shows the hypocrisy of agenda, not seeking exchange of knowledge nor refuting respectably.

Peace.

They will understand the truth ultimately;it is possible with peaceful and reason oriented dialogue. One should always be certain that their hearts will open someday;one could also pray for it.

Regards

 

[firedragon]

God/Allah/El/Yahweh said is very different from Rabbi David/Joseph/Benjamin said, in my opinion. The Qur'an says God decreed vs. History says Rabbi commented. Square vs Circle.

I am finding it hard to understand your analogy. Just curious to know if you dont mind.

 

[outhouse]

Did Quran/Muhammad copy from...?

All clues say yes, Jewish and Christian writings, teachings, legends gave the means to invent a new Abrahamic political, religious system.

We need to avoid copy. Some do not comprehend that it does not mean word for word.

Plagiarize is the proper word here, and it makes it harder for them to refute.


The fact is the Koran has words in that are not natural to their native language. Some are Hebrew translations, and some Koine.


To me what is obvious is no one in this thread understands how ancient authors used rhetoric in writing, which was the only way many scribes were taught to write.


We are talking about ignorant cultures world wide with literacy rates from 2% to 5%. So most writings were made to purposely keep large crowds pulled in and keep people listening.

 

[outhouse]

They will understand the truth ultimately

You do not.

No matter how much reason, and education and knowledge has been placed before you.

Your role here is strictly on offense, not that of a student who wants to learn more about his or others religions.

 

[outhouse]

Everyday people up with some way of trapping another. This is the picture of that. Say something random like "Muhammed copied the bible" and when reason is given and required none significant is given or reciprocated. Not everyone, but many. It shows the hypocrisy of agenda, not seeking exchange of knowledge nor refuting respectably.

Peace.

Two way street brother.


Why is it so hard to admit that your religion used pre existing beliefs, when it is obvious they did, and they admit to using said beliefs.

They just claim these beliefs came from somewhere else, as any religion does using rhetoric prose, to build up divinity and make people think their view is the only view.

And your own people fought this only view for how long??? they have not quit fighting over it since it has been established


Remember, the orthodox canonized books you have did not come about until a few hundred years after your prophets death

 

[firedragon]

We need to avoid copy. Some do not comprehend that it does not mean word for word.

Plagiarize is the proper word here, and it makes it harder for them to refute.


The fact is the Koran has words in that are not natural to their native language. Some are Hebrew translations, and some Koine.


To me what is obvious is no one in this thread understands how ancient authors used rhetoric in writing, which was the only way many scribes were taught to write.


We are talking about ignorant cultures world wide with literacy rates from 2% to 5%. So most writings were made to purposely keep large crowds pulled in and keep people listening.

You are talking complete B.S.

Prove what you are saying, forget about ancient people, you have the Quran right now, plain to see. Back up what you claim.

 

[firedragon]

Two way street brother.


Why is it so hard to admit that your religion used pre existing beliefs, when it is obvious they did, and they admit to using said beliefs.

They just claim these beliefs came from somewhere else, as any religion does using rhetoric prose, to build up divinity and make people think their view is the only view.

And your own people fought this only view for how long??? they have not quit fighting over it since it has been established


Remember, the orthodox canonized books you have did not come about until a few hundred years after your prophets death

Go back a few pages, read some other posts and respond with intellect and proper analysis if you can.

What canonised books are you talking about? The Quran, are you saying its a collection of books and that it came about a few hundred years later?

Bro, I cant believe you talk so ambiguously. Who told you this? I think its time you used your brains rather than just your eyes and ears, process things without spitting things out like a dumb terminal.

Respond to earlier posts and back up your claims if you can. And please dont be rude to people then you will be treated with respect.

 

[outhouse]

#1 the Abrahamic god and its books at the time of the Koran, were in your geographic location. This is a stone cold fact. Its common knowledge.

So we have a people who possessed the bible already in their hands, who produced another version, the same way EVERY new religion starts by plagiarizing previous religions.


Or


#2 a god did it.

And god does not even scientifically exist, and we can see how the Abrahamic god was produced and created by combining two Canaanite deities after Israelites had existed for over 600 years. And at that time 622 BC, monotheism was still not that popular in Israelite cultures as the bible is full of scripture that describes the fight against polytheism.

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israelite monotheism evolved gradually out of pre-existing beliefs and practices of the ancient world.[76] The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[77] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[78] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[79] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[79] although she continued to be popular at a community level until Persian times.[80] Yahweh, later the national god of both Israel and Judah

 

[outhouse]

You are talking complete B.S.

Prove what you are saying, forget about ancient people, you have the Quran right now, plain to see. Back up what you claim.

Don't call bs due to YOUR severe ignorance of rhetoric prose. Heck I had no clue until a professor opened my eyes.

ok I also stated it is obvious no one in this thread knows about the use of rhetoric in writing prose when creating religions.


It is something Harvard taught me thank you.

http://www.theinimitablequran.com/rhetoricalfeatures.pdf

The Qur’an is a ‘sea of rhetoric’. The Qur’an exhibits an unparalleled frequency of rhetorical features,
surpassing any other Arabic text, classical or modern. The use of rhetoric in the Quran stands out from any
type of discourse.



The Rhetoric and Eloquence of the Qur


The Rule of the Koran? Semitic Rhetoric

The Rule of the Koran? Semitic Rhetoric

The surprising results of research that began with the question: is it possible that such a fundamental text is as disordered as it appears? A work of structural decoding shows in reality that the Holy Book of Islam is very elaborate in literary terms and that its constructive rules are the same as those of the Bible

 

[outhouse]

I think its time you used your brains rather than just your eyes and ears, process things without spitting things out like a dumb terminal

.

Attack the message my friend. Don't get caught up on me. And "for once" would you use a credible source? instead of biased opinion?


The truth from education and knowledge is a good thing, not a bad one.


It does not take away the beauty of religion, it makes it shine brighter.


By knowing how all this went down, and the authors writing what they did, gives you a much more clear view of their intent.



I used to hate Paul, and it was solely from my own ignorance, because I had no clue what the man was really about.

 

[firedragon]

#1 the Abrahamic god and its books at the time of the Koran, were in your geographic location. This is a stone cold fact. Its common knowledge.

So we have a people who possessed the bible already in their hands, who produced another version, the same way EVERY new religion starts by plagiarizing previous religions.


Or


#2 a god did it.

And god does not even scientifically exist, and we can see how the Abrahamic god was produced and created by combining two Canaanite deities after Israelites had existed for over 600 years. And at that time 622 BC, monotheism was still not that popular in Israelite cultures as the bible is full of scripture that describes the fight against polytheism.

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israelite monotheism evolved gradually out of pre-existing beliefs and practices of the ancient world.[76] The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[77] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[78] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[79] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,[79] although she continued to be popular at a community level until Persian times.[80] Yahweh, later the national god of both Israel and Judah

Monotheism has been there from times we cant fathom.

Zoroaster was a monotheist. Hinduism is according Upanishads and vedas a monotheistic faith. Even aborigines had monotheistic faiths.

You can have two conclusions about this. One is that each religion copied from the previous, but then where did the aborigines copy from? The other conclusion is that There is a God, one God who sent his creed to humans and we all have the same creed in different versions.

As an example I used earlier of a Father telling the same story at two different times to two sons of his. That does not mean one son plagiarised the story from another.

Before going any further I would like to know your proof for these

Quran was a translation from Greek and Hebrew.
So called canonised books several centuries after Muhammed.

 

[firedragon]

Attack the message my friend. Don't get caught up on me. And "for once" would you use a credible source? instead of biased opinion?


The truth from education and knowledge is a good thing, not a bad one.


It does not take away the beauty of religion, it makes it shine brighter.


By knowing how all this went down, and the authors writing what they did, gives you a much more clear view of their intent.



I used to hate Paul, and it was solely from my own ignorance, because I had no clue what the man was really about.

Credible source. You have not given one. I dont know what credible source I can use to ask you to give me proof for your claims.

 

[outhouse]

Monotheism has been there from times we cant fathom.

.

So what?

No a word you stated refuted that monotheism started in Israelite culture after 622 BC, after King Josiah's monotheistic reforms.

 

[outhouse]

Credible source. .

I am the only one providing them.

You? biased opinion and nothing more.


You cannot attack education and knowledge, with ignorance on the topic.


I have years of intense study here, VS your ignorance of another cultures history.

 

[firedragon]

The truth from education and knowledge is a good thing, not a bad one.
It does not take away the beauty of religion, it makes it shine brighter.
By knowing how all this went down, and the authors writing what they did, gives you a much more clear view of their intent.

Why do I keep seeing this kind of thing quite often in this forum? I have seen a lot of people say that you must educate your self, learn something, I am educated, I know every etc.

Why cant you practice some humility? Also why do you make assumptions on the outset itself? Go back to your posts and see for yourself if you are acting right. And don't expect others to be calm and revert respectfully being the way you are.

Anyway I would love to associate educated theologians. I would like to know what your level of education is. That's just for my knowledge.