Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

[outhouse]

God wrote them. That's the claim. You know that brother.

And I would not follow that if I was a muslim.

It means god didnt know the errors in the previous text he used, making the same mistakes as Jewish and Christian mortal men. :yes:

I would just say a scribe plagiarised and remain historically credible.

 

[outhouse]

So you say that Muhammed only picked up from the bible or he picked up 5% of it, 10% of it? How much did he pick up and how much did he omit. Where did he get the rest of it.


.

Thats a good question, and only with study can that be determined.

The same question can be asked of every religion and every single religious book.


The Israelites did the same to the Canaanite and Mesopotamian religions
The chrsitians did it to Jews
And islam did it to both.

These are facts brother.

 

[firedragon]

And I would not follow that if I was a muslim.

It means god didnt know the errors in the previous text he used, making the same mistakes as Jewish and Christian mortal men. :yes:

I would just say a scribe plagiarised and remain historically credible.

I have heard this argument brother. But what are YOUR idea of errors? I cant see any so I am asking you to point it out. If you are like others talking of Characters like Abraham not having any archaeological backing then that's not a scriptural error, it is something with no secondary proof.

 

[firedragon]

Thats a good question, and only with study can that be determined.

The same question can be asked of every religion and every single religious book.


The Israelites did the same to the Canaanite and Mesopotamian religions
The chrsitians did it to Jews
And islam did it to both.

These are facts brother.

Alright. But you did not respond to the full reply.

 

[firedragon]

And I would not follow that if I was a muslim.

It means god didnt know the errors in the previous text he used, making the same mistakes as Jewish and Christian mortal men. :yes:

I would just say a scribe plagiarised and remain historically credible.

Actually I knew where you were going in the first instant you responded.

Anyway, why did not Muhammed copy that Solomon had 900 women? Why did not he copy that the earth was flat? Why are every single story different?

Also how did he manage to copy from the bible and maintain records of certain numbers of words? e.g. word Yawm, word for day is cited exactly 365 times. Word for month mentioned 12 times each. Word for man and woman mentioned 24 times each.

Alright, before why, I would like to know your idea of errors that God dictated.

 

[paarsurrey]

I perfectly understand your point and it is fair. But this question is from your point of view, either a Christian or Jew who thinks that, or an atheist who does not believe in God and so on.

If God exists, there is one God.

My father tells my elder brother a story and same story to me years later, that does not mean I plagiarised from my brother.

Peace.

You have made a good point.

G-d conversed with Moses and told certain things to Moses. The original source is G-d, not Moses.

Later when the narrators/scribes/ Jewish clergy corrupted what the original source had revealed to Moses; the original source revealed to Muhammad again the message.

Moses should be grateful to Muhammad that Muhammad refreshed the message getting again from the original source or G-d.

Quran is neither a literal copy of Torah (written or verbal) nor it is influenced from it.

I really appreciate it.

I think our friend from Harvard is free to understand it, if one may; no compulsion however.

Thanks and regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Great story. It is not plagiarised because you claim the source and are passing it on.


Do your books claim they used Judaism and Christianity and changed it to meet their cultural needs? or do they claim god himself wrote them?



The only reason I am militant on this topic is because of OP's tactics in other threads. I normally dont care one way or the other. I have family in it. But they dont act like OP either.

To correct one here; G-d verbally revealed Citation/Quran on Muhammad and Muhammad committed it to his memory and from him his companions and Muhammad also dictated it the scribes for further preservation.

So Quran is authored by the One-True-God, Allah, without any literal copying it from Torah (written or verbal) or having been influenced from it in any way, whatsoever.

No harm if the Harvard Professors and their students note it; no compulsion however and whatsoever.

Regards

 

[Sleeppy]

You have made a good point.

G-d conversed with Moses and told certain things to Moses. The original source is G-d, not Moses.

Later when the narrators/scribes/ Jewish clergy corrupted what the original source had revealed to Moses; the original source revealed to Muhammad again the message.

Moses should be grateful to Muhammad that Muhammad refreshed the message getting again from the original source or G-d.

Quran is neither a literal copy of Torah (written or verbal) nor it is influenced from it.

I really appreciate it.

I think our friend from Harvard is free to understand it, if one may; no compulsion however.

Thanks and regards

How do you know if God spoke to Moses? Is this because it was written in the Quran? Do you believe everything the Quran says?

 

[paarsurrey]

Thats a good question, and only with study can that be determined.

The same question can be asked of every religion and every single religious book.


The Israelites did the same to the Canaanite and Mesopotamian religions
The chrsitians did it to Jews
And islam did it to both.

These are facts brother.

And we afford one that opportunity; we have given two complete chapters from Quran; so one could not find anything in them that have been literally copied from Torah ( written or oral); and nothing in them has any trace of being influenced from Torah ( written or oral).

Hence we can fairly conclude from the above exercise that Quran is 0 % copied from Torah ( written or oral) literally; and nothing in them has any trace of being influenced from Torah ( written or oral).

One is under no compulsion to accept that; one could differ with it with reasons.

Regards

 

[firedragon]

How do you know if God spoke to Moses? Is this because it was written in the Quran? Do you believe everything the Quran says?

Is that even a question brother? Let me! Of course he does.

I know what you plan to do now. You will post some verse from the Quran and try to show that its nonsensical or something and say do you believe this too. Well, maybe not either. But it is plain you are not just asking that out of question as a question to explore what someone is thinking.

Why dont you do what you plan to do in the same post rather than asking one question and using debating or trapping techniques on people.

Dont get offended. Take it as a request if you may.

Peace.

 

[paarsurrey]

How do you know if God spoke to Moses? Is this because it was written in the Quran? Do you believe everything the Quran says?

Quran does not claim to be a text book of science or history.

Quran has been revealed for the ethical, moral and spiritual understanding of man.

Everything mentioned in Quran pertaining to ethical, moral and spiritual realms if correctly understood is beyond doubt correct unless it is proved wrong with concrete/solid evidences and proofs.

Regards

 

[outhouse]

Alright, before why, I would like to know your idea of errors that God dictated.

Your book follows previous mythology as literal history.

A god would know better.


This is a fact, Abraham and family, moses, noah, have no historicity as written.

They are viewed as lterary creations by the majority of all unbiased credible historians.

While there could be a historical core, that possibility would factually never be the literary creation we all know.

Case in point, noah is factually a character plagiarized by Israelites.

Then plagiarized by islam

The historical core lies in a regional flood of the Euphrates in 2900 BC. As written it is mythology in all abrahamic traditions.

Sumerian
Akkadian
Mesopotamian
Israelite
islam

In that orders follows this mythology.

 

[outhouse]

Quran does not claim to be a text book of science or history.

To bad it makes historical claims, in error.

 

[Sleeppy]

Quran does not claim to be a text book of science or history.

Quran has been revealed for the ethical, moral and spiritual understanding of man.

Everything mentioned in Quran pertaining to ethical, moral and spiritual realms if correctly understood is beyond doubt correct unless it is proved wrong with concrete/solid evidences and proofs.

Regards

If you're using the Quran to better your life ethically and spiritually, I have no problem with this.. But we shouldn't believe everything we hear, or read; we need to validate everything. If you validate what you read, and what you hear, we are in agreement. I believe God's will is not subverted in any way, so to say God spoke only to Moses, or only to Muhammed, or only to Jesus is idolatry. God does not need to speak. God's creations are in submission, from birth, to death, and beyond death. His creation is not able to overcome Him-- but many teachers, prophets, and religions have believed this, being ignorant.

 

[firedragon]

Your book follows previous mythology as literal history.

A god would know better.


This is a fact, Abraham and family, moses, noah, have no historicity as written.

They are viewed as lterary creations by the majority of all unbiased credible historians.

While there could be a historical core, that possibility would factually never be the literary creation we all know.

Case in point, noah is factually a character plagiarized by Israelites.

Then plagiarized by islam

The historical core lies in a regional flood of the Euphrates in 2900 BC. As written it is mythology in all abrahamic traditions.

Sumerian
Akkadian
Mesopotamian
Israelite
islam

In that orders follows this mythology.

Yep I've heard this. I knew that was coming.

 

[outhouse]

Yep I've heard this. I knew that was coming.

Wonderful.

Its best just to remain with integrity and credibility and admit history is what it is.


All religious books used cirular thinking, because they did not know the could be proved false in future times.

fact is I know more about history then your authors did. Since they were not writing history, they did not care about its accuracy.

 

[outhouse]

If you're using the Quran to better your life ethically and spiritually, I have no problem with this.. But we shouldn't believe everything we hear, or read; we need to validate everything..

Frubals.

Yes taking all religious books into context is key.


Perverting history or science by a literal following is a disgrace to the epic beauty in all 3 religious books.

 

[paarsurrey]

If you're using the Quran to better your life ethically and spiritually, I have no problem with this.. But we shouldn't believe everything we hear, or read; we need to validate everything. If you validate what you read, and what you hear, we are in agreement. I believe God's will is not subverted in any way, so to say God spoke only to Moses, or only to Muhammed, or only to Jesus is idolatry. God does not need to speak. God's creations are in submission, from birth, to death, and beyond death. His creation is not able to overcome Him-- but many teachers, prophets, and religions have believed this, being ignorant.

That is what Quran claims in the very beginning of it. Chapter One from Quran I have already quoted in this thread.

In the beginning of the Second Chapter Quran mentions its purpose which is nothing but ethical, moral and spiritual guidance:

[2:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[2:2] Alif Lam Mim.
[2:3] This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous*,

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

*the Arabic word muttaqeen has been translated here as righteous; its other meanings could be one who is eagerly and sincerely in search of truth; or seeker after truth.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

If you're using the Quran to better your life ethically and spiritually, I have no problem with this.. But we shouldn't believe everything we hear, or read; we need to validate everything. If you validate what you read, and what you hear, we are in agreement. I believe God's will is not subverted in any way, so to say God spoke only to Moses, or only to Muhammed, or only to Jesus is idolatry. God does not need to speak. God's creations are in submission, from birth, to death, and beyond death. His creation is not able to overcome Him-- but many teachers, prophets, and religions have believed this, being ignorant.

There is no restriction on G-d; he did speak to truthful Buddha, Krishna,Zoroaster,Moses,Socrates, Jesus,Muhammad and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad etc , etc.

Regards

 

[firedragon]

Wonderful.

Its best just to remain with integrity and credibility and admit history is what it is.


All religious books used cirular thinking, because they did not know the could be proved false in future times.

fact is I know more about history then your authors did. Since they were not writing history, they did not care about its accuracy.

Brother, I dont agree with you. I simply withdraw because the concept of Mythology cannot be proven, it is a theory, while I cant prove the existence of a person called Moses in history with archaeological evidence.

But I can say this. The Quran records of Haamaan who is pharaohs associate. Haamaan was not know to have existed until the 18th century. And he is not mentioned in the bible together with Pharaoh. And Haamaan and Pharaoh are both associated with Moses. If you believe that it is peculiar and a curiosity raising point "How did Haman get into the Quran when no one knew of his existence until 16 centuries later", then explore it and see what make of it.

Peace.