Breast implants: For or against

[Skwim]

Please people. This is a family forum

 

[Songbird]

I'm not proud of myself for that...

You should be, my friend, you should be.

 

[Songbird]

Please people. This is a family forum

Is that a plaid bra?

I love your edits.

 

[ninerbuff]

I find it hard to believe that your scenario of some women humiliating others for having peaches instead
of melons actually exists outside of your imagination. You say you have research...let's see some links.

Don't count on "real" evidence Rev. When he posts research, he totally exaggerates what the author's findings and studies report.
A great example is of the report that he stated that "male dominated" commercials showing women, with the NFL and beer commercials being the worst, degrading them. NOWHERE in the report did it mention the NFL or beer commercials as being the worst. He DECIDED that it would good to put that in himself.
When I called him on it, he decided that I was no longer worth debating with and has ignored any posts since then. Of course when someone get's pwned like that, the easiest way to "bow out" is to claim that an opposing view should be ignored.

 

[trdash]

I disagree. I think you're comparing breast implants with sexual objectification of women in the same way that porn is demonized as the cause of sexual objectification. .

One can choose not to be humiliated. One can still choose to value herself and her goodies as da bomb regardless of what anybody else thinks. Please stop trying to protect the archetypal "poor defenseless weak and fragile female." We don't need it.

And besides, what if another woman wants to be assaulted by my breastesses? :rainbow1:

Mystic & Rev:

In regard to connecting ideology and flaunting I think where we are having a difference of opinion rests in how we are defining flaunting. Again, flaunting usually means to parade, to display ostentatiously or impudently, or to flutter showingly. It is to display oneself in a way that is higher than others. Sexual flaunting is communicating one is better than others because of their sexual attributes (such as having larger breasts), with a sense of public humiliation. NO ONE CSAN SHINE from such experiences because it’s about brining other people down to underscore one’s perceived superiority. Flaunting is not self confidence or fun flirting or good natured teasing.

Let me provide two real life examples. I hesitate to share these because I do not want you to get the expression I support the activity context they are involved in – a wet T-shirt contest and a penis size contest. I was involved in both of these events, like 15-20 years ago, and I see nothing good in them, but the examples serve the purpose of defining the harm that occurs with flaunting.

So, many years ago I was at a bar with a wet t-shirt contest. A group of 5-6 ladies – who all looked like friends sitting around the same table – all entered. The woman with the largest breasts (without doubt, the largest) was clearly the crowds delight (men, of course). The woman with the smallest breasts, stole the stage by flashing to the audience and then challenged the other women – especially the woman with the larger breast to do the same. The larger breasted woman declined. On stage, and afterwards, these women had a good laugh and were clearly friends, sitting together afterwards having a good time. Although I now see such activities as self sexual objecting and see them as not beneficial in life or to female credibility, this is not flaunting.

The other story happened many years ago at a fraternity party. A group of about a dozen men decided to measure up and the guy who was the smallest was deeply embarrassed (and he was quite small). The sad part was how the other men were showing off at his expense -- it was clearly humiliation. Then, the nick names continued (pinkie) until this poor guy final moved out of the fraternity house. This is flaunting, and its damage is as real as being physically beaten in front of other, because it is an emotional beating. And for the record, I regret being part of this event.

My point is this – flaunting is equal to the physical abuse of beating another person, its emotional abuse. The lines between these two real events in clear in my accounts, but those lines can also be quite blurred in other areas. So, if you are out in the community truly trying to flaunt your stuff, you are harming others. Your intention may not be to harm others, but you are.

My other point is this Mystic, there is a good line of research that does outline that going good things for others – shrinking our own self to give the spotlight to another – does help people to feel good. You might think this is being a puritan, but I am referring to academic studies, and some of the academics like Dr. Seligman or Dr. Kingwell are not practicing Christians, in fact, they even wonder if Christianity exists.

Mystic, in connecting you view about pornography (post 336) and the quotation above about women wanting be to assaulted by your breastesse, the topic can be quite complex. At the end of the day, personal choice is vital, but even personal choice can be complex. Let me give you an example. A number of years ago a Dr. Ross and a group of psychiatrist published a study in the journal called “Hospital and Community Psychiatry” ( 1990, volume 41, pages 328-330)in which psychiatric medical staff interviewed exotic dancers. In this study, 35 percent of exotic dancers struggled with multiple personality disorders, 55 percent experience borderline personality disorders, 60 percent suffer depression and 40 percent struggle with substance abuse. Furthermore, 65 percent of exotic dancers had been sexually abused. Worse these women were using pornography and exotic dancing as an unhealthy way of coping their their past sexual abuses – they were simlatinuosly sexual objectifying themselves and others (men in the audience) as a way of dealing with past abuses. So, in a very real sense, these people have choice but their choices are a reflection of past abuse. When we watch pornogrpahy, we support sexual abuse and sexual objectification.

Perhaps I am going overboard on this website and perhaps it’s my time to move along to other posts/websites, but my point is this: (1) women are still socialized to see so much of their worth via breast size, and (2) it’s the sexual objefification of women which leads them to record numbers toward breast implants. How sad, that so many women today are no different than the women of yesteryear that in many ways still have to wear corsets – but the suitors of today are plastic surgeons.

 

[ninerbuff]

Perhaps I am going overboard on this website and perhaps it’s my time to move along to other posts/websites, but my point is this: (1) women are still socialized to see so much of their worth via breast size

Your sources say otherwise and that it's weight, media, and Hollywood with whom they compare with.

(2) it’s the sexual objefification of women which leads them to record numbers toward breast implants. How sad, that so many women today are no different than the women of yesteryear that in many ways still have to wear corsets – but the suitors of today are plastic surgeons.

Skewed numbers. You don't relate what those record numbers reflect. How many were reconstructive? How many were for women who already had big breasts just wanted them "lifted"? What is the comparison for those who do it for sexual objectification and those who do it to because "they feel" it will round out their personal physiques? How many were lesbians?
You refuse to answer anyone's questions head on and don't supply enough research to back your own personal opinion.
So yes, move along...............

 

[trdash]

Perhaps right at the very beginning I should have posted this link. See below. I think this Wikipedia account does a good job of explaining what I have been arguing, which connects sexual objectification with breast implants.

Sexual objectification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This website also outlines male sexual objectification (such as beefcake calendars and CFNM events) and its harm, along with the problems of pornography and sexual objectification.

Again, I do not oppose reconstructive surgery (in fact I advocate it) and have no problems with women with larger breasts. In fact, I think women with larger breasts may have a more difficult in life than women with smaller breasts because of how men treat women (e.g., being sexually objectified, women self objectifying themselves because they are larger). (And I would argue the same – and perhaps it is even worse, related to men who are larger between the legs). It is the act of getting breast implants so that a woman can feel more credible and feminine that I oppose and the men and women who advocate this.

 

[ninerbuff]

Perhaps right at the very beginning I should have posted this link. See below. I think this Wikipedia account does a good job of explaining what I have been arguing, which connects sexual objectification with breast implants.

Sexual objectification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This website also outlines male sexual objectification (such as beefcake calendars and CFNM events) and its harm, along with the problems of pornography and sexual objectification.

Again, I do not oppose reconstructive surgery (in fact I advocate it) and have no problems with women with larger breasts. In fact, I think women with larger breasts may have a more difficult in life than women with smaller breasts because of how men treat women (e.g., being sexually objectified, women self objectifying themselves because they are larger). (And I would argue the same – and perhaps it is even worse, related to men who are larger between the legs). It is the act of getting breast implants so that a woman can feel more credible and feminine that I oppose and the men and women who advocate this.

Objectification is an attitude that regards a person as a commodity or as an object for use, with insufficient regard for a person's personality or sentience.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification#cite_note-Bartky-0


Hope that clears that up. It's been stated here by many that their "attitudes" about big breasts have nothing to do with people being used as a commodity. It's just a PREFERENCE.

Now please quit trying to insult us here and trying to make those of us here that enjoy big breasts as being "selfish, hurtful, harming" individuals. Change your attitude, dude.

 

[Skwim]

Is that a plaid bra?

Yup. It's the outdoor look that's now all the rage among the more stylish bovines.

I love your edits.

Thanks. They give me something to occupy my hands while I watch mindless TV.

 

[trdash]

Heh. I cannot remember the title, but there was some hoopla over a movie starring Colin Farrel that featured him in a full frontal nude scene.

Apparently, he's packin' some serious heat. Either that, or they enhanced things for the camera. Anywho, it was reported (I was not there) that several men objected to this scene. They put up such a fuss, it was said to have been cut from the movie completely.

I don't know if it was in fact cut, but I found the idea of guys being ruffled by it quite funny. Welcome to our world, boys.

I think we ladies should start a restaurant chain called "Wieners". Nah...that doesn't sound manly enough. I'd have to think about this a bit more. It would of course feature male servers who share a certain characteristic.

And hot wings.

Perhaps the issue at hand that I outlined in the very first post has run its course.

I agree with many of you who have suggested that the sexual objectification of women is a problem that is located in many societal locations (e.g., the media, advertising) – but I am still convinced one of the worst and serious aspect of the sexual objectification of women (and the serious health consequences that follow) is the everyday-to-day contact of men who promote the view that larger breasts are better. Men hanging out at Hooter’s restaurant! If I go back to the discussion captured in post 231-281, I am not convinced that merely stating that men have personality taints, preferences, natural tendencies and so forth to be attracted to larger breasts is a good explanation for the harm that such “personality traits”, “preferences”, and “natural tendencies” cause. I think most people can explain away what they see on TV and advertising as digital manipulation/airbrushing, fake images and so forth, but there is something very powerful in watching real men in real life who prefer larger breasts over smaller one. This harms all women, whether they are larger or smaller on top. This is the most paramount factor, along with the other factors, that creates the sexual objectification of women. And it’s a male disease.

With this said, and because I think this post is dead in that it is becoming circular, I am curious about what people think about whether the sexual objectification of men can be used to help men realize how damaging the sexual objectification of women is? If you go to the Wikipedia link I provided in post 388, under the heading “Sexual objectification of men” it outlines that there are some women who are trying to reverse the table on men and sexual objectify them. Although it does not state this in the Wikipedia link, I have heard female conversation (e.g. written, face to face) where some women think that if men become sexually objectified, that it might cause them to understand what women go through, and perhaps change. As the Wikipedia source states, there is research that male sexual objectification causes the same results – a deterioration of mental/emotional health.

I know Anne was just joking in this post from long ago quoted above, but I have this emotional view that sometimes rises in me that I would like more and more men – especially those that sexually objectify women – to learn what is like to be judged by body size features and to learn firsthand what it feels like to constantly be sexually objectified. So, a restaurant that parallels Hooters called something like “wieners, sausages, and bratwursts” might be a good thing. Yet, my rationale mind tells me that two wrong never make a right and men – because they are much less emotionally developed then women – would be more emotionally damaged than women -- thus it should not occur.

But I am curious what others think?

 

[Revoltingest]

I know Anne was just joking in this post from long ago quoted above, but I have this emotional view that sometimes rises in me that I would like more and more men....

Hah! I knew it!
For your viewing (& objectification) pleasure......a whole lotta mens.....

[youtube]u-n9Zdf19-c[/youtube]
YouTube - ‪It's Raining Men.‬‏

Of course, you know I'm jess joshing ya.
(I think Ninerbuff is one of the hunks in this mucho macho montage.)

 

[Revoltingest]

I think the youtube clip below about the remora fish is more fitting for ninerbuff. The remora fish simply attaches to sharks, follow them everywhere they go and eat the left over fragements of what a shark attacks (and when very hungry and desperate will eat the shark’s feces).

Sounds like Ninerbuff

In all serious Rev, what are your thoughts about the sexual objectification of men? Can it help men gain empathy toward the sexual objectification of women, or will it make the overall sexual objectification of people worse? Of course, I am interested in other people thoughts about this also.

I'm OK with men being objectified. We can take it....especially if it's done by hot women.

 

[Penumbra]

MOD Post

Please refrain from personal insults. This includes talking about various members in the third person negatively. This is the first rule of the forum.

Rule 1:
Personal attacks are strictly prohibited either on the forums or by private messaging, frubal comments, signature lines and visitor messages. Critique each other's ideas all you want, but under no circumstances personally attack each other or the staff.

​

 

[trdash]

Sounds like Ninerbuff

I'm OK with men being objectified. We can take it....especially if it's done by hot women.

But Rev, do you think it can help men gain empathy toward the harm of sexual objectification or will it make sexual objectfication become even more pervasive?

 

[ninerbuff]

But Rev, do you think it can help men gain empathy toward the harm of sexual objectification or will it make sexual objectfication become even more pervasive?

You don't get it. Any male or female would want sexual objectification from people they are attracted to even if it's someone they don't know. It's the ones that they aren't interested in or attracted to that they don't want it from. That's why people oogle, flirt, and dress up.

 

[Adramelek]

I am a lover of female breasts in there natural state. I like them small and I like them big, but not too big. I once went out with this woman who had natural and abmormally large breasts (F-cup) way to big for me. I prefer the soft succulence and feel of natural breasts. Breast implants are a turn off to me. I love percky nipples too.

 

[Revoltingest]

But Rev, do you think it can help men gain empathy toward the harm of sexual objectification or will it make sexual objectfication become even more pervasive?

I just don't see the harm that you do for the general level of objectification we have.

 

[trdash]

I just don't see the harm that you do for the general level of objectification we have.

Rev:

That might be because we are attaching different definition. I have no problem with normative flirting and so forth. Sexual ojectification is when a person is truely rendered into an object and the person's only worth is their sexual attributes -- others see no other worth.

 

[Revoltingest]

That might be because we are attaching different definition. I have no problem with normative flirting and so forth. Sexual ojectification is when a person is truely rendered into an object and the person's only worth is their sexual attributes -- others see no other worth.

My criteria for what constitutes objectification aren't nearly as broad as yours.
Boob jobs don't measure up. Hmmm....somehow, that sounds wrong.

 

[trdash]

My criteria for what constitutes objectification aren't nearly as broad as yours.
Boob jobs don't measure up. Hmmm....somehow, that sounds wrong.

Rev:

That is where we have an honest disagreement. To me, the act of going for breast implants so that a woman's breast are larger and more attractive (not reconstrative) is an act of self sexual objecfitication. In essence, such women communicate that their worth is located via breast size and shape.