Gun Control: Does Owning Guns make some people feel Special?

[Gunfingers]

Pepper spray is a pretty hit-or-miss tool. I've actually been tear gassed (a similar chemical) and while the effect is extremely uncomfortable it is not incapacitating. A TASER will be incapacitating, if used properly, however the either require up-close use, or the ranged version which is inaccurate and cannot penetrate thick clothing. Either of these tool is better than nothing, but i would not want to restict anyone to them.

I used to do karate pretty regularly, and i'm pretty confident i could take the average guy in a fight, but i am less confident i could take three gangbangers trying to start **** in a parking lot at night. I've never been in that scenario, but my friends and i were once mistaken for it. Funny story.

Now, firearms are not a panacea either. There are scenarios where drawing a weapon would be unwise, but the thousands of people who use firearms to defend themselves every year would probably be more than happy to attest to their efficacy, which extends to scenarios where less-lethal weapons would not necessarily be effective.

 

[methylatedghosts]

I carry pepper spray and have taken self defense courses (Krav and Impact). Without question, it's an improvement, but it doesn't level the playing field the way a gun would.

A little curious how a gun *levels* a playing field..

I wouldn't be to concerned about having a level playing field as I would be about me winning and being able to get away

Having said that though... the only gun I'd own is a .22 or a shotgun that I'd use to get rid of rabbits and possums. Keeping em outside of a cabinet is just asking for an intruder to find em and use them on you before you wake up and hear anything lol.

Iunno... I can't imagine that it'd be likely in any way that I'd find myself in a situation where I actually would need a gun for self-preservation. The whole scenario is a bit out of my world lol - I just feel too safe here. Our back door is always unlocked and open, we leave windows open when we leave, our front door is generally open during the day... living in a place where I might need a gun seems highly, highly unattractive.

 

[Oberon]

A little curious how a gun *levels* a playing field..

In hand-to-hand combat (either unarmed or with knives or something similar), strength matters. If you are using pepper spray or other non-lethal weapons, you stand a good chance of having to use strength as well. It takes little strength to pull a trigger.

I wouldn't be to concerned about having a level playing field as I would be about me winning and being able to get away

That's why levelling the playing field is important.

 

[darkendless]

It's really not. It's unrealistic to expect the police to be available to prevent a crime. They can't be on every street, and if they were we'd be verging on a police state and worse off than we were before. Police exist to apprehend criminals after the fact, but in terms of crime prevention you're more-or-less on your own.

Guns don't solve problems, they create more. I don't live in a police state and i don't own guns, yet if i were to use my sword collection on someone breaking into my house, i'd get in more trouble than them for using "self defence." Imagine if i killed someone who broke into my home, in Aus i'd get done for murder even though they shouldn't have been in my house.

The most common reason for people to hate weapons is because they don't understand them. The fact that you don't know what semi-automatic means (hint: the sidearm carried by most cops will be semi-automatic, as is virtually every modern firearm) is kind of telling.

I don't hate weapons, but having a weapon more powerful than a cop is kind of a waste of time.

Things that kill more people annually than firearms include cars, cigarettes, and home swimming pools, to name a few. Yes, accidents happen, but as long as you handle your weapon responsibly the actual risk is negligible.

Not everyone is as responsible as you.

Or not. Weapons aren't for everyone, and no one is trying to force you to buy one.

I know, i just love seeing Yanks try and make themselves look like they need guns. I wonder how much armed assault would decrease over there if common people could not get guns quite so easily?

Its not a level playing field here because cops have guns, 99% of criminals don't. Over there, what's stopping a criminal acquiring a M-16 or any other high powered weapon. Allowing everyone to have guns level's the playing field which is quite counter-productive.

Then again, you're all so much safer because you have a gun

 

[darkendless]

So if a women finds herself cornered in some dark back alley by an assailant, she can contact the police instantaneously via telepathy, who will then immediately teleport to the location to save the day?

If the woman is cornered by say 2 men, and she has a gun, the chances of them having a gun is equal. Then, if she pulls out a gun, they pull out guns. Round in circles we go only increasing the deadliness of the weapon.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not a fan of guns, I'm a blade person But I don't think we should ban them or anything. It's like anything else, use it responsibly (responsibility includes waiting periods IMO, and just general safety) and there should be no problem.. just don't expect me to like them or be excited when you want to show me the newest addition to your collection.

I carry a concealed handgun (Glock #22) & a blade (Superknife 2) daily. The handgun is for self-defense, while the blade is for recycling boxes. Each does its job well, but they're not interchangeable. I'm a gun rights fan, but I also favor more training requirements for ownership & carry.

 

[fallingblood]

If the woman is cornered by say 2 men, and she has a gun, the chances of them having a gun is equal. Then, if she pulls out a gun, they pull out guns. Round in circles we go only increasing the deadliness of the weapon.

Not necessarily. Most criminals are opportunists. That woman pulls out a gun, or if they suspect that she has a gun, the most likely outcome is that they will leave and find a better victim. Most crime is based on weighing the risks and the payoff. A gun usually pushes the scales too far over to the risk side.

 

[darkendless]

Not necessarily. Most criminals are opportunists. That woman pulls out a gun, or if they suspect that she has a gun, the most likely outcome is that they will leave and find a better victim. Most crime is based on weighing the risks and the payoff. A gun usually pushes the scales too far over to the risk side.

Exactly, if she shoots one of them, and they're not armed, won't she be charged more severely than them even though she is "defending" herself?

 

[Oberon]

Guns don't solve problems, they create more.

I don't think so. People will kill other people with just about anything. The problem, in my view, is criminal possession of guns. Now, one could make the argument that making guns illegal is the best way to stop criminal possession. They tried that in the US with alcohol. Welcome to the rapid growth of organized crime.

I don't hate weapons, but having a weapon more powerful than a cop is kind of a waste of time.

How is that remotely logical? Unless you have your own personal police protective duty, if you want to protect yourself, you can't depend on police.

I know, i just love seeing Yanks try and make themselves look like they need guns. I wonder how much armed assault would decrease over there if common people could not get guns quite so easily?

Generally speaking, there isn't much of a correlation between gun laws and low crime. In fact, several studies (Lott's spring's to mind as one of the most thorough) show an increase in violent crime correlated with gun laws. People stab other people beat other people, and get guns illegally. The problem with the US is not that guns are readily available, but that it is a more violent culture in general than many or most places in europe and elsewhere.

Its not a level playing field here because cops have guns, 99% of criminals don't. Over there, what's stopping a criminal acquiring a M-16 or any other high powered weapon.

It's illegal. Unless you are a criminal looking for an assault rifle with no criminal record. That does happen occasionally, but almost exclusively when the shooter is going to kill themselves. Most of the criminals with assualt rifles or submachine guns got them illegally.

If the woman is cornered by say 2 men, and she has a gun, the chances of them having a gun is equal. Then, if she pulls out a gun, they pull out guns. Round in circles we go only increasing the deadliness of the weapon.

1) If anyone is cornered by people with guns, they pull them first, unless they aren't intending any criminal action anyway
2) The chances aren't equal at all. It is illegal for anyone with a criminal record to own a gun.

Exactly, if she shoots one of them, and they're not armed, won't she be charged more severely than them even though she is "defending" herself?

Not necessarily at all. I live in Massachusetts, the state in the US with about the most weapons laws anywhere. It is illegal in our capitol city to carry a knife larger than 2.5 inches. It is illegal to own a stun gun, and you need a permit to obtain pepper spray. However, if a woman kills two men attacking her, and she can convince a prosecutor that she feared for her life, she may not be charged at all, let alone convicted.

 

[Apollonius Zagreus]

Those who hail victors in war celebrate the slaughter of men - Confucius (paraphrased). Indeed, the bearing of arms is a supreme act of cowardice in that a brave man faces his enemies without need for weapons, .. accepting truth as his only defense.

 

[Oberon]

Those who hail victors in war celebrate the slaughter of men - Confucius (paraphrased). Indeed, the bearing of arms is a supreme act of cowardice in that a brave man faces his enemies without need for weapons, .. accepting truth as his only defense.

Have you ever faced someone who wanted to kill you or seriously hurt you?

 

[Apollonius Zagreus]

Have you ever faced someone who wanted to kill you or seriously hurt you?

I have been stabbed twice.

 

[Oberon]

I have been stabbed twice.

Apparently truth didn't work.

 

[Apollonius Zagreus]

Apparently truth didn't work.

Perhaps, but it did preserve me.

 

[darkendless]

I don't think so. People will kill other people with just about anything. The problem, in my view, is criminal possession of guns. Now, one could make the argument that making guns illegal is the best way to stop criminal possession. They tried that in the US with alcohol. Welcome to the rapid growth of organized crime.

Over here guns are illegal, a small percentage of people are able to obtain them, but most of the time, its not high powered rifles or sub-machine guns because they're simply not avaliable without months of government checks the mandate of an approved gun safe. My dad when he was in the states earlier this year was horrified about going into a gun store and seeing what can be purchased over the counter.

I guess my main issue with this is why would people need high powered rifles? Why would a US citizen need an AK-47? If they need a gun for defence whats wrong with a handgun?

How is that remotely logical? Unless you have your own personal police protective duty, if you want to protect yourself, you can't depend on police.

In a safe environment why would you need to protect yourself? I go running at all hours of the day and night and have never been set upon and i'm a soft target, unarmed, alone and carrying a free phone for anyone who wants it enough to take it. To me it feels like Americans live in such a state of fear that almost mandates having a gun. To me its so strange.

Generally speaking, there isn't much of a correlation between gun laws and low crime. In fact, several studies (Lott's spring's to mind as one of the most thorough) show an increase in violent crime correlated with gun laws. People stab other people beat other people, and get guns illegally. The problem with the US is not that guns are readily available, but that it is a more violent culture in general than many or most places in europe and elsewhere.

That i agree with.

It's illegal. Unless you are a criminal looking for an assault rifle with no criminal record. That does happen occasionally, but almost exclusively when the shooter is going to kill themselves. Most of the criminals with assualt rifles or submachine guns got them illegally.

I guess but wouldn't it be easier in the US to get guns considering they're so easy to source, they're everywhere?

1) If anyone is cornered by people with guns, they pull them first, unless they aren't intending any criminal action anyway
2) The chances aren't equal at all. It is illegal for anyone with a criminal record to own a gun.

Criminal records don't stop people getting guns, and with such a market in the USA, it wouldn't be that hard to get one.

Not necessarily at all. I live in Massachusetts, the state in the US with about the most weapons laws anywhere. It is illegal in our capitol city to carry a knife larger than 2.5 inches. It is illegal to own a stun gun, and you need a permit to obtain pepper spray. However, if a woman kills two men attacking her, and she can convince a prosecutor that she feared for her life, she may not be charged at all, let alone convicted.

I don't even know what to say to that. In a modern society there is no need for death because a woman "feared for her life."

 

[Oberon]

Over here guns are illegal, a small percentage of people are able to obtain them, but most of the time, its not high powered rifles or sub-machine guns because they're simply not avaliable without months of government checks the mandate of an approved gun safe. My dad when he was in the states earlier this year was horrified about going into a gun store and seeing what can be purchased over the counter.

You need a federal license (which is almost impossible to obtain, and I don't know anybody who got one who didn't work for either law enforcement or the federal government in some special capacity) to own a sub machine gun here. Or you can get one illegally as a criminal.

I guess my main issue with this is why would people need high powered rifles? Why would a US citizen need an AK-47? If they need a gun for defence whats wrong with a handgun?

1) You can't get a real AK-47 here legally, as they are fully automatic and any fully automatic weapon requires a federal license.
2) Handguns are pretty terrible defense weapons. They are used as such because you can't carry around a shotgun or rifle. In your home, the best weapon is a long weapon.

In a safe environment why would you need to protect yourself?

You wouldn't. Not all environments are safe. There are several cities near me where it is impossible to get a license unless you are a police officer. Criminals, however, still get them, and they are dangerous places to be. And I live in the state with the strictest gun laws.

I guess but wouldn't it be easier in the US to get guns considering they're so easy to source, they're everywhere?

Not necessarily. It is true that as long as guns are legal at all, it is easier for criminals to find ways around the law to obtain them. However, alcohol was banned at the federal (country) level. It was illegal everywhere. People still got it. The same is true for drugs. They are illegal everywher, and people get them. Ban guns, and the criminals with connections will still get them. That's how they get fully automatic submachine guns like Uzi's.

Criminal records don't stop people getting guns, and with such a market in the USA, it wouldn't be that hard to get one.

Only if you get it illegally.

I don't even know what to say to that. In a modern society there is no need for death because a woman "feared for her life."

In any society people should be able to defend themselves when their lives are at risk. It doesn't take a gun to kill somebody. Personally, if two men are trying to rape a woman and she kills them to stop them, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[Comicaze247]

While I am unsure about whether or not guns should be banned (kind of on the fence about the subject), I do believe that they are far too easy for people to get. A gun could easily fall into the hands of a paranoid schizophrenic, or a sociopath with homicidal tendencies.

I think the most effective way to make sure that dangerous people don't (legally) get guns (without banning them entirely) is to require background checks as well as psychiatric evaluations.

And each time someone wished to purchase a gun, they would have to go through another background check and psychiatric evaluation, as a person's mood and demeanor can change over time, and they could have possibly committed a crime since the last time they had bought one.

 

[Oberon]

I think the most effective way to make sure that dangerous people don't (legally) get guns (without banning them entirely) is to require background checks as well as psychiatric evaluations.

Great idea, were it not for the extremely poor ability for psychologist or psychiatrists to accurately evaluate anyone who isn't completely or near-completely out of touch with reality. I do agree that something more than a background check is needed, but an evalutation doesn't cut it.

 

[Comicaze247]

Great idea, were it not for the extremely poor ability for psychologist or psychiatrists to accurately evaluate anyone who isn't completely or near-completely out of touch with reality. I do agree that something more than a background check is needed, but an evalutation doesn't cut it.

You must have met some bad psychologists/psychiatrists. Good psychologists/psychiatrists can see many underlying issues in a person within 5-10 minutes of talking.

Hell, I do that all the time reading some of the posts on here

 

[Walkntune]

While I am unsure about whether or not guns should be banned (kind of on the fence about the subject), I do believe that they are far too easy for people to get. A gun could easily fall into the hands of a paranoid schizophrenic, or a sociopath with homicidal tendencies.

These kind of guys usually like to use an axe in the movies I have seen.
Gun ban would have no effect but only make the killings far more gruesome.