Muslim Stagnation

[linwood]

Cordoba started a thread here...

Muslim Scientists: 1,000 Years Contribution

He`s taking a bit of grief over two facts:

1: Islam isn`t to be credited for discoveries made through scientific method.
2: Why so few Islamic discoveries/breakthroughs in the modern era?

The first one I don`t think is really fair.
I`d simply state in defense that while Islam itself didn`t directly bring forth these innovations it`s era of inception did seem to create an atmosphere of inquiry into all things.
That`s a good influence even if arbitrary.

The second one is the one I`d like someone with knowledge of and a broad understanding of Islamic cultures(not simply the religious influences on culture) to speak about.

Because Cordoba is right.
Islamic philosophers, mathematicians, and scientists did influence and discover much and discovered it early in mans beginnings.

I want to know what happened to hinder the enlightenment coming from the Islamic world in the modern era from a Muslim perspective.

 

[zenzero]

Friend linwood,

Agree that discoveries can never be attached with a religion.
They are just HUMAN discoveries besides discovery is like just being AWARE about a fact which earlier it was not there in human consciousness.
They are all about facts that were already here, existing since long but only humans became aware of them at a certain point.
Love & rgds

 

[gnostic]

They are just HUMAN discoveries besides discovery is like just being AWARE about a fact which earlier it was not there in human consciousness.

Yes.

Credits can go to Muslim scientists for their discoveries, but the same cannot be given to their scripture.

It was human achievement.

With the Qur'an, there's not a single explanation for many of the claims to today that would suggest that any passage. Nor is there any mathematical proof, to prove and validate the so-called scientific passages.

Now that they have ran out of discoveries, silly Muslims today make outrageous claims of scientific passages, where there are none.

 

[Watchmen]

Is anyone going to answer his actual question? I think it's a great one.

 

[kai]

Cordoba started a thread here...

Muslim Scientists: 1,000 Years Contribution

He`s taking a bit of grief over two facts:

1: Islam isn`t to be credited for discoveries made through scientific method.
2: Why so few Islamic discoveries/breakthroughs in the modern era?

The first one I don`t think is really fair.
I`d simply state in defense that while Islam itself didn`t directly bring forth these innovations it`s era of inception did seem to create an atmosphere of inquiry into all things.
That`s a good influence even if arbitrary.

The second one is the one I`d like someone with knowledge of and a broad understanding of Islamic cultures(not simply the religious influences on culture) to speak about.

Because Cordoba is right.
Islamic philosophers, mathematicians, and scientists did influence and discover much and discovered it early in mans beginnings.

I want to know what happened to hinder the enlightenment coming from the Islamic world in the modern era from a Muslim perspective.

Maybe the world just moved on? like it did with the Persians and Greeks,or Romans.

 

[neves]

Disintegration of Muslim Spain 1000-1030
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Islamic Spain was intellectually lively but politically chaotic
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Dictator Al-Mansur played off aristocracy, mercenary soldiers and slave bureaucracy against each other.
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]After his death, Spain collapsed into revolt and civil war, and fragmented into small states
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Advance of Christian Spain facilitated

Crusades
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Perception of Crusaders as uncivilized and inept
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Set stage for Turkish advance into Europe
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Reduced tolerance for Christianity
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Muslims started to mirror the barbaric acts of the crusaders instead of following teachings of Islam.

Mongol Conquests
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Sack of Baghdad destroyed the greatest remaining Islamic cultural center
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Death of Caliph a shattering blow to Islamic self-confidence
[FONT=&quot]
•[/FONT]Loss of Caliphate meant loss of unifying force in Islam

 

[gnostic]

By the time around 1500, the science in the Muslim world was in decline.

The Ottoman Empire may have been powerful, but they no longer produce any new discoveries. And around this time, Europe was going upward with their science with the Renaissance, consolidating what they know from Arabic science, and going beyond that.

[FONT="]•[/FONT]Muslims started to mirror the barbaric acts of the crusaders instead of following teachings of Islam.

Possibly true.

But you must remember that the Ottoman took Constantinople in 1453, and gain entry in Europe. They were in constant state of war in Central Europe, against the Austrian(-German) empire. The 16-17th centuries was the height of Ottoman Empire, but in the area of science the Muslim world have already started to stagnate, and continued to stagnate for the last 400 years.

Now, the Muslims reminisce a lot about the great discoveries from their past, instead of making new discoveries. There lies the problem with Islam. They have chained themselves to the past, instead of progressing forward.

 

[themadhair]

I think there is an anthropic element to the question posed in the OP. Discovery requires academic freedom. Unfortunately for some, academic freedom can lead to age-old tenets being challenged and refuted. In a situation where academic freedom and religious dogma collide there are two possible outcomes (not really but bear with me). Either academic freedom loses out or that dogma is forced to adapt.

The fact that the muslim dogma didn’t adapt leads to the OP asking the question.

 

[sandandfoam]

There was a programme on BBC (maybe Channel 4, but I think it was BBC) recently about modern science and Islam. They visited a lab. in Iran in one episode that is working on the type of stem cell research that seems to be quite controversial in the west, there was an Islamic scholar involved in the ethics committee but according to the program they seemed to be less constrained than they would in the UK.
If the name of the program comes to me I'll post it later.

 

[Sahar]

Is there a civilization that lasted forever?!

 

[Peace]

Dr. E. Marshall Johnson :
Dr Marshall Johnson is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Developmental Biology at Thomas Jefferson University , Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA . There, for 22 years he was Professor of Anatomy, the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy, and the Director of the Daniel Baugh Institute.

Professor Johnson said in the presentation of his research paper: “Summary: The Quran describes not only the development of external form, but emphasizes also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasizing major events recognized by contemporary science.”
Also he said: “As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Quran. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I knew today and describing things, I could not describe the things which were described. I see no evidence for the fact to refute the concept that this individual, Muhammad, had to be developing this information from some place. So I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write.”​

Dr. Marshall Johnson Explaining about the scientific facts in The Noble Quran​

 

[Peace]

Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore :
Professor Moore is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages.
This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person. Dr. Keith Moore is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto,

Toronto, Canada. There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy.
In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences.

Dr. Keith Moore Explaining about Embryo Stages Mentioned in the Quran (Part 1)​

 

[Peace]

God has supported his last prophet Muhammad (PBUH) with many miracles and much evidence which proves that he is a true prophet sent by God. Also, God has supported his last revealed book, The Noble Quran, with many miracles like the “human being developed in the mother's womb”, “human being’s unique finger prints, and described other many scientific facts.... that prove that this quran is the literal word of God, revealed by him, and that was not authored by any human being. The following are some of them...


THE NOBLE QURAN ON HUMAN EMBRYO

​

The third meaning of the word alaqah is “blood clot.” We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage is similar to that of a blood clot. This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage Also during this stage.....more



quranandscience.com

 

[themadhair]

2: Why so few Islamic discoveries/breakthroughs in the modern era?

Good question and I can present some evidence why this may be so. Consider the following post from Peace (extra red/underline emphasis added):

Professor Johnson said in the presentation of his research paper: “Summary: The Quran describes not only the development of external form, but emphasizes also the internal stages, the stages inside the embryo, of its creation and development, emphasizing major events recognized by contemporary science.”
Also he said: “As a scientist, I can only deal with things which I can specifically see. I can understand embryology and developmental biology. I can understand the words that are translated to me from the Quran. As I gave the example before, if I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I knew today and describing things, I could not describe the things which were described. I see no evidence for the fact to refute the concept that this individual, Muhammad, had to be developing this information from some place. So I see nothing here in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved in what he was able to write.”

This is a professor making the above comments. Now consider the following information (taken from TO) which anyone with access to the internet can verify:

The embryology expressed by the Qur'an follows the Greek knowledge of embryology prevalent at the time. The Qur'an refers to nutfah, which translates as "semen" and does not refer to both sperm and eggs as Moore proposes. Sura 86:6 says that the fluid issues from between the loins and ribs, not, as we know today, from the testicles. This reflects a mistaken view of Hippocrates, common in the 5th century, that semen comes from all the fluid of the body and passes through the kidneys on the way to the penis. Sura 23:12-14 says God created man from "wet earth, then placed him as (a drop of) sperm (nutfah) in a safe lodging; then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood (alaqa); then out of that clot We made a (foetus) lump (mudghah), then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then We developed out of it another creature." This account directly follows the four stages described by the Greek physician Galen, writing around 150 AD. The accuracies and inaccuracies both reflect Greek ideas of the time.

One of Mohammed's companions was the doctor Harith Ibn Kalada, who studied at the school of Jundishapur in Persia. He would have been well acquainted with the teachings of Aristotle, Hippocrates, and Galen.
CJ533: Qur'an on embryology.

Think about it. If a professor, at a proper university too might I add with access to the myriad of information within that university’s archives, can’t do the above research to test his belief regarding embryology in the koran it begs the question – what else is in the koran he won’t bring himself to do the research on?

 

[kai]

OH no not again!

 

[themadhair]

It was relevant to the OP gorammit.

 

[kai]

It was relevant to the OP gorammit.

so is my roundabout ,LoL please continue

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God has supported his last prophet Muhammad (PBUH) with many miracles and much evidence which proves that he is a true prophet sent by God. Also, God has supported his last revealed book, The Noble Quran, with many miracles like the “human being developed in the mother's womb”, “human being’s unique finger prints, and described other many scientific facts.... that prove that this quran is the literal word of God, revealed by him, and that was not authored by any human being. The following are some of them...

Your post really isn't relevant to the OP, except when it comes to one question it raises: if there are so many scientific facts in the Quran, then why did the Muslim world stagnate in the sciences the way it did?

I mean, look at the European Renaissance: one major cause of it was the reintroduction to Europe of Greek and Roman philosophical and scientific works that had been maintained and protected by the Muslim world. When given this knowledge, Europe's scientific development shot forward; Muslim nations had the same knowledge (in fact, the Europeans were often working from Arabic and Persian translations of those Greek and Roman writings, plus the later commentaries and new works of Muslim scientists and scholars), so why didn't they? If we take as given what you claim, i.e. that the Quran is chock-full of scientific knowledge, then doesn't this discrepancy between the East and the West make even less sense?

 

[Iman]

Why so few Islamic discoveries/breakthroughs in the modern era?

The Islamic Kaliphate or Empire, if you will, lasted tentatively until WWI with the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Of course in terms of science and the pursuit of worldly knowledge, the decline of the Muslim civilization occurred a couple of centuries prior. The reasons for the decline of their intellectual impact is similar to the reasons for the decline of their overall status as a world power. Inner disputes, greed, power struggles, and gradual erosion of concern for the interests and wellbeing of the Muslim nation as a whole. I can tell you what is NOT the reason for the decline of political and intellectual impact of the Muslims, their religion. Islam is the only religion that actually encouraged the pursuit of knowledge and never put limits on human achievement, hence the early recognition by Muslims of the cosmic facts that seemed revolutionary and heretic in the Christian West. I can also tell you that the Muslim civilization peaked while Muslims were closer to the spirit of Islam without being rigid or closed minded, and declined as Muslims strayed from the spirit of Islam while clininging to superficial religious facades. I see things changing in the right direction, however, and I hope that Islam in its true open minded and inclusive spirit will again be our rallying force.

 

[gnostic]

Is there a civilization that lasted forever?!

No empire last forever, but that's not in question is it?

The question is that Muslim scientists are no longer ahead of their time, and have not made any new and great scientific discoveries in the last several centuries.

The knowledge and application of optics which Muslim scientists have began, changed the way we can look at the sky, which also eventually daily use, like me wearing glasses, because I'm short-sighted.

The Muslim medical science also was very advanced back then, but that's clearly not the case now.

Past scientists should be praised and credited, but you can't just arrested on old laurels. The truth of the matter is Muslims have failed to continue their progress, because they keep looking backward instead of forward.

Have Islamic arts changed since 800-1300? The arts seemed to be stuck in the past. Don't get me wrong, I like Islamic arts, but you can only improve the same pattern over and over again. It's mastering old art, with no longer new innovation and creativity.

The science you see today belonged to the advancements made in the non-Muslim West and in the non-Muslim Far East.