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Are you saying that the only way Allah speaks to Muslims nowadays is through the quran/ayats (i.e. the written word), or do you believe Allah speaks to Muslims through direct revelation in some manner.
TashaN -”....the more we concentrate on the meanings of the Quran and have a genuine attempt to understand it, then Allah would open more doors of knowledge in our heart and make things clearer for us” - TashaN
The revelation" referenced in this ayat does NOT seem to refer to direct revelation given from Allah to the individual Muslim, but rather, it seems to refer to the revelation given from Allah to Mohammed (PBUH). Am I wrong in this assumption?"In time We shall make them fully understand Our messages [through what they perceive] in the utmost horizons [of the universe] and within them*selves, so that it will become clear unto them that this [revelation] is indeed the truth. [Still,] is it not enough [for them to know] that thy Sustainer is witness unto everything? (41:53 Asad)"
TashaN -
1) I believe that when we study ANY subject with genuine intent to gain understanding, things are made somewhat clearer to us. (whether we ever understand it well is a different matter). This is also true of the athiests as it is of the believers.
What I am trying to understand is whether Muslims believe that Allah gives personal and direct revelation to Muslims.
Does Islam claim to have this sort of inspiration from Allah or does the Muslim believe that only the reading of inspired words themselves work upon the mind of believers?
When you had your enlightment as a Muslim, reading the Quran, are you claiming it is direct communication from Allah or from his Holy Spirit that was apart from reading the printed word?
Perhaps it is I who have not been clear. Do you understand what it is I am asking in this line of questioning?
2) Nehustan quoted another Ayat as follows:
The revelation" referenced in this ayat does NOT seem to refer to direct revelation given from Allah to the individual Muslim, but rather, it seems to refer to the revelation given from Allah to Mohammed (PBUH). Am I wrong in this assumption?
Is the principle of revelation that was operative in Mohammed (PBUH), operative in the lives of individual Muslims (direct revelation from Allah)?
Clear
I agree with most of the sentiment above. However you are talking about a different subject than True and direct revelation and communication between Allah and individuals. A “drug high” is NOT the same as revelation and has nothing to do with revelation. All men, including Atheists, may experience what you are talking about. I'm sure you are not meaning to equate Muslim inspiration to a near schizophrenic, drug induced state or halucinations.Nehustan remarks:
"However, this said, there are times during which man glimpses, if not the nature of God, then at least the nature of the unseen world. During such times, which I have experienced myself, the almost clockwork mechanisms of the universe appear apparent, and in such an ASC, the synchronicities I spoke of come in hard and fast. People who meditate experience this phenomenon, as do Muslims during fasting and intense periods of sunnah prayers, as also do people under the influence of psychoactive compounds, be they alcohol, caffeine based, marijuana, cactus derived etcetera."
Is there ANY reason to believe that Muslims believe in direct revelation; direct communication; either audible or inaudible voice; or vision to our eyes or minds; or specific thoughts placed directly by Allah or his spirit into the heart and mind of Muslims in the same manner that it happened to all Prophets of Allah, or to the Jews and Christians?
Clear
(Ill be in and out today as I prepare to leave...)
"Indirect revelation, yes, but a direct revelation by Allah like what prophet Mohammed experienced, a big NO." - TashaN
I am asking about direct revelation, you keep answering about "signs". These are not the same thing
This is a fascinating discussion and it will most interesting to see where "Clear" is going with these questions. Good answers, so far, Nehustan and TarshaN (There, happy now, "TarshaN", lol).
However, regarding, your example of DNA structure being revealed by Allah in a dream: If you believe that Allah does give revelation by angels or as voices or visions or dreams or thoughts placed directly into the hearts and minds of men in the manner of Mohammed, or the jews or the christians, then this IS, indeed direct revelation (though one need not claim "prophethood", but simply that Allah had given them direct revelation)." Well, Islam is strict about this issue because anyone would claim to be prophet, etc claiming to get a direct revelation. Direct reveleation stopped when prophet Mohammed passed away, period." - TashaN
I believe this is an absolutely correct principle, though I might not interpret it the same as others. I think the sense and meaning is not “substituting” one revelation for another, but rather this refers to the principle of Allah or God “adding” more revelation to what has already been given. The concept of revelations given “in stages” is not only correct, but is necessary since mankind are not able to understand knowledge as fast as or as much as Allah is able to dispense. This principle is very consistent with my beliefs as a Christian.”...When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages)” - 16:101
I believe that this principle relates to the above quote and is a true principle in Christianity as it is for Muslims for the reasons I’ve mentioned above."Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually." 25:32
The concept of “trying to ascend man toward his higher nature” is not merely a profound thought, but, I think, is an accurate description of Allah's (God's) “plan” for mankind from the very beginning of creation. This is what I was also taught as a Christian and is in agreement with my own sentiments....it seems to me that God, and his agents have been playing a benevolent role in trying to ascend man toward his higher nature.”
I think TashaN is absolutely correct that Allah is bound to give us knowledge and wisdom when we obey the principles upon which knowledge and wisdom is based. It is as predictable as a simple mathematical equation. Just as adding 2 and 2 will ALWAYS equal 4, following principles upon which spiritual knowledge and progress is acquired ALWAYS results in greater knowledge, understanding, and spiritual progress.”... when we BELIEVE then USE these words and APPLY it in our life, we will taste success and peace of mind which will make us closer to Allah and have more knowledge and more wisdom. It's so simple as a b c. Allah said pray to me and i'll answer you. - TashaN”