Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID

[Wandering Monk]

They do in some instances, such as childhood vaccines to go to school.
The problem is all the easy exceptions and exemptions they allow.

You have options not to send your kids to public school and to home school.

 

[PruePhillip]

Straw man. Government cannot force you to get vaccinated.

But... can the govt force you keep out of a hospital if you refuse to be vaccinated
and get sick with Covid?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don’t use Twitter,

I said "papers" that cite "twitter"

You should read more carefully.

I listen to what people say

It seems this is only true when those people say what you want to hear.

and watch what they do is why I’m saying Government agencies are corrupt and deceitful.

How is that relevant to how viruses behave and how vaccination would help getting out of this mess?

So is the science community who show half the story and get away with pushing maybe’s as facts, then next year the “facts” weren’t facts.

Your false perception and false information, which you ironically have gotten from those "corrupt and deceitful" politically biased people you like to complain about, doesn't have any bite.

When government agencies put out conflicting information it’s a red flag for me to stop and wait for more information, not keep going like a lemming.

Or, alternatively, you could like... not go to a political source to learn about medical issues.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Or, alternatively, you could like... not go to a political source to learn about medical issues.

I don’t go to political sources to learn about medical issues, I go to a political source to see how politics has used medical issues to control the public, namely Democrats and how successful they’ve been at dividing and manipulating people.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It seems this is only true when those people say what you want to hear.

Fauci is supposed to be the expert but looks to be corrupt and changes his mind a lot. One day he says masks won’t help, next he says you have to wear a mask and then he doesn’t wear a mask or improperly wears a mask. One of the important things to find out about viruses is the origin and looks like he is covering up his role in that as well. So yes I watch and listen, when the President says he is going to have a certain percentage of the public vaccinated and it falls short, then we see the coercion, the pressure out on people to conform. No I don’t really think they care about citizens and or our health.

 

[ElishaElijah]

https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftheri.../aaps-Guide-to-Home-Based-Covid-Treatment.pdf
This guide explains our families approach to Covid 19 after considering the available options.
Page 23 - Vaccines in development and what is shared there are some of the reason we personally are waiting on taking vaccines at this time. We believe we have healthy immune systems and as this guide explains and gives guidance we believe we can make wise decisions with our doctor on treatment. @AlexanderG

 

[SkepticThinker]

I read the whole article bro and you still missed the point on why I posted it. You’re giving the impression that you believe most people aren’t getting vaccinations for political or religious reasons, some are but the majority aren’t. The reason is because of the uncertainty of the vaccines right now and a lot of people are being cautious before taking it. So simple and wise in my opinion. If you have to you have to and may have to take that risk and get the vaccine. Give it a rest bro.

You've clearly demonstrated in this thread that you are coming from a politically motivated position.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Fauci is supposed to be the expert but looks to be corrupt and changes his mind a lot. One day he says masks won’t help, next he says you have to wear a mask and then he doesn’t wear a mask or improperly wears a mask. One of the important things to find out about viruses is the origin and looks like he is covering up his role in that as well. So yes I watch and listen, when the President says he is going to have a certain percentage of the public vaccinated and it falls short, then we see the coercion, the pressure out on people to conform. No I don’t really think they care about citizens and or our health.

I remember Fauci at the start of the pandemic, urging people not to buy up all the masks, because there was a shortage at that time, and the doctors and nurses (frontline workers) treating overwhelming amounts of COVID patients coming into hospitals needed them. The same thing happened here in Canada. But later, when masks started becoming more mass produced and available to the public, then the advisories changed and we were told that wearing masks was a good idea to help slow the spread of COVID (which is demonstrably true). What's wrong with that, exactly? How is that corrupt? It sounds to me like you've bought into the anti-vaxx/right-wing talking points that have been plastered all over social media about Fauci for the last year. I've seen all the memes too. But I realize they aren't a valid or reliable source of information on anything.

We all need a certain percentage of the population (of the world) to be vaccinated so that we can reach herd immunity. So you look at Biden, who is imploring people to vaccinate and has encouraged states to offer incentives to people who vaccine, so that herd immunity can be reached and people can stop dying in droves. You've seen Dr. Fauci (among many other doctors, nurses and medical workers) on TV every day imploring people to mask up and vaccinate so we can reach herd immunity and lower the infection/death rates. And the conclusion you've drawn from that is that you "don't really think they care about citizens and our health." Sorry, but that doesn't seem to follow. So, I must ask, how did you come to this conclusion?

 

[ElishaElijah]

You've clearly demonstrated in this thread that you are coming from a politically motivated position.

I may have answered some political questions and assumptions that were brought up that I didn’t agree with but my answers were to the questions @AlexanderG asked about evangelicals and why some aren’t jumping to get vaccinated. First of all we had Covid already and have the antibodies are considered immune now. Vaccines are not the cure either and may be great for people but not all.

 

[metis]

namely Democrats and how successful they’ve been at dividing and manipulating people.

And Trump doesn't and didn't? He's used the "divide & conquer" approach quite successfully-- unfortunately. OTOH, Biden campaigned on trying to bring the sides together, but guess which group has largely decided to again play the "Party of No"? What did McConnell say?

Trump has repeatedly shown that he does not believe in nor is willing to reflect even the most basic Judeo-Christian norms, whereas Biden has and still is trying, and yet you still support the former. That speaks volumes.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I may have answered some political questions and assumptions that were brought up that I didn’t agree with but my answers were to the questions @AlexanderG asked about evangelicals and why some aren’t jumping to get vaccinated. First of all we had Covid already and have the antibodies are considered immune now. Vaccines are not the cure either and may be great for people but not all.

So evangelicals are politically motivated? Why?

The best treatment we currently have is vaccination. And we need to reach herd immunity if we want to have any chance of getting anywhere back to anything like normal.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Covid doesn't give a damn about your politics or what you believe about Covid.

 

[ecco]

The whole conversation is that you’re wrong about why some people are waiting and not getting vaccinated, that government shouldn’t be mandating people get vaccinated. That decision should be left up to the individual adult with their doctor.

At this point, the Government may have to step in and mandate shots. The Government mandated shots to stop the spread of smallpox and it worked.

The Government mandated the draft of young men to fight in Vietnam. That didn't save lives, it killed Americans. Yet the same right-wing conservatives who were for the draft are now the ones arguing against mandates.

Hypocrisy.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So evangelicals are politically motivated? Why?

The best treatment we currently have is vaccination. And we need to reach herd immunity if we want to have any chance of getting anywhere back to anything like normal.

See #864 and that guide goes into detail will explain my motivation. Not sure why the government didn’t get this information out to everyone. It is critical to treat Covid early and we had all the medication before any vaccine. This information was suppressed, if these treatments were made known like the vaccines are being pushed in my opinion many people would’ve recovered quickly in the early stages of the disease instead of dying in the hospital from doing nothing and waiting for the virus to take hold in your body going to the advanced stages.

 

[SkepticThinker]

https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftheri.../aaps-Guide-to-Home-Based-Covid-Treatment.pdf

This guide explains our families approach to Covid 19 after considering the available options.

Page 23 - Vaccines in development and what is shared there are some of the reason we personally are waiting on taking vaccines at this time. We believe we have healthy immune systems and as this guide explains and gives guidance we believe we can make wise decisions with our doctor on treatment. @AlexanderG

See #864 and that guide goes into detail will explain my motivation. Not sure why the government didn’t get this information out to everyone. It is critical to treat Covid early and we had all the medication before any vaccine. This information was suppressed, if these treatments were made known like the vaccines are being pushed in my opinion many people would’ve recovered quickly in the early stages of the disease instead of dying in the hospital from doing nothing and waiting for the virus to take hold in your body going to the advanced stages.

So you'd rather we keep spreading COVID around, allowing for more variants to pop up and more people to contract it, and rely on treatments (after the fact) rather than taking the preventative approach of mass vaccination and herd immunity? Or ... ? What are these people advocating that we're not already doing?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

At this point, the Government may have to step in and mandate shots. The Government mandated shots to stop the spread of smallpox and it worked.

The Government mandated the draft of young men to fight in Vietnam. That didn't save lives, it killed Americans. Yet the same right-wing conservatives who were for the draft are now the ones arguing against mandates.

Hypocrisy.

But we have the Delta variant that's not "obeying" vaccinations and people are still getting breakthroughs from the vaccines we have no-rarity doesn't discredit the severity of the breakthroughs.

The US government and CDC etc are telling vaccinated to wear their masks again. Now, between vaccination and masks, I'd prefer the vaccination but it seems odd that the next line of defense against Delta is to put on masks again (CDC says some vaccinated Americans should wear masks indoors again). It sounds like they're going backwards-unless they are saying masks works better than the vaccines (our go to just in case another variant pops up). @We Never Know (and its ironic the name fits the convo) posted there is another variant floating around (In the US there is a new COVID-19 variant that could be more resistant to vaccines.). I would say don't take for granted vaccination.

I think it would be a mess if there was a mandate in addition to the rights over potential spread but also the different variants are making scientist switch gears and we haven't had this vaccination long enough to track "long-term" effects.

Shrugs. Anyway.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So you'd rather we keep spreading COVID around, allowing for more variants to pop up and more people to contract it, and rely on treatments (after the fact) rather than taking the preventative approach of mass vaccination and herd immunity? Or ... ? What are these people advocating that we're not already doing?

A lot of people got Covid and have recovered and have immunity. Many people do preventive approach in different ways, get vaccinated if you want. But to say or insinuate by everyone getting vaccinated we won’t see any more variants is false.

 

[SkepticThinker]

But we have the Delta variant that's not "obeying" vaccinations and people are still getting breakthroughs from the vaccines we have no-rarity doesn't discredit the severity of the breakthroughs.

This should tell us something about allowing the virus to run rampant through the population, right?

The US government and CDC etc are telling vaccinated to wear their masks again. Now, between vaccination and masks, I'd prefer the vaccination but it seems odd that the next line of defense against Delta is to put on masks again (CDC says some vaccinated Americans should wear masks indoors again).

Why? What would you suggest?

It sounds like they're going backwards-unless they are saying masks works better than the vaccines (our go to just in case another variant pops up). @We Never Know (and its ironic the name fits the convo) posted there is another variant floating around (In the US there is a new COVID-19 variant that could be more resistant to vaccines.). I would say don't take for granted vaccination.

Yep, and that's the point. We are going to go backwards when new variants arise because people aren't vaccinating and we can't reach herd immunity! If we continue on this path, we are never going to get back anything close to "normal."

I think it would be a mess if there was a mandate in addition to the rights over potential spread but also the different variants are making scientist switch gears and we haven't had this vaccination long enough to track "long-term" effects.

Shrugs. Anyway.

As previously mentioned, long-term side effects from vaccines typically show up within 8 weeks. We're beyond that now.

 

[SkepticThinker]

A lot of people got Covid and have recovered and have immunity.

Yeah, and four million people have died from contracting it. That's not a viable option.

Many people do preventive approach in different ways, get vaccinated if you want. But to say or insinuate by everyone getting vaccinated we won’t see any more variants is false.

Maybe you could reply to my point now.
The best preventative approach is to vaccinate to the point of herd immunity so that the virus cannot continue to reproduce and mutate. You do know that the virus reproduces via human hosts, right?

 

[ElishaElijah]

This should tell us something about allowing the virus to run rampant through the population, right?


Why? What would you suggest?


Yep, and that's the point. We are going to go backwards when new variants arise because people aren't vaccinating and we can't reach herd immunity! If we continue on this path, we are never going to get back anything close to "normal."


As previously mentioned, long-term side effects from vaccines typically show up within 8 weeks. We're beyond that now.

Herd immunity is reached by vaccination or people getting Covid and recovering, we are close to that already. What is your answer for people who are fully vaccinated yet get Covid? What about the scientists working on viruses in the lab? Will this stop or will more enhanced viruses get accidentally released? Seems to me the government should clean up their own house instead of messing with mine.