Y we got unenlightened if we were enlightened sometime ?

[manbangs]

As of right now, I have no real ideas about Tantric Buddhism, although I am interested in studying it more. As far as enlightenment being transferred from a deity, this is incorrect, and is not what the Buddha taught. Enlightenment can only be reached by ourselves and our own efforts, it cannot be transferred, like salvation in Christianity. The Buddha said that only we can save ourselves.

lol
well i must tell u bro, it's a sort of yoga practice .
there is not just one way to attain enlightnment !
transmission is just an attuning so that body, speech & mind of practitioner becomes one (unified) with deity. This way he becomes a realized enlightened being.
transmission means empowerment of energy & attuning the mind to levels of deity himself !
there r many ways !
but the practitioner realises by himself only else it won't be realization !!!

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Yes, I know that Vajrayana practices Yoga and Tantra. I'm just new to the details. But you are right in saying that there is not only one way to enlightenment. The Buddha stated as much.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

oki illusion makes it .
but even now u didn't answer my question.
if u say this then tell where did the illusion came from ?
how illusion can make buddha who is permanently enlightened become un-enlightened or fall in illusions of duality ???

Illusion is created by the human mind and conditioning thought patterns.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The Practice of Chan includes elements of Taoism and Buddhism. It's a Mahayana Zen school.

One person likened this mix as being pasta and starch. Stirred not shaken ;O)

 

[manbangs]

Illusion is created by the human mind and conditioning thought patterns.

yea but still it's not my answer !
where did this human came from ?
where did the mind became un-enlightened ???

 

[Onkara]

yea but still it's not my answer !
where did this human came from ?
where did the mind became un-enlightened ???

This human is a part of the whole. You may feel separate due to you senses and patterns (sleep, eating, liking, disliking etc).

The mind doesn't exist. There is only consciousness. Thoughts appear and some thoughts are louder than other thoughts, currently one such thought seems to be the thought that there is un-enlightenment.

 

[zer0]

Hi ppl...
I want to query here abt a question whose answer i didn't get anywhere yet.
If we are going back to the Tao as our practice then why did we get separated from the tao ?
What happened that made us un-enlightened for which we have to get enlightened.

& once we r enlightened or one with Tao then it is said that one doesn't fall in sufferings ever !
on other hand they say that all were beginninglessly enlightened !
How can all it be possible ?

So, i don't understand these contradicting philosophies !
Can anyone here explain it ??

My dear friend. I am sorry to inform you that this is merely the Tao the Tao works and that's just the Tao it is.

 

[koan]

zerO What you have said here is Taoism and not Buddhism, not even Zen budhism. Zen/cha'n/ son/thien are similar to taoism but are not the same. The overall tenets of Budhism always apply.

 

[Sikh]

Hi ppl...
I want to query here abt a question whose answer i didn't get anywhere yet.
If we are going back to the Tao as our practice then why did we get separated from the tao ?
What happened that made us un-enlightened for which we have to get enlightened.

& once we r enlightened or one with Tao then it is said that one doesn't fall in sufferings ever !
on other hand they say that all were beginninglessly enlightened !
How can all it be possible ?

So, i don't understand these contradicting philosophies !
Can anyone here explain it ??

This is only a Guess, but I think Language happened. A communication method which is Dualistic and so could never explain the Tao without dualism and so we lost recognition of the Tao.

 

[koan]

Not just language, thinking as well. Language just puts thoughts into words. However, what you are describing is Toaism not Budhism. In Zen Buddhism, the tao is used to describe the method of practice. In Zen it means,"the way", or "the path". This way/ path when followed, should lead to enlightenment.

 

[Sikh]

Not just language, thinking as well. Language just puts thoughts into words. However, what you are describing is Toaism not Budhism. In Zen Buddhism, the tao is used to describe the method of practice. In Zen it means,"the way", or "the path". This way/ path when followed, should lead to enlightenment.

I have not had it termed in this fashion, could you please elaborate? My understanding was that the Tao is the base reality, you seem to be saying that it is a yoga?

 

[koan]

No not a yoga, just another religion philosophy. Buddhism does not use 'Tao" as the base reality, this is a Chinese term. The Buddha was Indian. Buddhism does not have a "Base reality." Buddhism describes The origins of things(dharma), as incomprehensible. However the truth of all things(dharma), can be known (enlightenment).

 

[Sikh]

No not a yoga, just another religion philosophy. Buddhism does not use 'Tao" as the base reality, this is a Chinese term. The Buddha was Indian. Buddhism does not have a "Base reality." Buddhism describes The origins of things(dharma), as incomprehensible. However the truth of all things(dharma), can be known (enlightenment).

I know that the Tao is Chinese, but I thought it is the same as Enlightenment since it cannot be dualistic--I always thought that it was the Chinese Gurus way of referring to enlightenment.

I thought it was odd that you would say that Zen Masters used enlightenment/Tao to reach enlightenment. That is why I asked if you viewed Tao as a yoga? Yoga being a series of techniques one would use to achieve enlightenment.

By Base reality I meant that which is not Maya. What do you wish to call this?

 

[koan]

It doesn't have a name, sometimes it's called the time before beginning . Also, in Chinese, Dao/Tao, means way or path. In Zen/Cha'n Buddhism, this means Zen is this particular Way/path, to enlightenment. In Zen/Cha'n, Tao/dao doesn't mean enlightenment, it's just a way of describing the practice of getting there.

 

[zenzero]

Friend manbangs,

Y we got unenlightened if we were enlightened sometime ?

Who said that U R UN-enlightened????
Surely,its only the mind who did it and so just STILL the mind and It will be known/understood that each form is enlightened at all times.

Love & rgds

 

[Sweetvoice]

Y we got unenlightened if we were enlightened sometime ?

This sentence should be understood or phrased in this manner:
We are now and for a long time unenlightened. When the Buddha realized enlightenment he said all beings have the Buddha-Nature from beginningless time. This Buddha-Nature is basically undefiled, but because we fail to know that we possess it and use it. The Buddha said it is like the jewel in our garment which we didn't know we had in the first place until someone tells us so. In this sense, we are to understand that we are enlightened always, but not knowing it yet. So, the Buddha used many methods to reveal to us this hidden jewel within us. Once we realized (not found) that we have it, we will be termed "enlightened" as always. Meanwhile we have that "enlightenment" (jewel).