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World Peace - Is it possible?

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
There have been many tribulations. WWI and WWII for example. If humanity fails to take positive and constructive active to address the problems then we will have further tribulations.

We ain't seen nothin' yet!
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Jesus said that "unless the days were cut short no flesh would be saved"....he was talking about the end times for this world, not just the end of Jerusalem. (Matthew 24:3)

The development of the United Nations along with a series of international initiatives were important steps in remedying a defective world order. Clearly there are problems with the functioning of the UN but by collective some of these can be remedied

We see the UN as "the image of the wild beast"...a toothless tiger for most of its useless existence as an organization for keeping global peace. But we expect that we will eventually see this entity given some real teeth in the near future.

"Babylon the great" will be destroyed and "the great tribulation" will begin......this will be followed by the manifestation of Jesus Christ which will be seen by all humanity, according to Luke.
Luke 21:25-31:
“Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.”
29 With that he told them an illustration: “Notice the fig tree and all the other trees. 30 When they are budding, you see it for yourselves and know that now the summer is near. 31 Likewise also you, when you see these things happening, know that the Kingdom of God is near."


The sign that Jesus gave to indicate his "presence" (parousia) was to identify the time when he began ruling as king. It was not a visible event but something Daniel wrote about over 500 years before Jesus was even born. (Daniel 7:13-14)

The kingdom will come by God, not by any man. (Daniel 2:44)

This is based on prophecies in the book of revelation. Much of it has already happened long ago.

Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library
http://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/#f=f5-234
I'm sorry but I do not accept Baha'i reference works as scripture. There is only one Bible for Christians. We need nothing to be added by anyone else.

The book of Revelation takes us a thousand years into the future and much of it's prophesy, we believe, has taken place "in the Lord's day" (from 1914 onward) where John said he was 'transported' to when writing his revelation. What do you perceive the "Lord's day" to be?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming#Baha.27i_Faith
That belief requires you to take the word of a man, who by his life and death was nothing like Christ.

The-Shrine-of-Bahaullah.jpg


This is the shrine to Baha’u’llah, which according to this site...."to his followers, the most sacred spot on Earth."


Baha'u'llah

Can you direct me to a shrine for Jesus Christ?

Can you point me to the Kingdom of God that Christ and his bride bring to the earth so that......."The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”....? (Revelation 21:2-4) :shrug:


"The Baha’is view Baha’u’llah as the promised Lord of Hosts of the Jews; the reincarnation of Krishna and the Tenth Avatar to the Hindus; the fifth Buddha, named Maitreye, the Buddha of universal fellowship to the Buddhists; the return of Christ “in the glory of the Father” to the Christians; the return of the Imam Husayn to the Shi’a Muslims; the descent of the “Spirit of God” to the Sunnis."

Wow! What a grandiose claim! And how do you confirm that he is all he claimed to be? Whose word do you have for that?

"Raised in his father’s Islamic faith, Baha’u’llah broke away from those traditions by becoming a Babi, the revolutionary new belief that promised the advent of a messenger from God who would unite the world’s peoples, nations and religions"

Jesus said that 'salvation originated with the Jews', (John 4:22) not Islam....not Baba, not Baha’u’llah.
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or any other....

Jesus Christ is the founder of my faith....I recognize no other.

When you understand who Baha'u'llah is, then we will better understand each other.

I will never recognize any other prophet as a teacher for Christians, except Jesus Christ....sorry.

As the apostle Paul said.....
Hebrews 1:1-4:
"Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs."

Jesus 'sat at the right hand of God' waiting for the further outworking of God' purpose.....to 'place his enemies as a stool for his feet'....then he was to "go subduing in the midst of his enemies". (Psalm 110:1, 2)

There is no other heir.....the kingdom is not in the hands of a dead man.....it is all under the control of the living Christ.

Being a hated minority doesn't imply you are right. Sometimes being people of the truth leads to being respected.

I understand that, but it was foretold by Jesus himself....if you have no reputation as a hated minority in the whole world, then you don't even have a hat in the ring.....who hates Baha'i's? Most people here in Australia have never heard of them.
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I have never even come across one in all my years of door to door preaching.

John 15:18-21:
"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me."

It has to be the same kind of hatred that was endured by Jesus and his early disciples...for doing the same work of bearing witness to God's kingdom as the only hope for mankind....not any man made institutions controlled by God's adversary. (1 John 5:19)

These are the reasons I could never accept the teachings of Baha'i's. You seem to want to be part of this world whereas we have separated ourselves from it, as Jesus instructed. :(
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm sorry but I do not accept Baha'i reference works as scripture. There is only one Bible for Christians. We need nothing to be added by anyone else.

Thank you for your post. I was not asking you to accept Baha'i scripture or the Baha'u'llah's claims. But it is important when we are conversing (and I'm happy to continue doing so), we are aware of, and respect each others beliefs. So when you are talking about all these events from the bible that are going to happen, I see that much of it has happened.

This isn't really the thread to be debating the rights and wrongs of our different faiths but just to be aware that those differences exist.

Best Wishes
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
There is no objective history. It is always written subjectively.
People do not want unconditional peace,
They want peace that favours themselves.
A world without wars is possible, it is however unlikely.
Hostility would remain between people.
Peace can not be imposed.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
So what are the barriers?

Do you the necessity for it? For example the need for international cooperation to prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction?

Our differences are the barriers. If a compromise can't be reached, war is a natural consequence.
How would you prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction ?
 
So long as people choose to be competitive for the purpose of winners subjugating the losers there will never be peace because when competition crosses the line from experimental comparison between the outcomes of behaviors people test to arrive at the best outcome; e.g. compare training and diet protocols for building a healthy body or inventing a more efficient car, into separating people into winners or losers, the competition itself is the very definition of war. In economic systems it endows the winners a sense of entitlement to make street people out of the losers so that the winners can flout oversized mansions with walk-in closets the size of aircraft hangers. "I have more money so I am better than you and I will get more money by selling your children tobacco products" is an initiated act of violence justified by arbitrary rules of sportsmanship under "free enterprise" that pretends to balance out everything by playing psychopaths against psychopaths through systems of incentive that sooner or later break down as the worst psychopaths outdo others in gaming the system.
Violent sports is the pornography that indoctrinates the public into thinking there is something legitimate and of human redeeming value in people deliberately injuring one another outside the realm of self-defense. It metastasizes into destructive economic competition where counterfeit entrepreneurs such as Buffet and Trump who create no wealth as they suck it out of the world around them get compared to Howard Hughes or Bill Gates who at least created more wealth than they accumulated.
 

Upaava

Member
During 1985 during the cold war the Universal House of Justice (governing body of the Baha'i Faith) sent a document titled "the Promise of world peace" to all world leaders:
Early on it stated:
"...Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity’s stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth. At this critical juncture when the intractable problems confronting nations have been fused into one common concern for the whole world, failure to stem the tide of conflict and disorder would be unconscionably irresponsible.

Is world peace really achievable?...

What can we do?

May peace be with you,

This is a wonderful topic to discuss. I hope that people will come away with the realization that they all play a part in when, if, and how peace can be accomplished.

"...Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity’s stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth..."

Make no mistake, the future depends upon how we work for peace, or not; how we not only share words for peace ourselves (helpful), but especially how we get actively involved in the peace process with others.

Do not underestimate the power of prayer, especially when it is focused upon one theme joined en-masse around the world. If we can realize the forces arrayed to keep us fighting among ourselves, refusing to be fooled, we can unite to accomplish seeming miracles.

If we will join together in the cause of world peace, it's realization is a foregone conclusion. So, what are you waiting for!
 

Upaava

Member
Is RF peace possible? As soon as we have peace on this debate forums website then I'll believe in world peace... Yet how close is this site to peace. People block other people, people get enraged from a word debate. I simply don't see the RF ever having peace and if the RF can't the world never will.

May peace be with you, Bob.

I understand your frustration, but this, or most any website, is not a representative sample of the general population, which it would need to be to show what to expect there. I say this to help raise a spirit of optimism for what is possible outside the RF domain.

There are many good people actively working for peace in every country. Let us join in that cause. As what part of Adrian's original quote reminds us:

"...At this critical juncture when the intractable problems confronting nations have been fused into one common concern for the whole world, failure to stem the tide of conflict and disorder would be unconscionably irresponsible..."

The choice is up to each of us.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
During 1985 during the cold war the Universal House of Justice (governing body of the Baha'i Faith) sent a document titled "the Promise of world peace" to all world leaders:

The Promise of World Peace—The Universal House of Justice

Early on it stated:
World peace is not only possible but inevitable. It is the next stage in the evolution of this planet—in the words of one great thinker, “the planetization of mankind”.

Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity’s stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth. At this critical juncture when the intractable problems confronting nations have been fused into one common concern for the whole world, failure to stem the tide of conflict and disorder would be unconscionably irresponsible.

Is world peace really achievable?

What does your Faith or ideology have to say about world peace?

What are the barriers and the prerequisites for its establishment?

What can we do?

Possible? Yes. Probable? No.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
During 1985 during the cold war the Universal House of Justice (governing body of the Baha'i Faith) sent a document titled "the Promise of world peace" to all world leaders:

The Promise of World Peace—The Universal House of Justice

Early on it stated:
World peace is not only possible but inevitable. It is the next stage in the evolution of this planet—in the words of one great thinker, “the planetization of mankind”.

Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity’s stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth. At this critical juncture when the intractable problems confronting nations have been fused into one common concern for the whole world, failure to stem the tide of conflict and disorder would be unconscionably irresponsible.

Is world peace really achievable?

What does your Faith or ideology have to say about world peace?

What are the barriers and the prerequisites for its establishment?

What can we do?


The universal desire for peace is the driving force that leads mankind toward the learning and the resolution. As I see it God's goal is not world peace. God's goal is the education of God's children. Until mankind reaches a higher level of understanding through education, mankind will not Love Unconditionally, thus there will not be peace. Further, things are not static. God's system is constantly moving and changing. Some students learn and move on while there seems to be an almost limitless number of new students arriving needing to learn those same old lessons.

In time, mankind will advance just as we did from the caveman days. On the other hand, I see it taking a long time from our current position.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Our differences are the barriers. If a compromise can't be reached, war is a natural consequence.
How would you prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction ?

This would result from a voluntary agreement of all nations to dispense with such weapons. All nations would need to agree to it. One country who holds a massive arsenal while the others dispose of theirs won't be acceptable for obvious reasons.

The deterrence argument with nuclear weapons is essentially madness.

Why will nations all agree to this?



Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity’s stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth. At this critical juncture when the intractable problems confronting nations have been fused into one common concern for the whole world, failure to stem the tide of conflict and disorder would be unconscionably irresponsible.

 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
It has to be the same kind of hatred that was endured by Jesus and his early disciples...for doing the same work of bearing witness to God's kingdom as the only hope for mankind....not any man made institutions controlled by God's adversary. (1 John 5:19)

As you have criticised the Baha'i Faith because of lack of persecution I recommend you study some history. For 75 years the Persian and Ottoman empires did their utmost to eradicate the Baha'is. Baha'u'llah Himself endured 40 years of exile, imprisonment, and even torture. An estimated 20,000 of early Babis/Baha'is were put to death by these empires often by cruel and horrific means that are well documented. In Iran the cradle of our Faith many Baha'is are held in prison for no crime other than their religion. Regardless, the persecution has been like oil poured onto a blazing fire.

How many a Baha'i at the hour of their reckoning have declared "You can take my life, but you can not stop this Mighty Cause."
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
So long as people choose to be competitive for the purpose of winners subjugating the losers there will never be peace because when competition crosses the line from experimental comparison between the outcomes of behaviors people test to arrive at the best outcome; e.g. compare training and diet protocols for building a healthy body or inventing a more efficient car, into separating people into winners or losers, the competition itself is the very definition of war. In economic systems it endows the winners a sense of entitlement to make street people out of the losers so that the winners can flout oversized mansions with walk-in closets the size of aircraft hangers. "I have more money so I am better than you and I will get more money by selling your children tobacco products" is an initiated act of violence justified by arbitrary rules of sportsmanship under "free enterprise" that pretends to balance out everything by playing psychopaths against psychopaths through systems of incentive that sooner or later break down as the worst psychopaths outdo others in gaming the system.
Violent sports is the pornography that indoctrinates the public into thinking there is something legitimate and of human redeeming value in people deliberately injuring one another outside the realm of self-defense. It metastasizes into destructive economic competition where counterfeit entrepreneurs such as Buffet and Trump who create no wealth as they suck it out of the world around them get compared to Howard Hughes or Bill Gates who at least created more wealth than they accumulated.

But as individuals we can choose a better way and work cooperatively, not competitively with others. Would you agree?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
If we will join together in the cause of world peace, it's realization is a foregone conclusion. So, what are you waiting for!

I just love your energy and enthusiasm! We're already there for certain:)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Thank you for your post. I was not asking you to accept Baha'i scripture or the Baha'u'llah's claims. But it is important when we are conversing (and I'm happy to continue doing so), we are aware of, and respect each others beliefs. So when you are talking about all these events from the bible that are going to happen, I see that much of it has happened.

This isn't really the thread to be debating the rights and wrongs of our different faiths but just to be aware that those differences exist.

I was only responding to what you said and about the links you posted. I also consulted another Baha'i website, so I was merely pointing out our differences and why they can never be bridged if we each keep to our chosen faith.

As you have criticised the Baha'i Faith because of lack of persecution I recommend you study some history. For 75 years the Persian and Ottoman empires did their utmost to eradicate the Baha'is. Baha'u'llah Himself endured 40 years of exile, imprisonment, and even torture. An estimated 20,000 of early Babis/Baha'is were put to death by these empires often by cruel and horrific means that are well documented. In Iran the cradle of our Faith many Baha'is are held in prison for no crime other than their religion. Regardless, the persecution has been like oil poured onto a blazing fire.

How many a Baha'i at the hour of their reckoning have declared "You can take my life, but you can not stop this Mighty Cause."

You mentioned the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses earlier (I can't find it now)

Here is an explanation from Wiki....

"Throughout Jehovah's Witnesses' history, their beliefs, doctrines, and practices have engendered controversy and opposition from local governments, communities, and religious groups.


Many Christian denominations consider the interpretations and doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses to be heretical. Some religious leaders have accused Jehovah's Witnesses of being a cult. According to law professor Archibald Cox, in the United States, Jehovah's Witnesses were "the principal victims of religious persecution … they began to attract attention and provoke repression in the 1930s, when their proselytizing and numbers rapidly increased."[1]


Political and religious animosity against Jehovah's Witnesses has at times led to mob action and government oppression in various countries, including Cuba, the United States, Canada, Singapore, and Nazi Germany. The religion's doctrine of political neutrality has led to imprisonment of members who refused conscription (for example in Britain during World War II and afterwards during the period of compulsory national service).


During the World Wars, Jehovah's Witnesses were targeted in the United States, Canada, and many other countries for their refusal to serve in the military or help with war efforts. In Canada, Jehovah's Witnesses were interned in camps[2] along with political dissidents and people of Japanese and Chinese descent. Activities of Jehovah's Witnesses have previously been banned in the Soviet Union and in Spain, partly due to their refusal to perform military service. Their religious activities are currently banned or restricted in some countries, for example in Singapore, China, Vietnam and many Islamic states.

According to the journal, Social Compass, "Viewed globally, this persecution has been so persistent and of such an intensity that it would not be inaccurate to regard Jehovah's witnesses as the most persecuted religion of the twentieth century".[3]"


Carrying on Wiki goes on to detail that persecution, country by country. Let it be noted that JW's were persecuted for being the most peaceful people on the planet. None of what happened to them was deserved.....they were treated just like Jesus. He told us to expect it. (John 15:18-21) And also like Jesus, the bulk of the persecution came from those who claimed to worship the same God.

Jehovah's Witnesses have a place in the Holocaust Museum because of what they endured under Hitler.

Jehovah's Witnesses

 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
May peace be with you,

This is a wonderful topic to discuss. I hope that people will come away with the realization that they all play a part in when, if, and how peace can be accomplished.

"...Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity’s stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth..."

Make no mistake, the future depends upon how we work for peace, or not; how we not only share words for peace ourselves (helpful), but especially how we get actively involved in the peace process with others.

Do not underestimate the power of prayer, especially when it is focused upon one theme joined en-masse around the world. If we can realize the forces arrayed to keep us fighting among ourselves, refusing to be fooled, we can unite to accomplish seeming miracles.

If we will join together in the cause of world peace, it's realization is a foregone conclusion. So, what are you waiting for!

According to the scriptures, world peace is certain.....but it will never be brought about by man.
no.gif

It is God himself who will eliminate selfish, greedy human governments and introduce his own kingdom rulership by crushing them out of existence. (Daniel 2:44)

Jesus taught us to pray for this kingdom to "come"....not that we go to the kingdom, but that kingdom rule comes to us, ensuring that God's will can be done here on earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:9-10; Revelation 21:2-4) When that takes place, everything that is wrong with the governing of this earth will be fixed. The question is....will we be there to enjoy it? Just claiming Christ as our "Lord" is not enough. (Matthew 7:21-23) We have to be "doing the will of the Father" to qualify for citizenship in that kingdom.

Now is the time to get our act together..... We have the manual that teaches us how.
128fs318181.gif
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
World peace will come with 'the prince of peace' , Jesus

but we get glimpses of it even now on a smaller scale

"Blessed are the peacemakers for their is the kingdom of heaven"
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
World peace will come with 'the prince of peace' , Jesus

but we get glimpses of it even now on a smaller scale

"Blessed are the peacemakers for their is the kingdom of heaven"

And "the meek shall inherit the earth"....
Left to his own devices, man will have nothing to leave anyone but a burnt out cinder.
4fvgdaq_th.gif
(Revelation 11:18)
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
And "the meek shall inherit the earth"....
Left to his own devices, man will have nothing to leave anyone but a burnt out cinder.
4fvgdaq_th.gif
(Revelation 11:18)

Well...no... they may have missed the first creation but all things will be made new with a cosmic scale recreation.... isn't it great?
 
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