World Ceasefire- the beginning of the end of War?

[Deeje]

Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the prophecies for the return of Christ and the coming of the Messiah promised in the Old Testament.

Please provide scriptural references for this....

Jesus cannot now come and re-fulfill them because it's already been done.

What exactly has been done?

Besides, Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. I have repeatedly asked Christians to post me any verses where Jesus (not Paul) says "I am going to return to earth" and not one such verse has ever been provided.

Matthew 25:31-33,
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. . . . .“Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels."

Revelation 11:15...
"he seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

Daniel 2:44, when prophesying about the Kingdom that Christ taught us to pray for says concerning the present day rulers...
“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever."
Jesus is the King of that Kingdom....but he ruling from heaven over earthly subjects.

Revelation 21:1-4...
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

A righteous "new heaven and new earth" are what we are awaiting (2 Peter 3:13)....a new form of rulership with Christ as King in heaven, assisted by his chosen ones from the earth, and a new earthly society of people who support God's Kingdom and are eager for it to rule over them. There will be no vestige of the old world with all its troubles left....we will never be troubled by them again...."the former things have passed away"...permanently.

Instead what we have are the following:

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

The mission for which Jesus was sent was accomplished in his death. That is what paid the ransom for mankind.
In his role as Messiah, Jesus glorified his Father and redeemed fallen mankind, paying a debt that was so big, no earthly person could provide it.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

"No more in the world" means exactly that. Jesus did not need to come into the world in the flesh ever again. He sacrificed his human body to save us and his glorified spiritual body in which he was raised will rule from heaven over the earth.

Speaking of his anointed fellow rulers, Jesus said...."and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” (Revelation 5:10)

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Yes...the kingdom of God has nothing to do with earthly rulers. It isn't from men, but from God. He installed his King and he chose its rulers and priests. (Revelation 20:6)

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Jesus did indeed come into the world to bear witness to the truth....but that was only part of his mission. He came to offer his life in behalf of the world....to rescue Adam's children from the debt that they inherited from him.
Romans 5:19...
"For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous."

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

That makes no sense at all to me. You see in those scriptures what you want to see...but you have to understand that the Bible backs itself up....no scripture can be taken in isolation unless the statement agrees with the whole Bible.

Do you have any proof of that or is it simply a belief?

Beliefs are all any of us have. We just have to have the right ones.
Jesus said that he would appoint a "faithful and discreet slave" to "feed" his household their "food at the proper time"....it is up to us to find that slave and feed on what he is serving....there is only one table and one truth....not many. (Matthew 24:45)

As a Baha'i, I believe that Jesus and Baha'u'llah shared the same nature, both were divine and human, and both were Manifestations of God, neither one "better" than the other. Of course, this is just a belief and I can no more prove it is true than you can prove your belief is true. All we have is evidence so it is simply a matter of who has the best evidence.

As a Christian I believe that Jesus had no equals. No one was prophesied to come after him, and he was Jewish, not Muslim. Baha'i is an offshoot of Islam and Islam claims that Ishmael is the one through whom Abraham's blessing would come. That is not what the Bible teaches at all. Jesus himself said that 'salvation originates with the Jews' (John 4:22).....from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob....not Ishmael.

There are so many instances where Baha'i beliefs contradict the Bible.....where Baha'ullah's life is the complete opposite of Jesus' life.
The man had three wives and 14 children.....Jesus was not married because he was not put on this earth to marry and have a family ....and certainly not three wives.

Jesus said...."...‘Did you not read that he who created them at the beginning made them male and female and said: “For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh”? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.’ They said to him: ‘Why, then, did Moses prescribe giving a certificate of dismissal and divorcing her?’ He said to them: ‘Moses, out of regard for your hardheartedness, made the concession to you of divorcing your wives, but such has not been the case from the beginning. I say to you that whoever divorces his wife except on the grounds of fornication and marries another commits adultery.’" (Matthew 19:3-9)

Christianity did not in any way promote polygamy. Jesus reinstated God's standard for marriage in the first century....one man, one wife.

 

[Secret Chief]

Homo Sapiens is a war maker; if only to secure oil, I mean bring western democracy.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In recent developments due to the corona virus, world leaders are on the verge of calling for a world ceasefire. So that monies can be spent on the health and well being of people.

Is this virus leading us and the world to establish world peace and rid the world finally of the curse and expense of war?


I believe peace is inevitable but I never imagined such a tiny virus to be the catalyst to push the world towards peace. With funding and economies strained and stressed it makes all the sense in the world that governments can no longer afford wars and an arms race when their populations are stricken with illness and they need monies for medicines and the well being of people.


Amanpour and Company | UN Secretary-General Calls for Global Ceasefire | Season 2020

World unity and peace - the beginning?

Unfortunately, I do not believe the world will become better as times go, there will be a lot worse since in my understanding we are in the Dharma ending period (end of the world as we know it)

 

[Samantha Rinne]

In recent developments due to the corona virus, world leaders are on the verge of calling for a world ceasefire. So that monies can be spent on the health and well being of people.

Is this virus leading us and the world to establish world peace and rid the world finally of the curse and expense of war?


I believe peace is inevitable but I never imagined such a tiny virus to be the catalyst to push the world towards peace. With funding and economies strained and stressed it makes all the sense in the world that governments can no longer afford wars and an arms race when their populations are stricken with illness and they need monies for medicines and the well being of people.


Amanpour and Company | UN Secretary-General Calls for Global Ceasefire | Season 2020

World unity and peace - the beginning?

World control - the end. This is one of the false miracles of the Antichrist, and it is clear from what I say WHO that I consider the Antichrist to be.

Peace is great and all but sometimes fighting is necessary. So is risking your life. Read Proverbs 26 about lions.

1. If you're fighting for independence from another country
2. If you're being oppressed by a religious or political regime
3. If thugs and murderers are trying to take your wife, your freedom, your property, or your life away.

 

[BilliardsBall]

In recent developments due to the corona virus, world leaders are on the verge of calling for a world ceasefire. So that monies can be spent on the health and well being of people.

Is this virus leading us and the world to establish world peace and rid the world finally of the curse and expense of war?


I believe peace is inevitable but I never imagined such a tiny virus to be the catalyst to push the world towards peace. With funding and economies strained and stressed it makes all the sense in the world that governments can no longer afford wars and an arms race when their populations are stricken with illness and they need monies for medicines and the well being of people.


Amanpour and Company | UN Secretary-General Calls for Global Ceasefire | Season 2020

World unity and peace - the beginning?

The beginning of unity and peace, biblically, is Christ's return. The COVID-19 situation is leading to other biblical concepts, such as the end of cash currency and the ushering in of one world government under Antichrist.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

The beginning of unity and peace, biblically, is Christ's return. The COVID-19 situation is leading to other biblical concepts, such as the end of cash currency and the ushering in of one world government under Antichrist.

This. I imagine at some point, despite everyone actually developing immunity to the (so-called?) pandemic, they will not allow people to conduct trade unless they have some sort of marker which is probably from the vaccine they expect people to take.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer, can you not write even one paragraph without contradictions? First you say that your Bahaollah fulfilled all the prophecies for the return of Jesus. But for Bahais, Bab was the returning Jesus.

No, the Bab was not the returning Jesus. The Bab was the return of the "spirit" of Jesus, just as all Manifestations of God were, but He was not the Comforter/Spirit of truth that Jesus promised to send from the Father, that was Baha'u'llah.

In the next sentence you say that Jesus never promised to return and you have checked it with many Christians.

I meant that the same Jesus never promised to return in the same body He had on earth.

So, what prophecies did Bab or Bahaollah fulfill if there were no promises to return to start with? What did that 19th Century Iranian preacher tell his followers or how did his son and great grandson explain it? You yourself are confused and you make others confused.

Sorry for the confusion. Jesus said we would see the Son of man coming in the clouds but I do not believe He was referring to Himself. The Son of man is a title used yo refer to the perfect man. Jesus was the Son of man and Baha'u'llah was the "return" of the Son of man, the "return" of the Spirit of Christ in another human body.

,
Can you prove it? Can Deeje prove it? No, no theist can prove anything, whether Trailblazer or Deeje. What you have are just your beliefs. What evidence are you talking about that Jesus does not have and Bahaollah has? The vision of the 'Maid of Heaven'?

I never said I can prove it. If I could prove it it would be a fact, not a belief.

I said there is evidence that indicates what I am saying is true and I said there is better evidence for Baha'i belief than there is for Christian belief, because Baha'i history is contemporary and it was chronicled by people who knew the Bab and Baha'u'llah, and we have the original Writings of Baha'u'llah. By contrast, the Bible is ancient history and not verifiable, and we have no original writings of Jesus, just sayings that came by way of oral tradition. The differences are stark.

The vision of the Maid of Heaven is not evidence because that was personal to Baha'u'llah.

Baha’u’llah told us how we are supposed to establish the truth of His claim. First, we examine His own Self (His character); then we examine His Revelation (everything that surrounds His Mission on earth); and then we look at His words (His Writings).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Baha’u’llah told us how we are supposed to establish the truth of His claim. First, we examine His own Self (His character); then we examine His Revelation (everything that surrounds His Mission on earth); and then we look at His words (His Writings).

There are millions of people who have good characters, so what is special about that? If we look at the translated works of Bahaollah in 'Olde English', they are purposely made too difficult to understand, IMHO they were presented to confuse people. What he sayeth, no one understandeth. And there is nothing new in them.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are millions of people who have good characters, so what is special about that? If we look at the translated works of Bahaollah in 'Olde English', they are purposely made too difficult to understand, IMHO they were presented to confuse people. What he sayeth, no one understandeth. And there is nothing new in them.

Sure, good character is not enough evidence. Baha'u'llah said we need to look at all three of these evidences, but some people will not believe no matter how much evidence there is.

I never used to understand what Baha'u'llah wrote, but now I do. One day about six years ago I picked up Gleanings and most everything in it was understandable. It all came to me who God was and my life has never been the same since.

Some of the Writings of Baha'u'llah are a renewal of the spiritual truths from older religions, but much of what He wrote that pertains to this age is new. Not everything that Baha'u'llah wrote was translated in Old English. but I like what was translated that way, and I understand it. For those people who do not understand the Writings of Baha'u'llah there are the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi which are clear and easy to understand.

 

[Twilight Hue]

In recent developments due to the corona virus, world leaders are on the verge of calling for a world ceasefire. So that monies can be spent on the health and well being of people.

Is this virus leading us and the world to establish world peace and rid the world finally of the curse and expense of war?


I believe peace is inevitable but I never imagined such a tiny virus to be the catalyst to push the world towards peace. With funding and economies strained and stressed it makes all the sense in the world that governments can no longer afford wars and an arms race when their populations are stricken with illness and they need monies for medicines and the well being of people.


Amanpour and Company | UN Secretary-General Calls for Global Ceasefire | Season 2020

World unity and peace - the beginning?

The straight answer is no.

I do hope though it might be a protracted period of peace, although i don't see it being likely anytime soon. Warfare doesn't recognize things like viruses nor does it matter except when it comes to casualty rates.

 

[Wandering Monk]

IMO, as the world creates more co-dependencies via trade, I think it will reduce the war incentive.

 

[izzy88]

I believe peace is inevitable

While I love the optimism, I personally cannot see how one could draw this conclusion based on the entire history of our species.

 

[Wandering Monk]

While I love the optimism, I personally cannot see how one could draw this conclusion based on the entire history of our species.

To even have a clue, you would have to measure it. The perspective should be a long one to eliminate availability or recency bias ('It's the worst I can remember, therefore it's the worst it's ever been.)

 

[izzy88]

To even have a clue, you would have to measure it. The perspective should be a long one to eliminate availability or recency bias ('It's the worst I can remember, therefore it's the worst it's ever been.)

When, in documented history, has there ever been world peace?

 

[Wandering Monk]

When, in documented history, has there ever been world peace?

World peace won't just suddenly appear, will it? If you want to know about PROGRESS toward world peace, then we can have a discussion. That could be measured in one form by counting number and intensity of major-state wars.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

When, in documented history, has there ever been world peace?

I believe at one point Gandhi fasted until there was no fighting anywhere. His prime ministers eventually told him that they stopped fighting. But I dunno if this were just India.

Eras of world peace simply do not make the news. It's like saying "no dogs died today." Okay, that may be amazing but it won't make news. Also, how would you prove it?

There are probably days, weeks, months, and even years without war. But when we look at history, before 301 AD, in some cases it was several centuries before a war came.

List of battles before 301 - Wikipedia

3 centuries between the Battle of Banquan and the Battle of Uruk, and these are different countries meaning for them, it was more than that. Then 6 centuries to the next battle.

List of battles since 2001 - Wikipedia

It was a matter of days in some cases. Whatever regime comes with peace in their hand is likely not really for peace. I don't trust these guys.

 

[Agent]

Jer 23 [17] They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
[18] For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
[19] Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
[20] The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

 

[Trailblazer]

While I love the optimism, I personally cannot see how one could draw this conclusion based on the entire history of our species.

I personally cannot see how one would base one's conclusion on the history of our species.
History does not always repeat itself.
I believe this is a new age, the Messianic Age, and world peace was prophesied in the Bible.

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

 

[izzy88]

History does not always repeat itself

I don't think that's how the saying goes...

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think that's how the saying goes...

Sayings are not always true.