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Why would God send good people to Hell just because they dont believe he exists?
- Thread starter Lord_Dweedle
- Start date
paolops181
God rules!
God sends people to hell because of their ignorance of the gospel of Christ even if how good you really are. If they heard the gospel but didn't care about it then God will give thier reward.
"Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded, Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke, I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your terror comes,"
-Pro.1:24-26
"in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power." -2Thes.1:8-9
God loves us that he gave his son for a ransom for us so that through Christ we might be save if we continue in the faith. But to those people that never heard of God & in the gospel this is what the bible says,
" For there is no partiality with God. For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel." -Rom.2:11-16
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Right. Those who have not the law, are not judged by the law. Those who have a portion, are judged by that portion they have been given. It makes sense. (I would argue that everyone has at the least a small portion of the law written in their hearts from the day they are born).
Is not God's law a matter of 'Covenant' rather than a free gift at birth ?
Human 'right and wrong' does not quite compare with the way GOD sees it - hence the 10 Commandments. We have to accept them and are expected to live by them - but who does ? No traditional Christian observes the 4th Sabbath commandment and scripture says if you break ONE it's like breaking all.Jas.2v10.
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
You know, you have quite the interesting view of God. So in your view God sometimes does things purely for entertainment, even if we as people find them horrible?
Rainbow Mage
Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Tell you what, when you bring forth some real proof for this stuff you constantly preach at people, then we'll believe. I wouldn't care, except that you constantly preach it at me and others, so you know what? I want some proof for all these objective truth claims.
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Could you explain what you mean by a matter of "Covenant?" I would like to understand you better before I reply.
Being LDS I can not believe you are ignorant of the new Covenant God is making with spiritual Israel. It's all there in the scriptures (Bible) which can explain it much better than myself.
To understand GOD's law we need to be a little more advanced than a new-born Baby (as you mentioned a few posts back).
GOD (the God of the Bible) starts out IN FAITH and BELIEF.
No amount of evidence and proof would ever satisfy a non-believer so I would be wasting my time. If you don't want to hear what I say just press 'ignore' and you will be left in peace. :yes:
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Being LDS I can not believe you are ignorant of the new Covenant God is making with spiritual Israel. It's all there in the scriptures (Bible) which can explain it much better than myself.
To understand GOD's law we need to be a little more advanced than a new-born Baby (as you mentioned a few posts back).
Okay, yes. I agree. What I am trying to say is that no one has nothing to go off of. You know what I mean? I suppose there are those who are completely free of liability for their actions due to mental capacity or age (being a baby). However nearly everyone has some concept of right and wrong or an idea of what constitues doing good versus doing bad for which they will be held accountable. Do you agree?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Even if there was a god, it doesn't make sense for a supreme creator being to be sadistic and petty enough to torture his creations for all eternity over trivial reasons, especially when said god is supposed to be the embodiment of justice and benevolence. Hell is nothing more than a silly revenge fantasy in mans imagination.
Yes I do agree ! Up to a point most people have some sense of right and wrong. But then we read in Rom.8v7 : the carnal mind (from natural birth) is ENMITY against God for it is not subject to the LAW OF GOD neither indeed can be.
Of course not all people read the Bible and so only have the carnal laws which are natural to them and they will live by them. However these human carnal laws don't sit right with God (as we see in Rom.8v7) they are below HIS standards and need to be improved on to reach GOD's level of required living. Make sense ? :yes:
God will not torture sinners for all eternity.Scripture says they will 'burn to ashes' like any combustible material Mal.4v3. Traditional christianity has caused major confusion, fear and hatred with their erronious teachings they themselves don't understand.
There will be NO eternal torture but there will be death for unrepentant sinners. :yes:
DavyCrocket2003
Well-Known Member
Yeah. Well, I see us as two parts, the natural, carnal self, and the spiritual, divinely touched part. There is a scripture in the Book of Mormon that says "For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be forever and ever until he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord."
However, I believe that our Spirit is a part of us that naturally wants to do good.
no it makes no sense,hence me laughing at christians who even mention hell or fire. such a concept is man made entirely and born out of primitive fear of fire.
Not sure which Bible you got your quote from but it does have a similarity to KJV which I mostly use.
Also I will agree that the spirit in some people tends toward goodness - but even so it is easily tempted away. Meaning well and DOING well are not the same thing. The Bible makes that quite clear.
OneThatGotAway
Servant of Yahweh God Almighty
Shabáth Shalume,
Originally Posted by LovePeaceHappiness:
"I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." ---- Holy Book of Revelation 1:18
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." ---- Holy Book of Revelation 6:8
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."
"And death and hell were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. This is the second death." ---- Holy Book of Revelation 20:13-14
Although the questions that you ask is best answer through a thorough training of the Holy Bible (in particular Revelation) and Christianity; nevertheless...:
1. The 'I am' that was mentioned in the Holy Book of Revelation 6:8 is Yahushuo The Messiah (aka Jesus Christ).
2. The 'pale horse' is a horse having a pale colour which the prophet Yachanan (John) saw in a vision that is to take place in a prophecy not yet fulfilled:
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." ---- Holy Book of Revelation 6:8
3. Death is the absence of life. In this context, it is a place where no life exist.
"Have mercy upon me, O LORD; consider my trouble [which I suffer] of them that hate me, thou that liftest me up from the gates of death:" ---- Mizmur (Psalm) 9:13
4. What is Sea? I'm not sure why you ask that question, but here it is:
A sea generally refers to a large body of salt water, but the term is used in other contexts as well. Most commonly, the term refers to a large expanse of saline water connected with an ocean, and is commonly used as a synonym for ocean.[1] It is also used sometimes to describe a large saline lake that lacks a natural outlet, such as the Caspian Sea. [or the Dead Sea]" ---- Wikapedia, Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5. What is Lake of Fire?
A lake of fire appears, in both Ancient Egyptian and Christian religion, as a place of after-death punishment of the wicked. The phrase is used in four verses of the Book of Revelation. The image was also used by Hippolytus of Rome in about the year 200 and has continued to be used by Christians. ---- Lake of Fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Let me say, that is a very hot place like what you see spewing from the mouth of a volcano; in which the ancient people of Pompeii know all too well around the year AD 79.
http://cn.dk.com/static/cs/cn/11/nf/clipart/volcano/image_volcano001.html
http://www.dorlingkindersley-uk.co.uk/nf/ClipArt/Image/0,,239020_1583958_,00.html
Originally Posted by LovePeaceHappiness:
"I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." ---- Holy Book of Revelation 1:18
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." ---- Holy Book of Revelation 6:8
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."
"And death and hell were cast into the LAKE OF FIRE. This is the second death." ---- Holy Book of Revelation 20:13-14
Although the questions that you ask is best answer through a thorough training of the Holy Bible (in particular Revelation) and Christianity; nevertheless...:
1. The 'I am' that was mentioned in the Holy Book of Revelation 6:8 is Yahushuo The Messiah (aka Jesus Christ).
2. The 'pale horse' is a horse having a pale colour which the prophet Yachanan (John) saw in a vision that is to take place in a prophecy not yet fulfilled:
"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." ---- Holy Book of Revelation 6:8
3. Death is the absence of life. In this context, it is a place where no life exist.
"Have mercy upon me, O LORD; consider my trouble [which I suffer] of them that hate me, thou that liftest me up from the gates of death:" ---- Mizmur (Psalm) 9:13
4. What is Sea? I'm not sure why you ask that question, but here it is:
A sea generally refers to a large body of salt water, but the term is used in other contexts as well. Most commonly, the term refers to a large expanse of saline water connected with an ocean, and is commonly used as a synonym for ocean.[1] It is also used sometimes to describe a large saline lake that lacks a natural outlet, such as the Caspian Sea. [or the Dead Sea]" ---- Wikapedia, Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5. What is Lake of Fire?
A lake of fire appears, in both Ancient Egyptian and Christian religion, as a place of after-death punishment of the wicked. The phrase is used in four verses of the Book of Revelation. The image was also used by Hippolytus of Rome in about the year 200 and has continued to be used by Christians. ---- Lake of Fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Let me say, that is a very hot place like what you see spewing from the mouth of a volcano; in which the ancient people of Pompeii know all too well around the year AD 79.
http://cn.dk.com/static/cs/cn/11/nf/clipart/volcano/image_volcano001.html
http://www.dorlingkindersley-uk.co.uk/nf/ClipArt/Image/0,,239020_1583958_,00.html
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I thank you profusely for your help. I feel that the pale horse is not anything that is yet to occur. Anyway, no rational discussion is possible on this point.
What is the 'fourth part of the earth'? What is the word used in original scripture for 'earth' and what are the possible other meanings of that original word?
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May I dare to ask, whether any of those explanations have any coherent meaning to you? Every one knows what ocean, pale horse and fire mean. Is scripture telling about the sensually known things? If yes, then for what meaning?
There is another kind of problem with "I am". In more than one scripture, "I am the way" occurs. Do we clothe the speaker of "I am the way" with respective cultural clothes? Or should we transcend the cultural bound imagination?