Why was God's name removed from most bibles?

[Glaurung]

What is?

Being able to hand wave anything you don't like away as 'traditions of men'.

Perhaps you realize that the name Jesus is taken from a Latinized rendering of the name, but the original Hebrew pronunciation has been lost, so a rendering of a pronunciation in a language that people recognition has meaning. Just as John, and Daniel, and other names are understood by the reader.

I agree that our ability to invoke God is in no way dependent on any particular rendering of any particular name. It is the OP who claims that salvation requires us to invoke God by the direct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton.

 

[wellwisher]

Many bible translations with a preface will admit that it has been replaced. How many times? Come to find out God's name has been removed over 7,000 times per bible!

There is a proper name for God in Hebrew which is "Yhwh." There is a word in Hebrew which means "lord" and it is "Adonay"-or a similar form of the root word.

Why is it important to know God's name?

Joel 2:32 "And everyone who calls on the name of "YHWH" will be saved..."- This verse is also referenced in the Greek scriptures(New Testament) at Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13.

According to the verses it is of utmost importance to use His name. Many bibles have a rendering of it in Psalm 83:18 "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth."-King James version

Knowing this helps clarify the Greek scripture in Acts 2:34 "For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘The LORD said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand..." which is a quote from the Hebrew scriptures(Old Testament) at Psalm 110:1 "YHWH said to my adonai, 'Sit at my right hand...'"

Ultimately who in the universe would try to hide such a basic bible truth? Since we need to know His name to be saved simply hiding it would be a tactic of Satan. Remember his 1st lie in Genesis? "Certainly you won't die." What a trickster!

My guess it has to do with the evolving understanding of God, who is without limits. Ancient humans had more limitations in understand, than we have to day. Much has changed since the early days.

We no longer call the automobile the horseless carriage, even if that was the original way it was described, when horse and buggy were king and we were transitioning away from natural. Although, we still use the term horsepower to describe the pull strength of the modern horseless carriages.

It now no longer just the horseless carriage, but the SUV, the Pickup Truck, the sport cars, and the luxury sedan. Today the original motor from the days of the original horseless carriage is changing to battery and fuel cells, which make electricity. The term needed to describe the horseless carriage, may soon take on a new name to reflect the evolving paradigm, since it is now even further removed from the original simplicity of nature.

 

[Viker]

Replacing His name with a completely different word with a different meaning is removing it.

If you had oranges on the table and i took them away with and put apples in their place.... the oranges have been removed

If its Gods divine name and HE had it written down where is the command to remove it? Do man's traditions over rule Gods words?

You're replacing God's name just by using the word God. Why? God is not an actual name either.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

@Messianic Israelite The Holy Name of haShem did not include vowels.

Hi Metis. Good morning. In the Inspired Hebrew Scriptures the four letters of the Name appear as yothe hay waw hay in the text. One cannot escape this fact when we read the Hebrew text. The Name appears in the text frequently and each encounter impresses upon us the fact of its importance. It is therefore imperative that we transliterate the Name into English and every other language spoken by men so that ALL may know the personal Name of the one true Mighty One.

The term “transliterate” means “to write or spell (words etc.) in the characters of another alphabet that represent the same sounds”. Therefore the word means to carry across the sounds of words so that the same word will be recognized in the languages when spoken from one language to another.

The King James translators attempted to do this when they retained a phonetic transliteration of the names of the Prophets – Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. Incidentally, the names of the prophets are usually an attempted transliteration of how their names sounded in the Hebrew. The Bible is a Hebrew-Israelite book, and its integral composition is in the Hebrew language. We cannot circumvent this fact. Even though it has been translated into the English language its Hebrew imprint is unmistakable. Consequently, it is imperative that we preserve the true Name of the author of the book, that we reverence Him enough to call upon Him in worship using the Name that He himself has chosen. Otherwise, we will not be assured that we are worshipping the True Mighty One, 1 Corinthians 8:4-7, and Jeremiah 10:10.

Although some authors will make the statement that no letters of the Hebrew alphabet are vowels, any classical Hebrew grammar you would care to peruse will inform you that such a statement is not entirely correct. All of the Hebrew letters can indeed be considered as consonants and they have a consonantal value. But some of them function additionally as vowels and they are so employed. In the past, some scholars have condemned the Jewish historian Josephus for inaccuracies they supposed could be found in the histories. Nevertheless, recent scholarship has proven Josephus to be quite accurate in what he wrote, the Sacred Name being one of them.

Scholars had found fault with Josephus because he made the statement that the Sacred Name was four vowels. Here is the quote:

“A mitre also of fine linen encompassed his head, which was tied by a blue riband, about which there was another golden crown, in which was graven the sacred name [of the Almighty]: it consists of four vowels”

This is a description of the headgear worn by the high priest of Israel as his official ceremonial garb. Josephus confirmed that he saw this ceremonial attire and he identified the Sacred Name which was engraven into the golden band that held in place the turban (mitre) of the high priest. Since he was familiar with the Hebrew language as his native tongue, who are we to argue that it did not consist of vowels? But scholars customarily sell manuscripts by the arguments they invent, consequently some of them have declared Josephus to be in error.

But who is right? Any Hebrew grammar will verify that Hebrew does in fact have vowel letters (letters of the Hebrew alphabet bearing vowel sounds functioning as vowels). Indeed the Hebrew language has a system of vowels written under the consonants. These are little marks that indicate which vowel is to be pronounced, but these marks were added to the text during the days when the Ben Asher family edited the ancient texts and developed the Masoretic text. This occurred around the 7th century (600 – 900 C.E) of our common era. The reason why the vowel points were introduced was so that the ability to read the Hebrew text would never be lost among the Jews of the dispersion.

Let us peruse several Hebrew grammars to learn what they say on the subject. Weingreen says (Oxford University Press, 1959):

“However, LONG BEFORE the introduction of vowel-signs it was felt that the main vowel-sounds should be indicated in writing and so the three letters (yothe, waw, hay) were used to represent long vowels…”

(pages 7-8). Do you realize what you have just read? Here is a universally recognized scholar who has agreed with Josephus (as do all the Hebrew grammarians right down the line!). Each one of the letters mentioned is used in the Heavenly Father’s Name.

If you wish more verification to this fact you may obtain the following sources, A Beginner’s Handbook to Biblical Hebrew, Marks and Rogers, Abingdon Press, 1958, p. 7; How the Hebrew Language Grew, Horowitz, KTAV Publishing, 1960, pp. 333-334.

Treating the Tetragrammaton as vowels will produce the English equivalent of I-A-U-E. Pronounce them slowly and then rapidly. You will discover you are saying Yahweh. I can explain this in more detail for you if you like. According to the Bible, Yahweh has one Name, and He expects His people to use it. His Law actually prohibits that the names of other mighty ones not come out of our mouths. We in the Assemblies of Yahweh know who we worship, but the people of the world don't even know who they are worshiping, and if they are not worshiping Yahweh, who is their worship directed towards?

 

[Messianic Israelite]

The idea of pronouncing the tetragrammaton as Yahweh is only a GUESS. We certainly do NOT know that this is the correct pronunciation. I think that taking the chance that we are mispronouncing is saying we don't care if we disrespect God by mispronouncing his divine name.


Sorry, but I do not accept the NT as an authoritative source. I am not interested in Yeshua, who was just a nice Jewish man who tried to be the messiah and failed.

It is Israel that is God's first born son. Exodus 4:22 "Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son"

Hi IndigoChild5559. Good afternoon. Pronouncing the Tetragrammaton as Yahweh is not a guess. Is Yahweh really going to allow the pronunciation of His Name to be forgotten? Have you forgotten the Law of Yahweh? It should be our meditation day and night. Exodus 23:13 says "
13 And in all things that I have said to you take heed: and make no mention of the name of other elohim, neither let it be heard
out of your mouth." How do you see this Law? It's obvious to me that Yahweh wants us to use His Name, and not any other name, not even to direct worship towards Him. I've already shown evidence in msg #64 that the Tetragrammaton can be treated as vowels. I think it would be reasonable to explain this a bit further. The yothe is the smallest letter in the Hebrew alphabet and has the vowel sound of a long I (pronounced like a long E as in the word machine). The hay has the vowel sound of an A, (aw or ah), The waw has the vowel sound of a long U. The hay standing at the end of a masculine name has the vowel sound of a short E. The Hebrew long A sound (pronounced aw) is a femimine ending at the end of a name. Now if we combine these letters we have the English word in the letters IAUE. Pronounce them slowly and then rapidly. You will discover you are saying Yahweh.

You said:

Sorry, but I do not accept the NT as an authoritative source. I am not interested in Yeshua, who was just a nice Jewish man who tried to be the messiah and failed.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion. However, I would like to correct you that the Messiah's name wasn't Yeshua but Yahshua. The Jews began to use 'Ye' as a substitute for 'Yah' to prevent the Name (Yah) from appearing in names. The Messiah's Name was Yahshua which means Yahweh is salvation and he did not fail as the Messiah. My Savior lived a perfect life, being raised the third day, triumphing over death and giving His people the hope of a resurrection also, the firstborn of the dead. Revelation 1:

"5 and from Yahshua the Messiah, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him that loves us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood; 6 and he made us a kingdom of priests to his El and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen." (The Sacred Scriptures Bethel Edition)

It is Israel that is God's first born son. Exodus 4:22 "Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son"

Yes, although in Jeremiah 31:9 it tells us that Ephraim is the first-born. Israel means, one who rules himself as El.

 

[seekandfind]

No sir. You can only achieve an approximation. There is no way to fully understand any text unless you can read it in its original language. An approximation will always be inferior.

Can you give an example of something I'm missing because i dont know Hebrew?

 

[seekandfind]

Is it more important to be a Christian or to know and call on the name of God?

Im not sure why you are needing one thing to be more important than the other...knowing Gods name is part of being a Christian.

"I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”- John 17:26

“I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word."-John 17:6

"This means everlasting life: their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." John 17:3

 

[seekandfind]

Nevertheless Romans 10 does look like the OT quote about calling on the name of YHWH is being applied to Jesus, just as many other OT passages about YHWH are applied to Jesus in the NT.

Sometimes what applies to Yhwh does apply to Jesus. Jesus aligned his will with Gods. Jesus was His spokesman much like the angel in the burning bush was not Yhwh but was attributed as such.

"Then Jehovah’s angel appeared to him in a flame of fire in the midst of a thornbush....When Jehovah saw that he went over to look, God called to him out of the thornbush and said: “Moses! Moses!” to which he said: “Here I am.”- Ex 3:3-4

And just like Revelation can be applied to many- God, Jesus, an angel, John- it ultimately comes from Yhwh.
"A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John" Rev 1:1

 

[seekandfind]

Being able to hand wave anything you don't like away as 'traditions of men'.


I agree that our ability to invoke God is in no way dependent on any particular rendering of any particular name. It is the OP who claims that salvation requires us to invoke God by the direct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton.

The op doesnt imply it needed to be the direct rendering nor did any of my comments. Gods name was placed in the op to show what the scriptures said. They didnt say adonay(lord), which most bibles imply.

 

[Wandering Monk]

The op doesnt imply it needed to be the direct rendering nor did any of my comments. Gods name was placed in the op to show what the scriptures said. They didnt say adonay(lord), which most bibles imply.

Okay, so then the question is 'So what?'

 

[seekandfind]

You're replacing God's name just by using the word God. Why? God is not an actual name either.

Me having a general conversation is obviously a different subject than a bible translation removing it.

 

[Kenny]

Many bible translations with a preface will admit that it has been replaced. How many times? Come to find out God's name has been removed over 7,000 times per bible!

There is a proper name for God in Hebrew which is "Yhwh." There is a word in Hebrew which means "lord" and it is "Adonay"-or a similar form of the root word.

Why is it important to know God's name?

Joel 2:32 "And everyone who calls on the name of "YHWH" will be saved..."- This verse is also referenced in the Greek scriptures(New Testament) at Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13.

According to the verses it is of utmost importance to use His name. Many bibles have a rendering of it in Psalm 83:18 "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth."-King James version

Knowing this helps clarify the Greek scripture in Acts 2:34 "For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘The LORD said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand..." which is a quote from the Hebrew scriptures(Old Testament) at Psalm 110:1 "YHWH said to my adonai, 'Sit at my right hand...'"

Ultimately who in the universe would try to hide such a basic bible truth? Since we need to know His name to be saved simply hiding it would be a tactic of Satan. Remember his 1st lie in Genesis? "Certainly you won't die." What a trickster!

It is a shame that so much is lost in the English translations. Greek words and especially Hebrew words have so much more meanings. Thankful for the study helps.

I also find much more meaning in the correctly translated word "Father"! I never addressed my dad with his proper name as he told me, "Anyone can call me by my proper name but only YOU can call me by the name "Dad"! Meant so much more to me than all of his proper names.

That being said, it is great to understand His proper name and titles as it reveals who He is.

 

[seekandfind]

Okay, so then the question is 'So what?'

You deny its mans traditions that ceased the use of Gods name when its an admitted by some Jews. Perhaps you have the answer.

 

[seekandfind]

It is a shame that so much is lost in the English translations. Greek words and especially Hebrew words have so much more meanings. Thankful for the study helps.

I also find much more meaning in the correctly translated word "Father"! I never addressed my dad with his proper name as he told me, "Anyone can call me by my proper name but only YOU can call me by the name "Dad"! Meant so much more to me than all of his proper names.

That being said, it is great to understand His proper name and titles as it reveals who He is.

It was basically a command to know and use it

But Moses said to the true God: “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is his name?’ What should I say to them?” 14 So God said to Moses: “I Will Become What I Choose to Become.” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘I Will Become has sent me to you.’” 15 Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation." Ex 3:13-15

 

[metis]

Hi Metis. Good morning. In the Inspired Hebrew Scriptures the four letters of the Name appear as yothe hay waw hay in the text. One cannot escape this fact when we read the Hebrew text. The Name appears in the text frequently and each encounter impresses upon us the fact of its importance. It is therefore imperative that we transliterate the Name into English and every other language spoken by men so that ALL may know the personal Name of the one true Mighty One.

The term “transliterate” means “to write or spell (words etc.) in the characters of another alphabet that represent the same sounds”. Therefore the word means to carry across the sounds of words so that the same word will be recognized in the languages when spoken from one language to another.

The King James translators attempted to do this when they retained a phonetic transliteration of the names of the Prophets – Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc. Incidentally, the names of the prophets are usually an attempted transliteration of how their names sounded in the Hebrew. The Bible is a Hebrew-Israelite book, and its integral composition is in the Hebrew language. We cannot circumvent this fact. Even though it has been translated into the English language its Hebrew imprint is unmistakable. Consequently, it is imperative that we preserve the true Name of the author of the book, that we reverence Him enough to call upon Him in worship using the Name that He himself has chosen. Otherwise, we will not be assured that we are worshipping the True Mighty One, 1 Corinthians 8:4-7, and Jeremiah 10:10.

Although some authors will make the statement that no letters of the Hebrew alphabet are vowels, any classical Hebrew grammar you would care to peruse will inform you that such a statement is not entirely correct. All of the Hebrew letters can indeed be considered as consonants and they have a consonantal value. But some of them function additionally as vowels and they are so employed. In the past, some scholars have condemned the Jewish historian Josephus for inaccuracies they supposed could be found in the histories. Nevertheless, recent scholarship has proven Josephus to be quite accurate in what he wrote, the Sacred Name being one of them.

Scholars had found fault with Josephus because he made the statement that the Sacred Name was four vowels. Here is the quote:


This is a description of the headgear worn by the high priest of Israel as his official ceremonial garb. Josephus confirmed that he saw this ceremonial attire and he identified the Sacred Name which was engraven into the golden band that held in place the turban (mitre) of the high priest. Since he was familiar with the Hebrew language as his native tongue, who are we to argue that it did not consist of vowels? But scholars customarily sell manuscripts by the arguments they invent, consequently some of them have declared Josephus to be in error.

But who is right? Any Hebrew grammar will verify that Hebrew does in fact have vowel letters (letters of the Hebrew alphabet bearing vowel sounds functioning as vowels). Indeed the Hebrew language has a system of vowels written under the consonants. These are little marks that indicate which vowel is to be pronounced, but these marks were added to the text during the days when the Ben Asher family edited the ancient texts and developed the Masoretic text. This occurred around the 7th century (600 – 900 C.E) of our common era. The reason why the vowel points were introduced was so that the ability to read the Hebrew text would never be lost among the Jews of the dispersion.

Let us peruse several Hebrew grammars to learn what they say on the subject. Weingreen says (Oxford University Press, 1959):

(pages 7-8). Do you realize what you have just read? Here is a universally recognized scholar who has agreed with Josephus (as do all the Hebrew grammarians right down the line!). Each one of the letters mentioned is used in the Heavenly Father’s Name.

If you wish more verification to this fact you may obtain the following sources, A Beginner’s Handbook to Biblical Hebrew, Marks and Rogers, Abingdon Press, 1958, p. 7; How the Hebrew Language Grew, Horowitz, KTAV Publishing, 1960, pp. 333-334.

Treating the Tetragrammaton as vowels will produce the English equivalent of I-A-U-E. Pronounce them slowly and then rapidly. You will discover you are saying Yahweh. I can explain this in more detail for you if you like. According to the Bible, Yahweh has one Name, and He expects His people to use it. His Law actually prohibits that the names of other mighty ones not come out of our mouths. We in the Assemblies of Yahweh know who we worship, but the people of the world don't even know who they are worshiping, and if they are not worshiping Yahweh, who is their worship directed towards?

Hello back, and all I was saying is that if it's wrong to use "God" instead of "YHWH", then why did you repeatedly use "God"?

IMO, a name is just a name, and probably most of us have more than just 1. My wife has a lotta names for me, but I can't post some of them on a religious site. Yes, "YHWH" was highly revered in Judaism, and I can understand why, although there's much debate as to where it actually comes from and why. Either way, I don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[seekandfind]

Hello back, and all I was saying is that if it's wrong to use "God" instead of "YHWH", then why did you repeatedly use "God"?

IMO, a name is just a name, and probably most of us have more than just 1. My wife has a lotta names for me, but I can't post some of them on a religious site. Yes, "YHWH" was highly revered in Judaism, and I can understand why, although there's much debate as to where it actually comes from and why. Either way, I don't lose any sleep over it.

I never said its wrong to use God when refering to him- he is God.

 

[rosends]

It is therefore imperative that we transliterate the Name into English and every other language spoken by men so that ALL may know the personal Name of the one true Mighty One.

Except that the 4 letter name isn't a personal name, but a title describing a quality and referring to an aspect.

The King James translators attempted to do this when they retained a phonetic transliteration of the names of the Prophets – Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc.

Then by the definition you cited, they did a poor job with Moshe, Yeshayahu and Yirmiyahu. They had the letters to transliterate and yet they didn't.

Treating the Tetragrammaton as vowels will produce the English equivalent of I-A-U-E. Pronounce them slowly and then rapidly. You will discover you are saying Yahweh. I can explain this in more detail for you if you like. According to the Bible, Yahweh has one Name, and He expects His people to use it. His Law actually prohibits that the names of other mighty ones not come out of our mouths. We in the Assemblies of Yahweh know who we worship, but the people of the world don't even know who they are worshiping, and if they are not worshiping Yahweh, who is their worship directed towards?

Let's assume for a moment that the Hebrew letters are actually vowels indicators and not consonants. Which vowels? You quote "long" ones, but each vowel sound has a long sound to it. The Yod could be a long O or a long U or a long I or a long E. Let's assume it is a long I:
EYE (a clear English word to represent the sound)
then the hey. It is clear you want it to represent the long A (like Ay)
Then the waw/vav. For some reason, you decide it is a U though no long U sound shows up in Yahweh (and if the hey is a long A, no H-consonant shows up either). The vav in Hebrew can be a long U or a long O. So it seems your reading should be

eye-ay-owe-ay

Your Assembly might want to change its name.

 

[Nakosis]

Many bible translations with a preface will admit that it has been replaced. How many times? Come to find out God's name has been removed over 7,000 times per bible!

There is a proper name for God in Hebrew which is "Yhwh." There is a word in Hebrew which means "lord" and it is "Adonay"-or a similar form of the root word.

Why is it important to know God's name?

Joel 2:32 "And everyone who calls on the name of "YHWH" will be saved..."- This verse is also referenced in the Greek scriptures(New Testament) at Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13.

According to the verses it is of utmost importance to use His name. Many bibles have a rendering of it in Psalm 83:18 "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth."-King James version

Knowing this helps clarify the Greek scripture in Acts 2:34 "For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘The LORD said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand..." which is a quote from the Hebrew scriptures(Old Testament) at Psalm 110:1 "YHWH said to my adonai, 'Sit at my right hand...'"

Ultimately who in the universe would try to hide such a basic bible truth? Since we need to know His name to be saved simply hiding it would be a tactic of Satan. Remember his 1st lie in Genesis? "Certainly you won't die." What a trickster!

From my search into this, YHWH is not the name of God. It is also a mnemonic. The name of God is also the word of creation. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and all that.

So the name of of God, the Word of God is to powerful for any human to know. If man were to learn the true "name" of God then man would be able to unmake creation.

YHWY represent the four elements of creation. The four elements that provide the structure underlying the universe. What science is ultimately looking for. If man could learn to undo this fundamental structure, the universe would cease to exist. That is why the true name of God is too powerful for anyone to know.

Not claiming this is true, just what I was taught.

 

[YoursTrue]

Being able to hand wave anything you don't like away as 'traditions of men'.


I agree that our ability to invoke God is in no way dependent on any particular rendering of any particular name. It is the OP who claims that salvation requires us to invoke God by the direct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton.

If that were so then only those with the proper pronunciation could be saved. Saved from what, by the way? Furthermore, even IF a person were to say the name correctly according to whatever they think it is because NO ONE TODAY KNOWS how the original Hebrew was said -- the name could be used in a bad way, which would not help the person be "saved."

 

[Left Coast]

Because there are many translations you can know if its accurate. They agree with the others or the dont. While verbatium might very, the main message will remain.

Or so you hope? Again, the more direct route would be to just reference the original.