TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
No, I'm just saying (and certainly viewing it in the Christian viewpoint) that not all prayers are good prayer as stipulated by Jesus. So, if three instances I gave are correct, just because someone is praying doesn't translate into an effectual prayer.
There are many types of prayer, a prayer of consecration, a prayer of intercession, a declarative prayer, a prayer of petition, a prayer of thanksgiving etc.
We know that you have certain antibiotics for certain illnesses. A wrong medicine won't produce the same results as a correct one.
Again, if you are not pleased with these studies, you are more then welcome to repeat them with theists of your approval. And remember, I'll bet all my money that the outcome will be the same.
Could me paying a drunk in the street and saying i will pay you $20 if you pray for me right now produce the same results as going to a believer? Of course not.
I find it quite hilarious that you think that this is even remotely comparable to how it worked in the mentioned studies.
So, building a lego set is the same as being a doctor? Your analogy really isn't a good one.
Did you really lose track of your own point this fast?
The analogy had nothing to do with doctors. The analogy concerned your comment about how your bible provides instructions on how to pray - while also claiming the majority of people do it wrong.
If a handfull of people do it wrong, you can blame the people of not following the instructions properly. When the majority of people get it wrong, then it's time to question the quality and clarity of the instructions instead.
Relative survival rates for non-small-cell lung cancer (NSCLC): Almost 90% of lung cancers are this type. The National Cancer Institute’s database breaks down the cancers by how far the tumors have spread. These relative survival rates are the average percentages of people who are alive 5 years after diagnosis. They don’t include people who died of something other than lung cancer.
Lung Cancer Survival Rates & Stages
- Localized (cancer is confined to one lung): 60%
- Regional (cancer has spread outside the lung or to lymph nodes): 33%
- Distant (cancer has moved farther, such as to the brain, the other lung, and bones): 6%
- All stages: 23%
My point is simply this. Just because it isn't 100% effective, we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Prayer may not be 100% in its results... but we do get results.
You keep claiming this.... it's simply not true.
The fact is that cancer treatments significantly increase survival rates. Natural remissions are not the rule, they are the exception. Untreated cancers are death sentences more often then not.
In fact, in order to even be officially recognised as a treatment, the treatment needs to pass that test! It needs to be demonstrated through clinical studies that it actually works.
Cancer treatments off course passed that test.
Prayer, as has been pointed out several times now, has not. It has been tested and the results are consisted with no effect at all and in other cases no better then a placebo (which, just to remind you, doesn't cure anything... it just gives the patient the illusion of feeling better).
loL... hardly.
In our church alone.
and the list can go on.
- Emily - Stage 4 cancer - months to live... that was years ago - they couldn't find the cancer
- Lissette - Inoperable brain tumor - less that a year to live - tumor gone after prayer
- Austin - degenerative bone disease - eventual life in a wheel chair - now in the the army with no bone disease - no treatment
Anecdotal stories are a dime a dozen and don't demonstrate anything at all.
So, I wouldn't agree as would millions of others.
Off course you wouldn't... this is your faith based belief.
Meanwhile, all you have are anecdotes. And whenever it is actually put to a proper test, it fails as hard as homeopathy, crystal healings, sjaman voodoo and sacrificing a bunny to the gods.
PS - Forgive me if before i came across as insensitive. Not my desire.
It's all good.
For the record, nothing in this exchange came accross as insensitive to me.