Why the Need for Religion?

[Magic Man]

I consider myself an atheist. I also don't subscribe to any religion, at least not right now. Why have people always felt the need for religion? Why does it make people feel better just to believe that there is something else to this life? Personally I believe that all religion is just arbitrarily made up by humans.

I like some ideas in different religions, but I don't feel like I want to be a part of any particular religious group. I feel like being part of an organized religion means believing in things that some other person just made up. So why does it seem to be such an important part of human life?

Also, what would it be like if our ancestors had not dreamed up gods and other forces? What would the world be like now without organized religion?

 

[Storm]

Why have people always felt the need for religion?

Because people have always had mystical experiences and the compulsion to understand them.

Personally I believe that all religion is just arbitrarily made up by humans.

Well, comforting as that may be, it's just not that simple.

 

[Magic Man]

Because people have always had mystical experiences and the compulsion to understand them.


Well, comforting as that may be, it's just not that simple.

For one I don't find that notion comforting, just realistic. Why isn't it that simple? Even if people have mystical experiences, why come up with all these rules and laws to weigh it down? Why try to teach everone else what you believe? Why not just say "Hey, I had this experience, and here's what I think is going on, maybe this knowledge will help you in life"? Even if I believe that the Christian version of God exists, for instance, why do I then have to believe that I shouldn't have sex before marriage?

 

[Storm]

For one I don't find that notion comforting, just realistic. Why isn't it that simple?

It's never that simple. Humans are complicated, messy animals. If you truly find it realistic, then you haven't actually thought it through. If it were just made up, why would anyone believe it?

Even if people have mystical experiences, why come up with all these rules and laws to weigh it down?

You'll find that the actual mystics rarely do. That comes later.

Why try to teach everone else what you believe?

Because that's what people DO. We communicate. We created language, art, music, dance, all in the service of communication. We have a deep, primal NEED to be understood. Why in the world wouldn't any person try to teach people what they believe?

Why not just say "Hey, I had this experience, and here's what I think is going on, maybe this knowledge will help you in life"?

How do you know that's not how religion started?

Even if I believe that the Christian version of God exists, for instance, why do I then have to believe that I shouldn't have sex before marriage?

You don't. I know plenty of Christians who don't. But to play devil's advocate for a moment: If you believe in Christianity, it teaches that strict sexual codes are dictated by God. If you want to please GOd, you follow the rules.

 

[Popeyesays]

Why did Plato need to write the Republic, or any philosopher seek to explain the infinite?

If we did not have rational minds we would not seek reasons. We do have rational minds and we do seek reasons. It's the difference between being a human and an earthworm.

Regards,
Scott

 

[lilithu]

I consider myself an atheist. I also don't subscribe to any religion, at least not right now. Why have people always felt the need for religion? Why does it make people feel better just to believe that there is something else to this life? Personally I believe that all religion is just arbitrarily made up by humans.

I like some ideas in different religions, but I don't feel like I want to be a part of any particular religious group. I feel like being part of an organized religion means believing in things that some other person just made up. So why does it seem to be such an important part of human life?

Also, what would it be like if our ancestors had not dreamed up gods and other forces? What would the world be like now without organized religion?

What I don't understand is why people who don't believe feel the need to tell people who do believe that they're just doing it to make themselves feel better. I see this as no different from a religious adherent telling others that only his way is the truth.

 

[Izdaari]

Well, I have no need for religion. But I don't think people just made it up. I think God revealed Himself to humanity, and that while most religions have some truth, and some more than others, Christianity has the most truth, and the most important truth. I don't believe it because I need to, I believe it because I'm convinced the Gospel accounts are historically accurate, and that it happened just as described. Of course, I don't expect you to believe it on my say so. I'm just sharing where I'm at.

 

[Magic Man]

It's never that simple. Humans are complicated, messy animals. If you truly find it realistic, then you haven't actually thought it through. If it were just made up, why would anyone believe it?


You'll find that the actual mystics rarely do. That comes later.


Because that's what people DO. We communicate. We created language, art, music, dance, all in the service of communication. We have a deep, primal NEED to be understood. Why in the world wouldn't any person try to teach people what they believe?


How do you know that's not how religion started?


You don't. I know plenty of Christians who don't. But to play devil's advocate for a moment: If you believe in Christianity, it teaches that strict sexual codes are dictated by God. If you want to please GOd, you follow the rules.

It's precisely because I've thought about it that I think it's realistic to not believe in organized religion. Religion in general doesn't make sense, which is why it usually requires faith. Some religions are more logical and rational than others, but all organized religion expects a certain amount of faith in something. Even if you believe in Christianity, you have to admit that it would be more logical if there were no God. That's not to say that there is no God, but it doesn't make as much human sense, and again that's where faith comes in.

So why is there is the need by others to reduce the original experience by another person to nonsensical rites, laws and rules? Why not try to figure it out for yourself instead of following what someone else says?

It's more a question of why would you try to make someone believe what you do. I can discuss this stuff on here without ever expecting you to believe what I do. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just challenge people to think about things differently than they have in the past.

It might be how religion started, but somewhere along the line, some people took it a step further in forcing their views on others.

What I mean is that even most people who grow up one religion and question it at some point, end up feeling the need to belong to some religion. I have felt it myself, and I'm curious as to why it happens. I'd be much happier going back to Christianity or joining another religion, because I'd belong to something. It would make me feel better, but I don't feel like I need to subscribe to an entire religion just because I believe in some of their teachings. It seems like people just want to label themselves something to make themselves feel more secure.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Why have people always felt the need for religion?

So, if you would think about it, couldn't you give an answer to your own question?
Humans are curious and want to know the things they don't know yet. Not everything can be known, so the rest is filled in. Theists do that by God, atheists by denial and non-theists and agnosts by leaving it open.

With that people love to be in a group. You can talk about the same things, do the same things, help eachother, etc. It gives advantages.

So what about people joining a religion did you not understand?>

 

[Phasmid]

It's precisely because I've thought about it that I think it's realistic to not believe in organized religion. Religion in general doesn't make sense, which is why it usually requires faith. Some religions are more logical and rational than others, but all organized religion expects a certain amount of faith in something. Even if you believe in Christianity, you have to admit that it would be more logical if there were no God. That's not to say that there is no God, but it doesn't make as much human sense, and again that's where faith comes in.

Believing in Christianity would be a lot more irrational if there were no god.

So why is there is the need by others to reduce the original experience by another person to nonsensical rites, laws and rules? Why not try to figure it out for yourself instead of following what someone else says?

It might be how religion started, but somewhere along the line, some people took it a step further in forcing their views on others.

That's assuming religion is derived from these experiences.

What I mean is that even most people who grow up one religion and question it at some point, end up feeling the need to belong to some religion. I have felt it myself, and I'm curious as to why it happens. I'd be much happier going back to Christianity or joining another religion, because I'd belong to something. It would make me feel better, but I don't feel like I need to subscribe to an entire religion just because I believe in some of their teachings. It seems like people just want to label themselves something to make themselves feel more secure.

Agreed. I think the same applies to militant atheists.

 

[Magic Man]

So, if you would think about it, couldn't you give an answer to your own question?
Humans are curious and want to know the things they don't know yet. Not everything can be known, so the rest is filled in. Theists do that by God, atheists by denial and non-theists and agnosts by leaving it open.

With that people love to be in a group. You can talk about the same things, do the same things, help eachother, etc. It gives advantages.

So what about people joining a religion did you not understand?>

Yeah, I guess I already have my answer. I think I just wanted to get other perspectives. Sometimes, just when I think I have the answer, someone brings up something new, and I realize I don't know as much as I thought.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Why the Need for Religion?

Dunno. Why the need for the Fine Arts? Philosophy? Music? Language?

We like to communicate and to understand/interpret all that has meaning to us.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Storm]

It's precisely because I've thought about it that I think it's realistic to not believe in organized religion.

I think we have a miscommunication here. I was saying it's not realistic or well thought out to say that religion started because people just made it up out of the blue.

I actually agree with you that organized religion is not that great.

So why is there is the need by others to reduce the original experience by another person to nonsensical rites, laws and rules? Why not try to figure it out for yourself instead of following what someone else says?

Now that I can't answer. Spiritual laziness, maybe? I think most of the rules come in after it's already organized, with people more interested in control than faith.

Rituals, though.... Humans in general like rituals, I don't know why. I find many of them quite powerful myself.

It's more a question of why would you try to make someone believe what you do. I can discuss this stuff on here without ever expecting you to believe what I do. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just challenge people to think about things differently than they have in the past.

Dominance, I guess. I don't understand it myself, but there have always been people who wanted to control everyone else. Religion is just another tool for such people, and a singularly effective one at that.

It might be how religion started, but somewhere along the line, some people took it a step further in forcing their views on others.

Sad but true.

What I mean is that even most people who grow up one religion and question it at some point, end up feeling the need to belong to some religion. I have felt it myself, and I'm curious as to why it happens. I'd be much happier going back to Christianity or joining another religion, because I'd belong to something. It would make me feel better, but I don't feel like I need to subscribe to an entire religion just because I believe in some of their teachings. It seems like people just want to label themselves something to make themselves feel more secure.

It's a social thing for me - I attend a UU church. I like them because you're not expected to take on anyone's belief system. In fact, you're encouraged to figure things out for yourself.

 

[Magic Man]

It's a social thing for me - I attend a UU church. I like them because you're not expected to take on anyone's belief system. In fact, you're encouraged to figure things out for yourself.

That actually sounds OK.

 

[Starfish]

I consider myself an atheist. I also don't subscribe to any religion, at least not right now. Why have people always felt the need for religion? Why does it make people feel better just to believe that there is something else to this life? Personally I believe that all religion is just arbitrarily made up by humans.

I like some ideas in different religions, but I don't feel like I want to be a part of any particular religious group. I feel like being part of an organized religion means believing in things that some other person just made up. So why does it seem to be such an important part of human life?

Also, what would it be like if our ancestors had not dreamed up gods and other forces? What would the world be like now without organized religion?

Have you considered that possibly you just haven't found the right one?

I agree with you on many religions, though I believe there is much good in most of them. Anything that motivates people to behave better, can't be all bad.

But if you knew God had actually organized a religion himself, that actually wasn't man-made, wouldn't you want to find it?

 

[Magic Man]

Have you considered that possibly you just haven't found the right one?

I agree with you on many religions, though I believe there is much good in most of them. Anything that motivates people to behave better, can't be all bad.

But if you knew God had actually organized a religion himself, that actually wasn't man-made, wouldn't you want to find it?

Well, yes, if I knew that there was such a thing as a god and a religion centered around it, I'd definitely want to find it. Then it would be a lot easier, though. At least that way I'd know that it exists.

It's possible that I haven't found the right one. My main thing is that organized religion seems like a good idea ruined by followers. Many people have good ideas concerning religious topics, like the ideas that founded most of the major religions. The problem is that unoriginal and unintelligent people take these concepts and distort them, and add their own closed-minded ideas to them, and what you get is an organized religion with a good thought at the center but with a lot of other superfluous stuff that gets passed down from generation to generation and perpetuated until it gets to the point where people feel wrong for not believing every little intricacy. You lose the original idea in a bunch of rules and laws. Even more "open" religions like Buddhism have some of these superfluous ideas. I just don't understand subscribing to a bunch of rules or ideas just because someone else says they are true, just because they are part of a belief system which contains some things that seem to be true.

And, by the way, I don't think religion is all bad. It gives a lot of people a purpose and a sense of community that they couldn't find otherwise. It has obviously produced many good people who make the world a better place because of their religion. I see it as about 50/50, thoug. With all of the good it's brought, it's brought at least as much bad, too, I think.

 

[Starfish]

Well, yes, if I knew that there was such a thing as a god and a religion centered around it, I'd definitely want to find it. Then it would be a lot easier, though. At least that way I'd know that it exists.

It's possible that I haven't found the right one. My main thing is that organized religion seems like a good idea ruined by followers. Many people have good ideas concerning religious topics, like the ideas that founded most of the major religions. The problem is that unoriginal and unintelligent people take these concepts and distort them, and add their own closed-minded ideas to them, and what you get is an organized religion with a good thought at the center but with a lot of other superfluous stuff that gets passed down from generation to generation and perpetuated until it gets to the point where people feel wrong for not believing every little intricacy. You lose the original idea in a bunch of rules and laws. Even more "open" religions like Buddhism have some of these superfluous ideas. I just don't understand subscribing to a bunch of rules or ideas just because someone else says they are true, just because they are part of a belief system which contains some things that seem to be true.

And, by the way, I don't think religion is all bad. It gives a lot of people a purpose and a sense of community that they couldn't find otherwise. It has obviously produced many good people who make the world a better place because of their religion. I see it as about 50/50, thoug. With all of the good it's brought, it's brought at least as much bad, too, I think.

I think if I were in your situation and had seen what you've seen, I'd feel exactly the same. But I don't think God has forsaken this world and is more involved than you realize. The truth is out there and you can ask him to lead you to it.

 

[Magic Man]

I think if I were in your situation and had seen what you've seen, I'd feel exactly the same. But I don't think God has forsaken this world and is more involved than you realize. The truth is out there and you can ask him to lead you to it.

I don't think God has forsaken the world. I just think that, given the way things are, there is no way a god like the Christian or Islamic one exists. And that's just it, I can't ask him to lead me to the truth, because to me there is no "him" to ask. To me, the truth is that there is nothing more to life than what we experience here. There might be other intelligent life in the universe, and there might be other higher forces than we currently know of, but everything I've learned leads me to the conclusion that there is no higher intelligent force controlling anything. It's just like everything you've learned so far has brought you to the conclusion that God does exist, I'm just the opposite.

 

[Starfish]

I don't think God has forsaken the world. I just think that, given the way things are, there is no way a god like the Christian or Islamic one exists. And that's just it, I can't ask him to lead me to the truth, because to me there is no "him" to ask. To me, the truth is that there is nothing more to life than what we experience here. There might be other intelligent life in the universe, and there might be other higher forces than we currently know of, but everything I've learned leads me to the conclusion that there is no higher intelligent force controlling anything. It's just like everything you've learned so far has brought you to the conclusion that God does exist, I'm just the opposite.

How sad.

 

[Magic Man]

How sad.

Why is that sad to you?