Why the Hell . . . .

[BSM1]

It's said that hell was originally created as a place for Satan and his angels. (From what a lot of Christians have said, evidently Satan hasn't found his way there yet, as he's still leading us good humans astray.) Fine, but then god decided to use hell as a final resting place for those of us who fail to toe his line.

So what's the deal here? Was hell going to waste with no Satan to burn? Or does god simply get a kick out of making people suffer?

Just what is accomplished by putting people in hell?


.

Might want to refer to Paradise Lost by John Milton.

 

[Draka]

Naw, that's not it either. If they don't believe it, and don't want to hear it, they wouldn't go to sites that have people that believe it, They wouldn't "bring up" the subject themselves.

You think that only religious websites is where people encounter such beliefs? Really? People hear it all the time. The persistent relative that wants to "help". The "well-meaning" co-worker who thinks they are doing something good. The street preacher who is just being annoying. Perhaps the issue may be discussed here, but it happens everywhere and who knows? Perhaps some here that may actually stop and think about it might be those types of people away from this site. The "well-meaning" thumper.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

You think that only religious websites is where people encounter such beliefs? Really? People hear it all the time. The persistent relative that wants to "help". The "well-meaning" co-worker who thinks they are doing something good. The street preacher who is just being annoying. Perhaps the issue may be discussed here, but it happens everywhere and who knows? Perhaps some here that may actually stop and think about it might be those types of people away from this site. The "well-meaning" thumper.

Do you believe the world is flat? If not, do you visit sites where people do believe that, asking questions and making comments on such sites?

 

[Draka]

Do you believe the world is flat? If not, do you visit sites where people do believe that, asking questions and making comments on such sites?

Considering that that belief is rare and sites for that belief are both specialized and rare, the chance of encountering those who actually believe that and like to push that belief is about nil, so why bother? But this is a place for many beliefs, not just that one, so it's not like people are coming specifically to this site to ask about Hell, it's a subject that just will come up when speaking of religion in general.

You would just rather believe that people who use questions to point out flaws in a position are actually questioning for some internal conundrum purpose when that simply isn't the case. Often times questions are asked a tool to make others think about a position, not because they sincerely want some life changing answer. Look up "rhetorical". There is no logical purpose for Hell unless deity is malevolent, and that doesn't jive with what else those who believe in Hell want others to believe about their deity. Logic is lacking there.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

It's said that hell was originally created as a place for Satan and his angels. (From what a lot of Christians have said, evidently Satan hasn't found his way there yet, as he's still leading us good humans astray.) Fine, but then god decided to use hell as a final resting place for those of us who fail to toe his line.

So what's the deal here? Was hell going to waste with no Satan to burn? Or does god simply get a kick out of making people suffer?

Just what is accomplished by putting people in hell?


.

Justice is achieved, for rebelling against God and sinning against Him, those who reject Him will be punished for it, and that is right and fair. But thanks be to God, who has provided a way of salvation through Jesus Christ, even though we deserve God's wrath, He sent His Son to pay the price and take the punishment His people deserved, so that they may call upon the name of Jesus, trust in Him and be saved.

 

[Draka]

Justice is achieved, for rebelling against God and sinning against Him, those who reject Him will be punished for it, and that is right and fair. But thanks be to God, who has provided a way of salvation through Jesus Christ, even though we deserve God's wrath, He sent His Son to pay the price and take the punishment His people deserved, so that they may call upon the name of Jesus, trust in Him and be saved.

Punishing those that reject the belief in him isn't right nor fair. It's egotistical, narcissistic and cruel. Yet another reason to reject that concept of deity as senseless.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Considering that that belief is rare and sites for that belief are both specialized and rare, the chance of encountering those who actually believe that and like to push that belief is about nil, so why bother? But this is a place for many beliefs, not just that one, so it's not like people are coming specifically to this site to ask about Hell, it's a subject that just will come up when speaking of religion in general.

You would just rather believe that people who use questions to point out flaws in a position are actually questioning for some internal conundrum purpose when that simply isn't the case. Often times questions are asked a tool to make others think about a position, not because they sincerely want some life changing answer. Look up "rhetorical". There is no logical purpose for Hell unless deity is malevolent, and that doesn't jive with what else those who believe in Hell want others to believe about their deity. Logic is lacking there.

Rev 20:10 (ESVST) 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Let's look at hell. The devil will be thrown into the lake of fire and will be "TORMENTED" day and night "FOREVER AND EVER". Sounds like eternal punishment to me, what do you think?


And whoever is not found in the book of life will be thrown into the same lake of fire, eternal torment.

Rev 20:15 (ESVST) 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Punishing those that reject the belief in him isn't right nor fair. It's egotistical, narcissistic and cruel. Yet another reason to reject that concept of deity as senseless.

It's not simply rejecting belief in Him but a rebellion and hatred towards Him personally, and if God is infinitely worthy and objectively deserves our praise then it is morally wrong to not do so. And this rejection doesn't end there, it then manifests itself and leads to the daily acts of evil we commit in our minds and in our actions, and indicate the evil within our hearts.

 

[Draka]

Rev 20:10 (ESVST) 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Let's look at hell. The devil will be thrown into the lake of fire and will be "TORMENTED" day and night "FOREVER AND EVER". Sounds like eternal punishment to me, what do you think?


And whoever is not found in the book of life will be thrown into the same lake of fire, eternal torment.

Rev 20:15 (ESVST) 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Makes no logical sense. What's the purpose?

It's not simply rejecting belief in Him but a rebellion and hatred towards Him personally, and if God is infinitely worthy and objectively deserves our praise then it is morally wrong to not do so. And this rejection doesn't end there, it then manifests itself and leads to the daily acts of evil we commit in our minds and in our actions, and indicate the evil within our hearts.

If one rejects the belief one cannot logically rebel. That is, how can one rebel against that which isn't even there to them? One would have to believe in order to rebel. That's like not having a job yet talking badly about your boss. How can one rebel against that which doesn't even exist?

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

If one rejects the belief one cannot logically rebel. That is, how can one rebel against that which isn't even there to them? One would have to believe in order to rebel. That's like not having a job yet talking badly about your boss. How can one rebel against that which doesn't even exist?

Or the reverse, let's say you do have a job, and a boss, but you refuse to believe the boss exists. That doesn't make you less liable when you fail to do your job.

Or let's say you're a criminal, and refuse to believe the judge exists. That doesn't make you less liable to the laws he enforces. In the hearts of people is a rebellion and hatred towards God, no matter how much they may try to convince themselves He doesn't exist.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Errr...yes. You said the important thing is to put those that deserve it there. Did I misunderstand?

I was generally speaking. If someone deserves what Hell has to offer, Hell has to be there to take them. Just like having jails. I didn't have specific people in mind really. If no one deserves it, then so be it, and I'd love it. But we're not sure about that really.

No. If you're not one who claims to know who is a sinner, and you don't tacitly support those who do claim to know, then that's good enough for me.

Then we're good. Not that weren't, of course

 

[Draka]

Or the reverse, let's say you do have a job, and a boss, but you refuse to believe the boss exists. That doesn't make you less liable when you fail to do your job.

Or let's say you're a criminal, and refuse to believe the judge exists. That doesn't make you less liable to the laws he enforces. In the hearts of people is a rebellion and hatred towards God, no matter how much they may try to convince themselves He doesn't exist.

Utter bullhockey. You have proof of a boss, proof of a judge, you have no proof of a deity, let alone one particular one. Do you believe in unicorns? Do they exist? Can you be declared a unicorn hater and a rebel against unicorns if you don't even believe they exist? I rebel against your god as much as you rebel against the colony of purple toad people who live under your bed.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Utter bullhockey. You have proof of a boss, proof of a judge, you have no proof of a deity, let alone one particular one. Do you believe in unicorns? Do they exist? Can you be declared a unicorn hater and a rebel against unicorns if you don't even believe they exist? I rebel against your god as much as you rebel against the colony of purple toad people who live under your bed.

We can keep telling ourselves whatever we want to escape accountability, but all will be held to account for their actions, and all deserve the wrath of God. Oh the depths of the riches of the mercy of God however, who has provided a way through Jesus who has taken the punishment deserved by God's people, and opened the way for them to salvation and eternal life with Him.

 

[Draka]

We can keep telling ourselves whatever we want to escape accountability, but all will be held to account for their actions, and all deserve the wrath of God. Oh the depths of the riches of the mercy of God however, who has provided a way through Jesus who has taken the punishment deserved by God's people, and opened the way for them to salvation and eternal life with Him.

You can keep denying the purple toad people under your bed as well, but if you refuse to believe in them and honor them with mismatched socks and shoes then you deserve their wrath. It is no one's fault but your own when they finally drag you under your bed and throw you into the bog of eternal stench. But great is their mercy, they offer a way to avoid the bog. You only need accept that purple is the best color for socks and wear a pair every other Tuesday. Aren't they wonderful?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Makes no logical sense. What's the purpose?
If one rejects the belief one cannot logically rebel. That is, how can one rebel against that which isn't even there to them? One would have to believe in order to rebel. That's like not having a job yet talking badly about your boss. How can one rebel against that which doesn't even exist?

And if your teenage child rejects your beliefs, an does what he/she wants to do, are they rebelling against you? If you believe your 17 year old should have a 10:00 curfew and he/she doesn't agree with that belief and stays out until they're ready to come home, would you consider that teenager to be rebelling?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Utter bullhockey. You have proof of a boss, proof of a judge, you have no proof of a deity, let alone one particular one. Do you believe in unicorns? Do they exist? Can you be declared a unicorn hater and a rebel against unicorns if you don't even believe they exist? I rebel against your god as much as you rebel against the colony of purple toad people who live under your bed.

I see now, you don't even believe in God.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Naw, that's not it. If non believers keep asking questions about what they don't believe, they're looking for something.

If more than half of the population were Asatru I'd have a lot more questions about it too, including incredulous ones. Non-believers are still affected every day by the beliefs-in-practices of believers. And I honestly can say I'd have a difficult time being friends with anyone who believes in the eternal torment style hell for gays, non-believers, et all. Even though I don't believe in it, I do believe that it poses a fundamental character flaw in the believer due to that belief. But I'm not willing to judge all believers in such a way until I know what they believe and why they believe it.

 

[Draka]

And if your teenage child rejects your beliefs, an does what he/she wants to do, are they rebelling against you? If you believe your 17 year old should have a 10:00 curfew and he/she doesn't agree with that belief and stays out until they're ready to come home, would you consider that teenager to be rebelling?

I exist to my child. I dont have to prove I exist to them. They would be rebelling against my instructions. Beliefs dont even come into play here. Unless you'd actually like to argue that my own children I gave birth to dont believe I exist just in order to not listen to me?

One cannot rebel against something that does not exist. Do you rebel against Zeus? Ra? Odin? Do you believe in them? Do you rebel against them?

 

[Draka]

I see now, you don't even believe in God.

Not that one. Nope.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

You can keep denying the purple toad people under your bed as well, but if you refuse to believe in them and honor them with mismatched socks and shoes then you deserve their wrath. It is no one's fault but your own when they finally drag you under your bed and throw you into the bog of eternal stench. But great is their mercy, they offer a way to avoid the bog. You only need accept that purple is the best color for socks and wear a pair every other Tuesday. Aren't they wonderful?

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

(Romans 1:18-32)