Why not to be Catholic

[Deeje]

Um. Im talking about Catholic doctrine and Church devotion not the horribleness of Church goverment all the acts that misrepresent what the Church actually teaches.

These people were the church. There was no one else. They were the sole representatives of the church for centuries.

Find in Church doctrine does it say molesting boys is okay.
Find it in their Bible that your scripture is different than their scripture and that it says molesting boys is okay?

The problem is not with the Church--the Body of Christ which includes Catholics and every other Christian.

The problem lies in the fact that so many fail to recognize the weeds that Jesus said were sown very early in the piece. They deny that this apostasy ever happened.

Find me a trinity in Biblical Christianity (what Jesus taught)....find me eternal hellfire....immortality of the soul....deification of Mary....purgatory....limbo....holy water.....liturgy....Mass....celibate priests and nuns....monasteries....elaborate cathedrals.....crucifixes.....a monstrance....bread in the shape of the sun....fancy garments of purple and scarlet and fish shaped hats...parading idols through the streets....a Pope living in a gold inlaid palace whilst his subjects exist in abject poverty in many lands conquered by Catholic conquistadors.
How far removed would you like to be from what Jesus Christ taught?

The problem is what the Church feels she has the authority to control and so forth. Thats been since the 1800s on back. Its terrible.

It is not Catholic teaching.
The handful of priest (out of thousands of priests) and Popes sins do not represent the Church. Christ represents the Church.

Unfortunately the whole set up of the Catholic Church was doomed from its inception. It was never Christian to begin with. It was a fusion religion created by a pagan Emperor whose soul aim was to consolidate his divided empire with one religion. It is saturated with pagan teachings and practices that were later transferred to Protestantism because they took various aspects of the teachings of Rome and incorporated them into their many factions. Christendom is the result. Its a mess!

 

[Katzpur]

It was never Christian to begin with.

Yeah, how could it have been Christian? Catholics aren't Jehovah's Witnesses and everybody with a half a brain knows JW's are the only real Christians. (If it's not evident by what they teach, it's clear as can be when you observe the Christ-like love they show to all of their "enemies" -- both real and perceived.)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

These people were the church. There was no one else. They were the sole representatives of the church for centuries.



The problem lies in the fact that so many fail to recognize the weeds that Jesus said were sown very early in the piece. They deny that this apostasy ever happened.

Find me a trinity in Biblical Christianity (what Jesus taught)....find me eternal hellfire....immortality of the soul....deification of Mary....purgatory....limbo....holy water.....liturgy....Mass....celibate priests and nuns....monasteries....elaborate cathedrals.....crucifixes.....a monstrance....bread in the shape of the sun....fancy garments of purple and scarlet and fish shaped hats...parading idols through the streets....a Pope living in a gold inlaid palace whilst his subjects exist in abject poverty in many lands conquered by Catholic conquistadors.
How far removed would you like to be from what Jesus Christ taught?



Unfortunately the whole set up of the Catholic Church was doomed from its inception. It was never Christian to begin with. It was a fusion religion created by a pagan Emperor whose soul aim was to consolidate his divided empire with one religion. It is saturated with pagan teachings and practices that were later transferred to Protestantism because they took various aspects of the teachings of Rome and incorporated them into their many factions. Christendom is the result. Its a mess!

Youre talking about the Church organization not the Body of Christ.

Youre talking about the gold of the church not the relationship with Christ each Church member has.

Your focus is completely contrary to the context of Catholic devotion that the only way you can understand from their perspective at the very least is to be Catholic.

Until then, how can I make you see brotherhood when you see division among your own people in Christ?

 

[Deeje]

Yeah, how could it have been Christian? Catholics aren't Jehovah's Witnesses and everybody with a half a brain knows JW's are the only real Christians. (If it's not evident by what they teach, it's clear as can be when you observe the Christ-like love they show to all of their "enemies" -- both real and perceived.)

Jesus told the truth and the Pharisees received it in much the same fashion as you have, I would say. Is everyone free to believe their own version of things and just hope Jesus accepts everyone? I don't think that is what he taught at all. The apostles didn't either.

Do you think that Christ was loving in his approach to those who purported to represent his Father but were basing their worship on their own false interpretation of things?
Time will tell Katspur whom Jesus accepts as his own and whom he relegates to the garbage heap. (Matt 7:21-23) The truth is the truth, no matter what we personally believe. There is no point in side stepping the issues if they are right in front of our nose. Lets get em out there and discuss them.....but I have noticed that you don't like to do that with your LDS beliefs.
Can you not defend them?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Jesus told the truth and the Pharisees received it in much the same fashion as you have, I would say. Is everyone free to believe their own version of things and just hope Jesus accepts everyone? I don't think that is what he taught at all. The apostles didn't either.

Do you think that Christ was loving in his approach to those who purported to represent his Father but were basing their worship on their own false interpretation of things?
Time will tell Katspur whom Jesus accepts as his own and whom he relegates to the garbage heap. (Matt 7:21-23) The truth is the truth, no matter what we personally believe. There is no point in side stepping the issues if they are right in front of our nose. Lets get em out there and discuss them.....but I have noticed that you don't like to do that with your LDS beliefs.
Can you not defend them?

Do you think talking to people harshly will help people learn about Christ?

If I were around Christ (according to how you depict him) I would never listen to him. I rather be around someone who values who I am, value my difference as well as similarities, and teach me about what his father said rather than, how you depict him, telling others they will suffer because they disbelief in his father.

Your whole approach to bringing people to Christ is completely off. That I can give Catholics a thumb up. They may have their bad ways of picketing people and all that. But when you sit and talk to them and ask them about their faith, they are more appreciative that you want to learn about who they are in Christ and not judge them based on the history and teachinigs of the church.

 

[jeager106]

Deeje dares to say:
Find me a trinity in Biblical Christianity (what Jesus taught)....find me eternal hellfire....immortality of the soul....deification of Mary....purgatory....limbo....holy water.....liturgy....Mass....celibate priests and nuns....monasteries....elaborate cathedrals.....crucifixes.....a monstrance....bread in the shape of the sun....fancy garments of purple and scarlet and fish shaped hats...parading idols through the streets....a Pope living in a gold inlaid palace whilst his subjects exist in abject poverty in many lands conquered by Catholic conquistadors.
How far removed would you like to be from what Jesus Christ taught?

Deeje speaks absolute TRUTH.
People don't want to hear the truth when it flies in the face of TRADITION.
That the traditional values might be far off the mark means nothing.
Tradition wins.
People, NOT J.W.'s can research ( as I have for YEARS) and learn the truth
about Easter, Christmas, and other PAGAN influences in "Christendom" but
they will DENY these truths. If one persists in trying to teach the truth
people get mad as hell and sometimes violent.
This world of Christendom will NEVER admit Christmas, Easter, and other "Christian"
observances are false and downright linked directly into pagan rituals.
I don't think God appreciates this very much.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

OH GOSH Im not supposed to be in conversations like this. I rather understand peoples religious thought not defend religious thoughts that are not my own. Its exhausting.

@Deeje We will have to agree (can you ?) to disagree.

Good advice @Katzpur

**

 

[Deeje]

Youre talking about the Church organization not the Body of Christ.

Youre talking about the gold of the church not the relationship with Christ each Church member has.

Your focus is completely contrary to the context of Catholic devotion that the only way you can understand from their perspective at the very least is to be Catholic.

Until then, how can I make you see brotherhood when you see division among your own people in Christ?

I do not see any relationship of the church or its teachings to Jesus Christ in any way. That is why I feel for Catholic people and I have studied with many of them. I see the same disappointment in all of them when they actually study the scriptures instead of church doctrine. It seems that everything Jesus told Christians NOT to do, the Catholic Church has done it.

If we find things in our worship that were introduced long after Jesus and his apostles left the earth, then we have a responsibility to check that out for ourselves. If they have their origins in false worship then something is required of us.

2 Cor 6:14-18:
"For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is there between light and darkness? 15 What agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
“I will live in them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be your father, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.” (NRSVCE)

If we engage in false worship we will not be welcome in God's family. We are told to separate from those things, not embrace them or justify them.

Do you think talking to people harshly will help people learn about Christ?

Were people around Jesus when he denounced the Pharisees publicly? (Matt 23:13-36) Did they make up their minds about what he said and the way he said it? Yes they did.....and the majority of the Jews sided with his adversaries. What does that tell you? Jesus did not tip-toe round the important issues. He brought them out into the open and allowed the people to make their choices.

If I were around Christ (according to how you depict him) I would never listen to him. I rather be around someone who values who I am, value my difference as well as similarities, and teach me about what his father said rather than, how you depict him, telling others they will suffer because they disbelief in his father.

So you would have gone looking for someone to tickle your ears rather than tell you the truth? (2 Tim 4:3, 4) That is your choice.

Your whole approach to bringing people to Christ is completely off. That I can give Catholics a thumb up. They may have their bad ways of picketing people and all that. But when you sit and talk to them and ask them about their faith, they are more appreciative that you want to learn about who they are in Christ and not judge them based on the history and teachinigs of the church.

I have studied with many Catholic people over the years. I have sat with them for hours listening to them tell their stories and voice their concerns. They were ashamed of their church and wanted to abandon it because of feeling that it was a monstrous fraud. It had lied to them about what it means to be a Christian.

Christendom is a sinking ship and those who cling to it will go down with it. (Rev 18:4, 5)

We will have to agree (can you ?) to disagree.

Its not my job to agree or disagree with people...its just my job to tell the truth. What people do with it is up to them. Jesus is the judge, not me.

 

[Katzpur]

OH GOSH Im not supposed to be in conversations like this. I rather understand peoples religious thought not defend religious thoughts that are not my own. Its exhausting.

Making an effort to understand what other people believe and why they believe as they do goes a long way towards generating the kind of agape love Jesus Christ preached.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Making an effort to understand what other people believe and why they believe as they do goes a long way towards generating the kind of agape love Jesus Christ preached.

Thank you. I do believe many of us can be Christ like even though we dont believe In Christ.

One day.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you think that Christ was loving in his approach to those who purported to represent his Father but were basing their worship on their own false interpretation of things?
Time will tell Katspur whom Jesus accepts as his own and whom he relegates to the garbage heap. (Matt 7:21-23) The truth is the truth, no matter what we personally believe. There is no point in side stepping the issues if they are right in front of our nose. Lets get em out there and discuss them.....but I have noticed that you don't like to do that with your LDS beliefs.
Can you not defend them?

But with numerous schisms, thousands of denominations, and myriad of interpretations that are all nothing more than interpretations based on translations from long-dead languages, shouldn't god have done something to set people straight to clear up the confusion? It's not like we're talking about a philosophy discussion involving the ancient Greeks, where there are bound to be heated debates over the exact translation and meaning of just one word, but something that is allegedly important enough to determine the fate of one's eternal soul.

 

[Deeje]

Well, JayJayDeeje, let's just say I have no desire to discuss anything with someone who is so dishonest as to have two user profiles, particularly when this is against forum rules of this website. But then I guess the world's rules don't apply to JWs, do they? But wait, God doesn't approve of duplicity either, so there's got to be another excuse for the deception.

Sorry Katz had this discussion with staff already. Not two user profiles, just two people using one computer. Two users in one household can have an account as far as I know.
I was on this site before the other user joined. You can take your judge's cap off now.

 

[psychoslice]

Why not be a Hindu, a Jew, a Buddhist, it makes more sense.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I don't seek Catholic topics, but if the opportunity presents it self, I would defend Catholicism and Catholics just as I defend any other religion.

But the reason I'm not Catholic is because I'm Muslim and I believe in Islam, along with not believing in the identity of God in Catholicism.

 

[Deeje]

But with numerous schisms, thousands of denominations, and myriad of interpretations that are all nothing more than interpretations based on translations from long-dead languages, shouldn't god have done something to set people straight to clear up the confusion? It's not like we're talking about a philosophy discussion involving the ancient Greeks, where there are bound to be heated debates over the exact translation and meaning of just one word, but something that is allegedly important enough to determine the fate of one's eternal soul.

Well, that's the thing. I believe that each person is tested out by being exposed to all kinds of religious beliefs. There was just one religion in the beginning and it had one Creator God and very little in the way of rules. Everything was simple and uncomplicated. But something happened to challenge the position of the one God so that humans were left to choose between two. One was the true God and the other was just a pretender....a wannabe.

The pretender made claims about the Creator's way of ruling so he allowed the pretender to try his best to convince humankind that he was the better god and ruler. This is why there are so many religions. The pretender was going to cater to every religious taste and try to lead people away from the true God, making things as complicated and confusing as possible.

There are some who are born into a religion and see no need to leave it because it suits them to stick to what is familiar, going through the motions, not wanting to upset family tradition. Others may have had a strict religious upbringing and when they are of age, choose a completely different path. Still others might be raised in one kind of faith but end up not believing at all. Some just adopt atheism because science makes it seem like a logical alternative to believing in something for which there is no proof.

By what we reason in our own hearts, we are telling God who we really are. Those who really want to find the true God, will....those who merely want a god to cater to their own taste will not.

God is choosing citizens for his kingdom just based on being themselves.

 

[Spiderman]

 

[Katzpur]

Sorry Katz had this discussion with staff already. Not two user profiles, just two people using one computer. Two users in one household can have an account as far as I know.

Yeah, whatever.

According to "the other person in your household" , JWs aren't even supposed to post on sites like this. Since that is the case, I wouldn't want to encourage you to go against what the Almighty Watchtower forbids. Besides, attempts at conversing with you in the past have always been pointless.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Were people around Jesus when he denounced the Pharisees publicly? (Matt 23:13-36) Did they make up their minds about what he said and the way he said it? Yes they did.....and the majority of the Jews sided with his adversaries. What does that tell you? Jesus did not tip-toe round the important issues. He brought them out into the open and allowed the people to make their choices.

He called them fools even though he said that anyone who called people fools were going to hell. He's not the most mature person on the planet.

So you would have gone looking for someone to tickle your ears rather than tell you the truth? (2 Tim 4:3, 4) That is your choice.

It's not about being told you're right (after all, how many here pay attention to accusations of falsehoods?). It's about bringing up things like adults. As a child he supposedly wowed people with his debate skills, but as an adult, many times it devolves into "pharisees are doody heads".

 

[Spiderman]

This current dialogue you're having, Carlita... Don't expect anything productive out of it.

This has nothing to do with your post , but I just wanted to say I'm very edified to see that Mormon families per capita seem to have stronger and healthier nuclear families of any other denomination I have seen , and they also have a sense of humor and are down-to-earth.

My best friend growing up was Mormon.

 

[Spiderman]

I do not see any relationship of the church or its teachings to Jesus Christ in any way. That is why I feel for Catholic people and I have studied with many of them. I see the same disappointment in all of them when they actually study the scriptures instead of church doctrine. It seems that everything Jesus told Christians NOT to do, the Catholic Church has done it.

If we find things in our worship that were introduced long after Jesus and his apostles left the earth, then we have a responsibility to check that out for ourselves. If they have their origins in false worship then something is required of us.

2 Cor 6:14-18:
"For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is there between light and darkness? 15 What agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
“I will live in them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be your father, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.” (NRSVCE)

If we engage in false worship we will not be welcome in God's family. We are told to separate from those things, not embrace them or justify them.



Were people around Jesus when he denounced the Pharisees publicly? (Matt 23:13-36) Did they make up their minds about what he said and the way he said it? Yes they did.....and the majority of the Jews sided with his adversaries. What does that tell you? Jesus did not tip-toe round the important issues. He brought them out into the open and allowed the people to make their choices.



So you would have gone looking for someone to tickle your ears rather than tell you the truth? (2 Tim 4:3, 4) That is your choice.



I have studied with many Catholic people over the years. I have sat with them for hours listening to them tell their stories and voice their concerns. They were ashamed of their church and wanted to abandon it because of feeling that it was a monstrous fraud. It had lied to them about what it means to be a Christian.

Christendom is a sinking ship and those who cling to it will go down with it. (Rev 18:4, 5)



Its not my job to agree or disagree with people...its just my job to tell the truth. What people do with it is up to them. Jesus is the judge, not me.

Your job is to speak the truth? so up until 1870 God let all believers go astray and finally brought the fullness of truth by founding your denomination , a major "Johnny-come-lately" for Christianity.

You know that you are speaking the truth how? Do those who reject your faith know that they are rejecting the truth?