Why Most Of You Are going To Hell

[Kungfuzed]

Oh gee. That was an attractive worm on the hook, wasn't it?

But let's talk about why your're reading this instead of something else. Want to know why you're going to hell? Right?

Because hell only exists in the mind. Most, not all, but most of you live within the cave of the mind. Its safe in there. You can draw on the walls all you want to.

As long as you live within your mind, you will not know God, hence the term "hell". Religion belongs to the mind. Everything you know in your lives, also belongs to the mind.

The path you seek is not one of a door which opens to some outside world. It is a door which opens within yourself. The path is inward. Away from religions and other earthy trappings.

I invite you there.



x

So to leave hell I must be out of my mind? Without my mind would I even exist?

 

[UnTheist]

So to leave hell I must be out of my mind? Without my mind would I even exist?

No. You must get hell out of your mind. Or maybe accept that you will always be in hell

 

[sojourner]

I don't recruit. I merley give you more options than you may currently understand you have access to.

You came in because you understand hell is a place of punishment. Seeing yourself as a good person, you came in here to counterclaim. I'm not going to hell.

Nobody "goes" to hell. Like the kingdom itself, it is ever present. The only movable part is you.

How much control you have over your own actions is what determines how much access you have to either. Freewill is never compromised, but freewill needs to have access to as much information as it can find in order to make good decisions.

Religion can make an excellent start in the training of the mind, but at some point, it will reach the limits of what it can do for you. To open the door to the kingdom, you must leave everything behind you. Everything.

Do that, and and everthing will come and lay at your feet.

The entire universe will bow to you.

Because it is you.


x

Your hermeneutical cloud is obscuring your vision and causing you to assume things that just ain't so ... and you know what happens when you assume things...

First, My religion is a major foundation for my life, and a major impetus for my pursuit of things spiritual. It is truth and it is valid. I don't cotton too well to someone who does not appreciate what my religion does for me (and for the world!), telling me that my religion doesn't do what I know it to do. And then inviting me to a different path. That is proselytization writ large.

Second, I didn't "come in here because I understand hell as a place of punishment." Nor did I come in here to "counterclaim" on that basis. That's rather presumptuous of you. I don't consider myself either good or bad. I consider myself a child of God.

Third, while religion can make an excellent start, it can also make an excellent finish. What most refer to as "salvation" is not -- cannot be -- an individual thing. Rather, it encompasses all of humanity. That is what my religion teaches. How can we leave "all" behind, when we are each part of a greater whole? Rather than "leave them behind," the religion teaches that we all come along together, because we are all the one Body. To open the door to the kingdom requires a group effort.

Fourth, I do not wish to have the world lain at my feet. I don't want the universe to bow to me. That's God's provence. The universe is God, and I am part of God, too.

Before you begin to "invite me to the right path," you need to take a real good look at where I am. That's valid spiritual direction.

 

[Willamena]

An excellent post Xexon. Hell is a state of mind. It is more profound and important than a fiery hell of eternal torture. The Devil is in all of us.

And what's the use of that?

 

[Darkness]

Well, Willamena the battleground is inside our own minds - our own selves. It is a war to overcome ignorance, blind hatred, anger, lack of patience, lack of self-control, etcetera. If you cannot conquer your own demons, you will have lost the war. All external fights are secondary.

 

[xexon]

And what's the use of that?

The mind weighs things. How would you know the value of good if evil were not present to hold along side of it as a comparison?

If you live in the mind, you weigh things too. For you, all things have two sides. Your opinion will be manufactured within this mold.

You can follow whatever religion you like. Whatever soothes the pain of this world.

But know there is a reality beyond what the mind knows or will ever know. It is beyond symbolism or rules or boundries. It is without limit, and it is all you.

Whatever you want to focus on, there you are.

Right now, most are focused on all the drawings they're making on their walls, there in the cave of the mind.

They'll wander outside when they're ready. Once they do, its pretty hard to go back in. There might be a few trial runs first. Sooner or later, they too will point and grin at those still looking out of the cave.

Who said God doesn't have a sense of humor?



x

 

[Ozzie]

Perhaps we are looking at illusions a little differently. I do agree with your final sentence.

Out of interest Willamena, how do you look at them?

 

[sojourner]

The mind weighs things. How would you know the value of good if evil were not present to hold along side of it as a comparison?

If you live in the mind, you weigh things too. For you, all things have two sides. Your opinion will be manufactured within this mold.

You can follow whatever religion you like. Whatever soothes the pain of this world.

But know there is a reality beyond what the mind knows or will ever know. It is beyond symbolism or rules or boundries. It is without limit, and it is all you.

Whatever you want to focus on, there you are.

Right now, most are focused on all the drawings they're making on their walls, there in the cave of the mind.

They'll wander outside when they're ready. Once they do, its pretty hard to go back in. There might be a few trial runs first. Sooner or later, they too will point and grin at those still looking out of the cave.

Who said God doesn't have a sense of humor?



x

Your first statement is blatantly dualistic. "The cave of the mind" is obviously an allusion to Plato. Christianity is not dualistic. Christians do not depend upon evil to tell us what good is. God is good, God created the heavens and the earth good. We know God through Christ. Therefore, we know good and were created good without benefit of evil to help us.

Christ also had some pretty damning things to say about those who laugh and point fingers: "Damn you who laugh now. You will learn to weep and grieve." (Lk 6:25b Annotated Scholars Version)

That pesky hermeneutical cloud...

 

[Ozzie]

The mind weighs things. How would you know the value of good if evil were not present to hold along side of it as a comparison?

Your mind doesn't weigh anything. Rather it articulates action and reaction. The reason you can engage in any planned purposeful behaviour or possess reliably defined personality is due to subconscious inhibitory mechanisms. Good and evil mean nothing in and of themselves. They are a dichotomy, thats all. In context, they have meaning applied to objects. We are biologically programmed to maintain an equilibrium allowing growth and development. A developed balanced mind is as much a product of this as experience.

If you live in the mind, you weigh things too. For you, all things have two sides. Your opinion will be manufactured within this mold.

If you live in the mind you are regarding it as an object. This is an error IMO, because it prevents at times living in the world. I think this is what you are referring to in this post as hell. But there is no use telling people to discard their mind. It is as much a part of us as the heart, at least in this lifetime anyway.

Who said God doesn't have a sense of humor?

A pretty sick sense of humour if the conviction is that persons should first suffer the hell of the mind and then wait for an enlightened being to give them the keys to some ultimate reality without succintely demonstrating which door to open/path to follow/technique to practice. Discussion of secret pathways to God by aschewing mind without demonstrating to people how they should behave, encourages still closer focus on the mind as an object (our original hell) and is a slippery slope to mental illness IMO.

 

[xexon]

Reality as you understand it IS duelistic. As are all the things that are contained within it. Religion among them.

Christians are no different than anybody else. Duality is how things work here. Period. Religion, or lack thereof does not determine that. It is the nature of the mind and the world that surrounds it.

Duality is the software your brain uses. Does that make sense? It is also the way nature around you is constructed. This is what allows the mind to interact with it. They are written in a common language.

The language of duality is not spoken in the upper spiritual realms, it is only spoken here, where the mind works. The mind is the only thing that uses it.

As long as you see duality, know the mind is in charge.

As for Jesus, I know what he means. But I don't do what I do for reasons you suggest. You're in a defensive posture, and this is what you're speaking from.

If I point and grin, its because I enjoy watching children play, not because I am mean spirited and sitting in judgement of them.


x

 

[xexon]

Your mind doesn't weigh anything. Rather it articulates action and reaction. The reason you can engage in any planned purposeful behaviour or possess reliably defined personality is due to subconscious inhibitory mechanisms. Good and evil mean nothing in and of themselves. They are a dichotomy, thats all. In context, they have meaning applied to objects. We are biologically programmed to maintain an equilibrium allowing growth and development. A developed balanced mind is as much a product of this as experience.
If you live in the mind you are regarding it as an object. This is an error IMO, because it prevents at times living in the world. I think this is what you are referring to in this post as hell. But there is no use telling people to discard their mind. It is as much a part of us as the heart, at least in this lifetime anyway.



A pretty sick sense of humour if the conviction is that persons should first suffer the hell of the mind and then wait for an enlightened being to give them the keys to some ultimate reality without succintely demonstrating which door to open/path to follow/technique to practice. Discussion of secret pathways to God by aschewing mind without demonstrating to people how they should behave, encourages still closer focus on the mind as an object (our original hell) and is a slippery slope to mental illness IMO.

No, I don't have a messiah complex, but thanks for your concern.


Just make the mind be quiet. You'll prove for yourself what I say. Its really that simple.

You can continue to follow whatever religion or philosophy you want in the meantime. It will give you a structure until you find you no longer need one.

At some point, the mind will tire enough for it be brought into submission.

You'll find the heart immediantly fills any void created as the mind pulls back.

Repeat as needed.



x

 

[Ozzie]

No, I don't have a messiah complex, but thanks for your concern.


Just make the mind be quiet. You'll prove for yourself what I say. Its really that simple.

You can continue to follow whatever religion or philosophy you want in the meantime. It will give you a structure until you find you no longer need one.

At some point, the mind will tire enough for it be brought into submission.

You'll find the heart immediantly fills any void created as the mind pulls back.

Repeat as needed.



x

I'm not accusing you of having a messiah complex. I think you are onto something with your depiction of mind as hell. But your articulation of it as a path leaves something to be desired. For example, this last post resembles recipe instructions for "instant Messiah".

 

[xexon]

You create your own hell. Nobody ever needs any help with this.

Hell is a part of the scenary here. It can't be avoided, but it can be gone through. When you realize how you create it, you will be less likely to do so, allowing you to burn through what you have left in your account much faster.

As I said earlier, hell, like the kingdom itself, is ever present. The only moveable part is you.


x

 

[Pardus]

Hell is other people.

 

[xexon]

Hell is the mind's inability to figure something out.


x

 

[Cynic]

Hell is the mind's inability to figure something out.


x

Funny, I thought that was irrationalism...

Same difference.

 

[Ozzie]

Funny, I thought that was irrationalism...

Same difference.

Ok, I'll frubal you even though I do not agree.

 

[Cynic]

Ok, I'll frubal you even though I do not agree.

You don't have to, the name is a joke... And my post sarcasm...

 

[Ozzie]

You don't have to, the name is a joke... And my post sarcasm...

Too late.:yes:

 

[sojourner]

Reality as you understand it IS duelistic. As are all the things that are contained within it. Religion among them.

Christians are no different than anybody else. Duality is how things work here. Period. Religion, or lack thereof does not determine that. It is the nature of the mind and the world that surrounds it.

Duality is the software your brain uses. Does that make sense? It is also the way nature around you is constructed. This is what allows the mind to interact with it. They are written in a common language.

The language of duality is not spoken in the upper spiritual realms, it is only spoken here, where the mind works. The mind is the only thing that uses it.

As long as you see duality, know the mind is in charge.

As for Jesus, I know what he means. But I don't do what I do for reasons you suggest. You're in a defensive posture, and this is what you're speaking from.

If I point and grin, its because I enjoy watching children play, not because I am mean spirited and sitting in judgement of them.


x

Perhaps you should point toward yourself and grin at your own play.

I don't understand reality as being dualistic. If you really understood the religion, you would find that it is not dualistic, either, rather, it is based on the oneness of ultimate Being, which is God.

We are enjoined to have the same mind in us that was in Christ Jesus (who also, by the way, was hardly a "dualist.")

Rise above your hermenuetical cloud and see us for what we really are.