True - but the core beliefs that are different are what makes the difference. For example, one of my core beliefs is in the Joseph Smith story. This belief comes from personal spiritual experiences that I have had. Everything else I believe comes back to this core belief.alowyn said:
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why it's always ( ISLAM vs. CHRISTIANITY )
- Thread starter TashaN
- Start date
JerryL
Well-Known Member
This seems the definition of "fanatical" to me.
Please name some of these universal beliefs for me because I don't see it.
You actually feel there's a religious base to this? I think you are buying into propiganda.
Tell me why Afghan mislims were attacking Egyptian Muslims and Suni Muslims are attakcing Shia Muslims. It's about culture, territory, wealth, and power; just like all wars throughout history.
I lived in Germany for two years and you wouldn't believe how often I heard the Germans complaining about the Muslims "trying to take over their country." Many of them felt that the immigration into Germany from Islamic countries was threatening the culture of their country. I don't know if it is a battle between the two religions as much as it is a battle between two cultures.alowyn said:Considering recent events in Europe, could it be that there is a clash of religions between Islam and Christianity, raging particularly in Europe, considering recent events such as Theo Van Gogh's death and the chaos following that? It also seems like the so called "War on Terror" (don't get me started on this) has turned into a battle between Muslims and Christians allied with Jews because it's convenient. It wouldn't strike me as odd, seeing how these are the two largest religions in the world, and that Islam is growing rapidly. Perhaps Christianity is subconsciously threatened? I am speaking in general here, i am well aware that the common Christian/Muslim just going about his/her daily life doesn't see it as that at all. But if Hinduism was the second-largest religion and growing rapidly, hypothetically speaking, would there be a clash like this between Christians and Hindus? What if we swapped Islam and Judaism? would America support the Muslim states to fight off Jewish terrorists?
Someone mentioned previously that it's like children fighting over who is loved more by their parents. That is just so incredibly true. The battle for Jerusalem always strikes me as a sad joke that we're fighting over a holy city. uh-huh. i'm sure we were commanded to do that somewhere...
Depends on what the core belief is - If your core belief is that everyone who isn't Relgion X shoud be killed than it is probably fanatical. I don't see a problem with a core belief that I can be saved through Christ, etc.JerryL said:
I would consider anyone without core beliefs as either searching for the truth or flaky.
yes you are right in many things you just said but the problem and the real challenge is to test your belief and to see whether it's really true or not.jonny said:
because most of people they just belief in what thier parents belief in and the same case with your parents and thier parents.
what if your parents were muslims or jews? would you still belief you are really so true even though you don't know or we can say that you have no idea why you love and belive in this belief except that mostly it was just by inherit !!! ok ... if you said you don't share with your parents the same belief ( assumption ) so what if you were born in Israel for example or in saudi arabia ??? you know what's i'm talking about now right?
JerryL
Well-Known Member
I'm not aware that a fanatic is required to have a belief in killing others. Certainly someone who wears sopk-ears 24 hours a day and insists everyone calls him "captian" is a fanatic despite being harmless.
In short "I have core beliefes that I got without evidence and will never change no matter what" does not seem to be a rational position.
I understand what you are saying. I have tested my beliefs and feel that they are true. I don't know where I would be if my parents were of a different faith. I hope I would have found the faith that I have, buy you can never know.The Truth said:yes you are right in many things you just said but the problem and the real challenge is to test your belief and to see whether it's really true or not.
because most of people they just belief in what thier parents belief in and the same case with your parents and thier parents.
what if your parents were muslims or jews? would you still belief you are really so true even though you don't know or we can say that you have no idea why you love and belive in this belief except that mostly it was just by inherit !!! ok ... if you said you don't share with your parents the same belief ( assumption ) so what if you were born in Israel for example or in saudi arabia ??? you know what's i'm talking about now right?
I did a very interesting project last year where I researched how each of the members of my family came to be members of my faith (luckily, my church is relatively young and my family has kept very good records). I compiled over 500 pages of biographies of my ancestors. The miracles that occurred and stories of faith, visions, and revelation I read in their autobiographies were enough to convince me that the members of my family were led by God to this religion.
jonny said:
Is that mean that you can't discuss anything releated to your core beliefs whether you had evidence for it or not?jonny said:
If you have any evidence so would you assume as long as you know it's the truth when anyone bring anything conflict with your core beliefs that it will not affect what you believe in and you will not care at all about what he/she says because you assumed that your evidence is not able to be discussed all over again from anyone else all from different point of view rather than seeing what you believe in according to your camera and neglecting other's cameras.
I'm not sure if understand your question, but I will try to answer it. Of course I can discuss things related to my core beliefs. I seek truth and I believe there is truth in every religion. You can learn a lot about your own faith by discussing the beliefs of others.The Truth said:
I don't think I have to look through every 'camera' to know that what I believe is true. This would be impossible Can I learn something from everyone? Probably, but I think the source of the information is as important as the information. If I don't trust the source I am not likely to give it much thought.
we go back for our main topic which is that it's not neccesary to be always Islam vs. Christianity.
by Pete Jackson
The relationship between Islam and Christianity is definitely a 'live' issue, an issue of contemporary concern. It is an issue of concern in our world, given the ongoing problems in Iraq and Palestine and the controversial role played by our own government and the government of the USA in those parts. It is an issue of concern in this country, given the explosion of asylum seekers and refugees who are of Islamic faith coming into this country. Also, in the last 20 years some 20,000 people born here in the UK have converted to Islam. It is an issue of concern for many of us on a personal level, the Muslim people we work with, live near, that our children perhaps go to school with.
As with all religions, but perhaps more acutely with Islam because of the national and international political issues, the pressure is on to downplay the differences between Islam and Christianity and emphasise the similarities, even to the point of saying along with President Bush, that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. But before I start to show just some of why that is a false assumption I want to make a couple of things very clear. These differences between Christianity and Islam are never an excuse for political hatred. They are never a valid justification for war. Neither do they justify more stringent immigration control. None of those things are a valid way to apply these differences.
Similarities
There are many similarities between Christianity and Islam, here are some of the main ones as far as I can tell.
Both say that there is One God.
And that God is sovereign, he rules history.
The existence of Angels is another similarity.
Islam and Christianity both have Prophets and prophecy (Including many of the same characters Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, Jesus).
Both believe in a Heaven and Hell and God's future judgment.
So, what's the difference, given all these things in common? After all, isn't 'Allah' just the Arabic word for 'High God'?
- If Christian is a person who follows the teachings of Christ (pbuh) and not one who worships Christ (pbuh). (We are more Christian than the Christians themselves).
- Muslim is a person who submits his will to Allah.
Jesus (pbuh) said, "not my will but thy will be done." i.e. Muslim.
John 5:30
and here I have got a short and an easy table showing that Islam & Christianity have the same vision of these things :
1- Creation
2- The Lord's Prayer compared to Surah Fatehah
3- Quranic verses to the Biblical 10 Commandments
4- Quranic verses to Laws of Consanguinity
5- Basic Concepts
6- Moral Code
7- Practices
8- Secularism
and in the same website contains too the differencess which is so few comparing to the similarities.
please click here ( it's not so complicated website but easy one with basic information and a table to make it easier to compare ) so don't be lazy to click it
http://muslim-canada.org/islam_christianity.html#10commandments
by Pete Jackson
The relationship between Islam and Christianity is definitely a 'live' issue, an issue of contemporary concern. It is an issue of concern in our world, given the ongoing problems in Iraq and Palestine and the controversial role played by our own government and the government of the USA in those parts. It is an issue of concern in this country, given the explosion of asylum seekers and refugees who are of Islamic faith coming into this country. Also, in the last 20 years some 20,000 people born here in the UK have converted to Islam. It is an issue of concern for many of us on a personal level, the Muslim people we work with, live near, that our children perhaps go to school with.
As with all religions, but perhaps more acutely with Islam because of the national and international political issues, the pressure is on to downplay the differences between Islam and Christianity and emphasise the similarities, even to the point of saying along with President Bush, that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. But before I start to show just some of why that is a false assumption I want to make a couple of things very clear. These differences between Christianity and Islam are never an excuse for political hatred. They are never a valid justification for war. Neither do they justify more stringent immigration control. None of those things are a valid way to apply these differences.
Similarities
There are many similarities between Christianity and Islam, here are some of the main ones as far as I can tell.
Both say that there is One God.
And that God is sovereign, he rules history.
The existence of Angels is another similarity.
Islam and Christianity both have Prophets and prophecy (Including many of the same characters Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, Jesus).
Both believe in a Heaven and Hell and God's future judgment.
So, what's the difference, given all these things in common? After all, isn't 'Allah' just the Arabic word for 'High God'?
- If Christian is a person who follows the teachings of Christ (pbuh) and not one who worships Christ (pbuh). (We are more Christian than the Christians themselves).
- Muslim is a person who submits his will to Allah.
Jesus (pbuh) said, "not my will but thy will be done." i.e. Muslim.
John 5:30
and here I have got a short and an easy table showing that Islam & Christianity have the same vision of these things :
1- Creation
2- The Lord's Prayer compared to Surah Fatehah
3- Quranic verses to the Biblical 10 Commandments
4- Quranic verses to Laws of Consanguinity
5- Basic Concepts
6- Moral Code
7- Practices
8- Secularism
and in the same website contains too the differencess which is so few comparing to the similarities.
please click here ( it's not so complicated website but easy one with basic information and a table to make it easier to compare ) so don't be lazy to click it
http://muslim-canada.org/islam_christianity.html#10commandments
Malus 12:9
Temporarily Deactive.
There are many religions but all of them have some similarities, the basics of religions about God, love, faith, ethics, sin, after-death...Most religions consider the first duty of their members to recognize this Supreme Being, to adore Him, to praise and give thanks to Him.
So, I guess you are picking your similarities and differences from only two specific religions, no?
What for the Golden Rule? Yes, most religions preach and try to practice the Golden rule, love each other, because we all are brothers in God. So, I guess that is another similarity, not just in your Muslim or a Christian's Chrstianity.
Most religions agree to preach and promote good ethics, good human conduct in the light of good moral principles. So, I guess this is another similarity that you overlooked in order to benfit your thread topic.
So, in reality, there is no Islam vs Christianity. If there was, then the same would be for Islam vs Judaism, or Islam vs Buddhism, and so forth..
Thankyou for your listening Islam person
So, I guess you are picking your similarities and differences from only two specific religions, no?
What for the Golden Rule? Yes, most religions preach and try to practice the Golden rule, love each other, because we all are brothers in God. So, I guess that is another similarity, not just in your Muslim or a Christian's Chrstianity.
Most religions agree to preach and promote good ethics, good human conduct in the light of good moral principles. So, I guess this is another similarity that you overlooked in order to benfit your thread topic.
So, in reality, there is no Islam vs Christianity. If there was, then the same would be for Islam vs Judaism, or Islam vs Buddhism, and so forth..
Thankyou for your listening Islam person
How well said! I think you have encapsulated the essense of religion. Names of different faiths tend to highlight our differences, and yet those differences are often minutiae. We should concentrate on the main concept; God is Good; we all want to love God; we all would like to see peace throughout the world, and yes, we are all brothers and sisters - all one large family who should Love one and other.Renaldo said:There are many religions but all of them have some similarities, the basics of religions about God, love, faith, ethics, sin, after-death...Most religions consider the first duty of their members to recognize this Supreme Being, to adore Him, to praise and give thanks to Him.
So, I guess you are picking your similarities and differences from only two specific religions, no?
What for the Golden Rule? Yes, most religions preach and try to practice the Golden rule, love each other, because we all are brothers in God. So, I guess that is another similarity, not just in your Muslim or a Christian's Chrstianity.
Most religions agree to preach and promote good ethics, good human conduct in the light of good moral principles. So, I guess this is another similarity that you overlooked in order to benfit your thread topic.
So, in reality, there is no Islam vs Christianity. If there was, then the same would be for Islam vs Judaism, or Islam vs Buddhism, and so forth..
Thankyou for your listening Islam person
If only the rest of the world could focus on these essential point. As I said, Renaldo - well said!
I think you misunderstood me because most threads in here as i noticed is about Islam & Christianity so i was just trying to show that they are just alike and i wasn't neglecting the other religions as you may think from my purpose and to show you that there are many similarities in other religions too i'll pick up some for you even though it's not releated to the title of the thread.
Belief about God.
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are monotheistic religions, namely they believe that there is only one God.
Children of Abraham: Understanding human beings
The three religions believe that human beings are the highest creatures here on earth. We are the children of Abraham. God created us full of mystery, which means potential for continuous growth, both as a species and as individuals. We are capable of both good and evil.
The Future
No matter how difficult the past and present may be, the three religions are hopeful about the future. Evil and suffering cannot ultimately prevail. God has provided a condition (or state of being) for which our three religions have different names, but we agree on the term Paradise.
Divine?Human Encounter
The three Abrahamic religions believe that God and human beings can and should communicate with each other. By revelation God communicates to people, among which the most important are revelation through prophets. These revelations are recorded in the Holy Scriptures of each religion. While the Holy Scriptures of the three religions are not the very same, nevertheless the younger two religions acknowledge God?s truth as found in the previous religions, and encourage respect to the Holy Books. While each of the three religions does not merely focus on one set of writings, the key Scripture of Judaism is the Torah, the key Scripture of Christianity is the Bible, which consists of the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) and the New Testament, and the key Scripture of Islam is the Qur'an.
God?s Guidance
God did not leave us without guidelines for behavior. God provided us with sound basic rules to live by as well as a rational mind to learn how and when to apply those rules to our everyday life. All three religions, for example, abhor murder, the arbitrary killing of innocent people. Likewise, God wants us to be telling the truth and not to take from others what rightfully belongs to them. We are to respect the dignity of every person and help especially those who are not capable of helping themselves, such as widows, orphans, and the poor. All three religions believe in Golden Rule: doing to others what we wish others do unto us. All three religions foster modesty, moderation, and honest work. We are to submit ourselves to the will of God.
However, i have quite proofs that in hinduism there is somthing releated to islam in thier book but they just do not use it or neglect it but i don't recall it now and i may put it in a new thread in the future God willing.
Peace
Belief about God.
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are monotheistic religions, namely they believe that there is only one God.
Children of Abraham: Understanding human beings
The three religions believe that human beings are the highest creatures here on earth. We are the children of Abraham. God created us full of mystery, which means potential for continuous growth, both as a species and as individuals. We are capable of both good and evil.
The Future
No matter how difficult the past and present may be, the three religions are hopeful about the future. Evil and suffering cannot ultimately prevail. God has provided a condition (or state of being) for which our three religions have different names, but we agree on the term Paradise.
Divine?Human Encounter
The three Abrahamic religions believe that God and human beings can and should communicate with each other. By revelation God communicates to people, among which the most important are revelation through prophets. These revelations are recorded in the Holy Scriptures of each religion. While the Holy Scriptures of the three religions are not the very same, nevertheless the younger two religions acknowledge God?s truth as found in the previous religions, and encourage respect to the Holy Books. While each of the three religions does not merely focus on one set of writings, the key Scripture of Judaism is the Torah, the key Scripture of Christianity is the Bible, which consists of the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) and the New Testament, and the key Scripture of Islam is the Qur'an.
God?s Guidance
God did not leave us without guidelines for behavior. God provided us with sound basic rules to live by as well as a rational mind to learn how and when to apply those rules to our everyday life. All three religions, for example, abhor murder, the arbitrary killing of innocent people. Likewise, God wants us to be telling the truth and not to take from others what rightfully belongs to them. We are to respect the dignity of every person and help especially those who are not capable of helping themselves, such as widows, orphans, and the poor. All three religions believe in Golden Rule: doing to others what we wish others do unto us. All three religions foster modesty, moderation, and honest work. We are to submit ourselves to the will of God.
However, i have quite proofs that in hinduism there is somthing releated to islam in thier book but they just do not use it or neglect it but i don't recall it now and i may put it in a new thread in the future God willing.
Peace
The Truth;
maybe we did misinterpret your intentions, and if we have, I am sorry. The thread title is'why it's always (Islam Vs Christianity); you cannot be surprised then that we thought you were making the point that the differences are so great that Islam and Christianity can never live together in peace.
maybe we did misinterpret your intentions, and if we have, I am sorry. The thread title is'why it's always (Islam Vs Christianity); you cannot be surprised then that we thought you were making the point that the differences are so great that Islam and Christianity can never live together in peace.
Malus 12:9
Temporarily Deactive.
I apologize Truth if I have gone off the subject of you thread. However, I was going by what is posted, not what is intended on being posted
JerryL
Well-Known Member
It's interesting that you say "all" here and then move to saying "most" for everything else.
Actually, monotheism is only a few thousand years old. Some non-monotheistic pantheions:
Greek (Zeus et al)
Roman (Jupiter et al)
Egyptian (Osirus et al)
Wiccan (Dualist)
Zarathustrian (Dualist)
Messopotamian (Marduk et al)
Nordic (Odin et al)
Chinese (Celestial beuocracy)
Japanese Shinto
Animist traditions of North America and most of Africa (among others)
Aboriginial indegenous beliefs of the dreaming time.
Aztec
Ulmec
Buddist (no Gods, only enlightened beings)
Confucist (ancestor worship)
Hindu (multiple diety)
Daoist (no diety)
Satanist (personal diety)
to name a few.
Well, except Judaism didn't do it. It committed genocide against most of its neighbors. The Aztecs too were on something of a religious crusade to keep victims for sacrifice.
Buddism doesn't really touch on love (one of those desires you need to be free from), and Satanism says that it's rediculious to think you can love everyone, so you should love only some. I'm not sure what Hindu has to say about it, but I certainly see nothing in most of the other religions I mentioned that would have that.
Of course, they all have differnt ideas of "good". The Jewesh "good" included genocide. The Aztec "good" included human sacrifice. The Daoists are anti-expansionist, while the Christians have "the great commission".
alowyn
Member
oh, please. Let's make this easy and focus on the Abrahamic beliefs, shall we? All of them believe in one God. All of them believe that charity is essential. All of them have ten major commandments. Do i need to go on? it's the differences that matter ultimately, but these differences seem to overshadow the fact the similarities to the point where we've turned into enemies.JerryL said:
well, there it is. culture. A term closely related to religion - yes, i realise they are two different things, but every sect of a religion has one or more attached cultures. Obviously the main point of the war is wealth, power and territory, but culture is playing a huge part. I haven't bought into propoganda, i just believe that the war has opened up religious strife, as Johnny established with his example in Germany.
alowyn
Member
sorry guys, i overlooked this page. JerryL, what 'Jewish Genocide' are you referring to? It actually seems all three Abrahamic religions had their own crusades, but although it was in the name of religion, i think it did come down to a question of power.
And Hinduism actually boils down to monotheism - there's one Brahma with many forms. The same is true for Buddhism - the enlightened forms are only those who have come in tune with Brahma.
And Hinduism actually boils down to monotheism - there's one Brahma with many forms. The same is true for Buddhism - the enlightened forms are only those who have come in tune with Brahma.
JerryL
Well-Known Member
Alowyn(post60) said:
Jerry said:
No, let's not. I don't disagree that there are beliefs in common through all Abrahamic beliefs (for example the belief in Abraham). You said "every religion" and I dispute that heavily. So I'm asing for universal core beliefs.Alowyn said:
Take your pick. How about the destruction of the Hittites (unless you feel not killing the virgin girls excludes it from being genocide).
Historically I agree. Biblically, several wars were by the direct command of God.
You are discussing particular sects of Buddism and Hinduism (esp in the case of Buddism). There are buddists who overlap with several other religions, and they tend to incorporate those beliefs. That does not mean that these are itnrinsic to "buddism".
But if it makes it simpler: Do you agree that the Nordic beliefs in the pantheon of Gods including Odin was not monotheistic? (BTW there are modern followers, it's a recognized religion).