why it's always ( ISLAM vs. CHRISTIANITY )

[alowyn]

i wasn't saying every religion was monotheistic, i was commenting on what i understood of Hinduism. And though i am aware that there are as many sects of Hinduism as there are Hindus, the concept of an abstract Brahma is central.

Fine, i ought to be a bit more careful with what i say around here, it seems. However, off what i know of several religions, the concept of charity seems important in general. The concept of honouring ones parents and the importance of the family is often emphasised. Most, if not all, religions stress kindness. But that's beyond the point. Who are we to fight each other because we think that "our" God is better than "their" God as long as love between humans is a broad concept?

 

[TashaN]

Historically I agree. Biblically, several wars were by the direct command of God.

Direct command by God ???

Did God ask them direct order to fight???

* The problem is not with a particular religion but people before long time a go were using the religion and the church ( for example ) to collect money and people around the king and bless them sending them to wars as holy wars but actually it was only for power and wealth and the same with all abrahimic religions because the problem is not in the religion but in the people believeing in this religion explaining it as they wish according to thier desires.

 

[JerryL]

Fine, i ought to be a bit more careful with what i say around here, it seems. However, off what i know of several religions, the concept of charity seems important in general. The concept of honouring ones parents and the importance of the family is often emphasised. Most, if not all, religions stress kindness. But that's beyond the point. Who are we to fight each other because we think that "our" God is better than "their" God as long as love between humans is a broad concept?

themes are often repeated. I agree with that. People are genreally the same and looking for the same solutions to the same problems. Much like how different fish in different oceans have come to schooling, different religions in differnt continents tend to come to some of the same tennants. Though there are numerous exceptions for any tennant.

 

[TashaN]

The Truth;


maybe we did misinterpret your intentions, and if we have, I am sorry. The thread title is'why it's always (Islam Vs Christianity); you cannot be surprised then that we thought you were making the point that the differences are so great that Islam and Christianity can never live together in peace.

you don't have to be sorry and if i wanted to say that we can't live in peace together i was about to say: ISLAM vs. CHRISTIANITY but i said WHY before that to make you be sure that i mean why it's this way and why they are aginast each other.


Peace

 

[JerryL]

Direct command by God ???

Did God ask them direct order to fight???

If Moses is to be believed:

"The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 Avenge the people of Israel on the Midianites. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people."
[...]
"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves."
[...]
"The Lord said to Moses, 26 Take the count of the plunder that was taken, both of man and of beast, you and Eleazar the priest and the heads of the fathers' houses of the congregation, 27 and divide the plunder into two parts between the warriors who went out to battle and all the congregation. 28 And levy for the Lord a tribute from the men of war who went out to battle, one out of five hundred, of the people and of the oxen and of the donkeys and of the flocks. " - Numbers 31

 

[Malus 12:9]

It's interesting that you say "all" here and then move to saying "most" for everything else.

Because all religions have similarities, but why I said "most" is I was focusing on the
most "common" religions. We here to discuss the religions or what words I use?

, but I certainly see nothing in most of the other religions I mentioned that would have that.

There ya go.

Of course, they all have differnt ideas of "good".

I am aware of that, the main point was that almost (better use careful words here:biglaugh most religions try to encourage good, regardless of what name it has been "branded".

 

[JerryL]

Because all religions have similarities, but why I said "most" is I was focusing on the
most "common" religions. We here to discuss the religions or what words I use?

I'm discussing the original claim which I disputed: That there are core beliefs common to all religions.

I am aware of that, the main point was that almost (better use careful words here:biglaugh most religions try to encourage good, regardless of what name it has been "branded".

But that seems self-defined. Most religious encourage you do do the things that they encourage you to do and then define these things as "good". I'm not sure how you would have a religion that did not.

That's like saying "religious univerially attempt to offer a beleif structure". Of corse they do, that's part of how they came to be defined as a religion. Once we move out of tautologies though, I can find no core belief which is universal.

 

[Malus 12:9]

I can find no core belief which is universal.

Do not MOST, if not all, religions share the belief of one god? A few here:

LaVeyan Satanism: Self
Christianity: God (Lord)
Islam: Allah
Judaism: HaShem
Satanist: Satan

Buddhism:when Buddhists do worship some god it is sometimes because those Buddhists also consider themselves adherents to an additional religion or set of beliefs. There are Christian Buddhists, Jewish Buddhists, Wiccan Buddhists, etc. Since Buddhism focuses on different themes from most religions, it is highly compatible with other religions.

Yeah

 

[JerryL]

Do not MOST, if not all, religions share the belief of one god?

I've listed a dozen that do not:
African Animists
Native American Naturists
Japanese Shinto
Abroiginal Indegenious
Santeria
Confucists (and indegenious Chinese ancestor worshippers)
Greek (Zeus et al)
Roman (Jupiter et al)
Norwegian (Odin, et al)
Mesopotamian (Marduk, et al)
Egyptian (Osirus et al)

Every one of the religions you mention stems from teh same source (except perhaps LeVay Satanism, which would be disputeable on whether Christianity was it's source, or simply somthing it bounces off of)

 

[Malus 12:9]

Wile you disagreeing is fun, (although not as good as Deut), I shall return back on topic, and you
can have fun disagreeing there.

As Sura 9:29 of the Qur'an declares: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, [even if they are] of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [a special higher tax rate] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

On the surface, Islam and Christianity appear to have very little in common, however, as you get deeper into areas such as rituals, beliefs, ethics, founders, and sacred objects, the two show strong mutual similarities, particularly in the fundamental areas, while being totally different.

Perhaps it is always Islam VS Christianity as they are possibly the two mainstream religions.

 

[michel]

you don't have to be sorry and if i wanted to say that we can't live in peace together i was about to say: ISLAM vs. CHRISTIANITY but i said WHY before that to make you be sure that i mean why it's this way and why they are aginast each other.


Peace

Ah good point! I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post.

I believe that we must do what we can to stop the differences between Islam and Christianity; most of the differences, I believe, are founded on Misunderstandings. We are all brothers and sisters of God or Allah, and we should not fight.

 

[alowyn]

Direct command by God ???

Did God ask them direct order to fight???

Yes, i agree completely - it's not God that instructed it - man just put words in God's mouth. We manipulate God's word for our own benefit, and all crusades are nothing more than that. as my teacher used to say, "Satan is Christianity's greatest ally."

 

[JerryL]

I believe that we must do what we can to stop the differences between Islam and Christianity; most of the differences, I believe, are founded on Misunderstandings.

Are you in favor of enforcing religious law, as established in the Quran and OT, or are you opposed? Which religious law?

 

[TashaN]

As Sura 9:29 of the Qur'an declares: "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, [even if they are] of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [a special higher tax rate] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

* As i used to explain always in many threads that every single surah has several meanings because it's a holy book not just a normal book we read and every single verse has it's meaning, where, when God said it and why.

for this verse you just mentined was after Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) had finished with the unbeliever arabs then he sent messages to kings asking them to enter to Islam because God ordered prophet Mohamed (PBUH) to spread Islam ( because that king didn't allow muslims to talk to the king's people about islam while other nations allowed it and so many countries at that time from Asia and Africa entered to islam with no force with no tax just because they allowed some muslims to entet there and they liked islam ) then the king of Rome cut out the message that Prophet Mohamed sent to him.

Than, God gave the order to fight and prophet Mohamed collected an army targeting the king ( he was at that time in "Iran" i guess ) then when he is still in the middle of the way to there they got tired and there were no food and water avilable for everybody then Prophet Mohamed prayed to God so they can go back from this mission then God allowed him to do so then after prophet Mohamed (PBUH) died muslism could enter there but that after quite a while from Prophet's death.


(( no body now can do the same taking his weapon targeting to any country because that was for specific time for Prophet's army and in case also if the people of the book attacks muslims so they can defend themselves ))

and the proof is that when we read the history we can find out that even non muslism scholar were coming to muslims countries in order to seek knowledge at that time and no one could harm them and you can see also AL-ANDLOS ( spain now ) where muslims were living with people like christians and jews ( check history books ).


Peace ...

 

[michel]

Are you in favor of enforcing religious law, as established in the Quran and OT, or are you opposed? Which religious law?

................."I believe that we must do what we can to stop the differences between Islam and Christianity; most of the differences, I believe, are founded on Misunderstandings. We are all brothers and sisters of God or Allah, and we should not fight."....................

I am sorry that I did not make myself clear; I am in favour of whichever religion preaching and maintaining their tenets, but I think the 'differences' (as in 'arguments - areas where one appears to be contradictory to another) should have far less importance attached to them.

I could point to a post on this forum, between a Muslim and a Catholic, in which the two used language that confused both of them into thinking there was rivalry and dissent. That is what I meant.

 

[JerryL]

................."I believe that we must do what we can to stop the differences between Islam and Christianity; most of the differences, I believe, are founded on Misunderstandings. We are all brothers and sisters of God or Allah, and we should not fight."....................

I am sorry that I did not make myself clear; I am in favour of whichever religion preaching and maintaining their tenets, but I think the 'differences' (as in 'arguments - areas where one appears to be contradictory to another) should have far less importance attached to them.

These two beliefs are dyametrically opposed. I know Christian theonomists who would like to maintain their tennants very closely, including executing all who commit heracy by preaching false gods (such as, from their perspecive, Muslims).

When a Muslim Taliban member, wanting to closely follow his tennants, decides to allow no heracy, and a Christian Fundamnetalist attempts to follow the great commission?

Followed closely, war seems the almost unavoidable outcome of the tennants of Islam and Christianity. It's only when secularism takes hold that they can function near each other.

 

[Omer]

Howdy everyone;

I have just seen this thread this evening.. I totally agree with you Michel, that Christianity and Islam should emphasise similarities, and promote mutual understanding between both faith members. I got sad to see how people can hurt others' beliefs to prove their point. But I'm full of hope because there are people out there who knows that inter-faith dialogue is the key to stop hatred and misuderstandings. If we learn how to respect one another and learn from each other, I strongly believe that the winners will be both sides, as looking down on other's beliefs could make the both sides losers.

Peace and Blessings

 

[JerryL]

I have just seen this thread this evening.. I totally agree with you Michel, that Christianity and Islam should emphasise similarities, and promote mutual understanding between both faith members.

Wouldn't that be unloving? The Chrisians would be telling the Muslims, who are condemed to eternal hellfilre, that they are "ok", and giving them no impetus to turn from their heritical ways.

I *think* the Muslim view of eternity for Christians is a bit more positive, so it might indeed be appropriate for them.

I got sad to see how people can hurt others' beliefs to prove their point. But I'm full of hope because there are people out there who knows that inter-faith dialogue is the key to stop hatred and misuderstandings. If we learn how to respect one another and learn from each other, I strongly believe that the winners will be both sides, as looking down on other's beliefs could make the both sides losers.

Would not the people in paradise be winners and the people in hell be loosers? Compramise is a wonderful thing from a secular point-of-view, but seems self-defeating for a Christian.

 

[flacsmada]

People who think there can be compromise miss the point of Christianity and fall into the new age movement catoglory. Jesus says "I am the only way to God" and in the ten commandments God states "You shall have no other God but me." Now it might quickly be argued that they are the same god. This also can be dismissed on the account of the kuran states you have to do more good works to outweigh the bad to enter into the gates of that Heaven. Where the only true God is about Jesus Christ life not ours and states the only way to Heaven is through His blood atonement for our sins and not that our works can do it. Plus many other key differences. If this is not clear enough I am sorry you like to argue, but this is the simple objective truth of the matter.

Adam

 

[Omer]

hey flacsmada and JerryL;

flacsmada, I think the point you're missing is that in Islam it is taught that people does not enter paradise because that they did more good than evil, instead, it is through God's mercy that we will enter Paradise, because God clearly states that our prayers and good deeds never can make us enter paradise, if it isn't for God's mercy. I think learning more about each other's faiths will stop ignorance invading our minds , be it me or you who is misinterpreting other's faith.