Why ************ it?

[Reverend Rick]

If you say that you're Christian and you believe in God and Jesus but you don't believe in some of the bible, say Noah's Flood, or alot of the tenets, what percentage are you Christian? Why not, if you're christian or any Religion that has a popular dogma, don't you believe in it fully, why not dive head first and totally commit to it? At what point does one stop being a Christian? What's the minimum requirement?

Just remember, you asked the question.

I BELIEVE, to be a Christian, you must believe Jesus is the son of God. You further believe that he paid the ultimate price for your sins. A Christian believes that they are not perfect, they are forgiven and saved by his grace.

We further believe, that Jesus was the first and the last and following him is our path to salvation meaning no one goes to the father but through the son of God.

I personally believe that we Christians are not anywhere near perfect and our best deeds are nothing but filthy rags before him. If not for his sacrifice and grace, we would not be worthy of the kingdom of heaven and everlasting life.

My understanding is, we Christians should love our neighbors and forgive those who have done us wrong just as we would want to be forgiven when we do wrong.

It is not our place to pass judgement on anyone IMHO.

In short, Christians should follow Christ and wait for his return. These efforts will not be perfect by a long shot and should not be expected to be perfect IMHO.

To receive Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you must believe he is the Son of God and ask for his forgiveness. The gift of everlasting life is free.

In case I have not made this post clear enough, this post is purely my personal belief and the content was asked for and should not be construed as proselytizing.

Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited.

 

[Katzpur]

If you say that you're Christian and you believe in God and Jesus but you don't believe in some of the bible, say Noah's Flood, or alot of the tenets, what percentage are you Christian? Why not, if you're christian or any Religion that has a popular dogma, don't you believe in it fully, why not dive head first and totally commit to it? At what point does one stop being a Christian? What's the minimum requirement?

The minimum requirement is believing that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God the Eternal Father, and that He was sent to Earth to atone for the sins of mankind, allowing God's children to be resurrected after death and to be reconciled to Him someday. Certainly not rocket science.

 

[sojourner]

The minimum requirement is believing that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God the Eternal Father, and that He was sent to Earth to atone for the sins of mankind, allowing God's children to be resurrected after death and to be reconciled to Him someday. Certainly not rocket science.

I don't believe that Jesus was sent to earth to atone for the sins of humanity. Does that make me a not-Christian? I further believe that we are reconciled through the Incarnation. Does that further make me a not-Christian?

I've read the Bible, and I don't ever recall Jesus saying that we had to believe certain things about him.

 

[Thief]

Parables...did anyone mention the parables.

Without His teachings on your mind and heart....all else is fake.

 

[Songbird]

Considering the endless variations of religious beliefs, the only thing required to be a member of most religions is to label yourself as such. Although, some seem to require various ceremonies involving water, incantations, and/or wearing funny clothes, etc.

As far as not believing in the factual truth of certain religious stories, the new fashion seems to be to label stories as "metaphor" once the viability of such stories becomes untenable.

Well said. Especially the label part. And the metaphor part. Aaaand the other parts. I like all your parts, I guess.

 

[McBell]

I like all your parts, I guess.

Get a room already...

 

[Songbird]

Get a room already...

Will you be there? Your parts seem nice too.

 

[McBell]

Will you be there? Your parts seem nice too.

:run:

 

[Songbird]

:run:

For conversation and good food, of course. I'm obviously a proper ladybird.

 

[Katzpur]

I don't believe that Jesus was sent to earth to atone for the sins of humanity. Does that make me a not-Christian? I further believe that we are reconciled through the Incarnation. Does that further make me a not-Christian?

No, it doesn't. If you consider yourself to be a Christian, I'm fine with that. I've never been one of those people who says that if someone doesn't see eye-to-eye with me on every point of doctrine, he isn't a Christian. I gave what to me seemed like a pretty all-encompassing definition, but I should have known it would end up offending somebody.

I've read the Bible, and I don't ever recall Jesus saying that we had to believe certain things about him.

Here's what I think. There is such a thing as absolute truth. God wants us to find it. He will help us find it, but it might not be during our mortal lives that we do. The Bible is a lot more clear with regards to how a Christian must behave than it is with regards to what a person must believe.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The earliest Christians Believed the story of Jesus that they Heard from wandering teachers.
They had no Bible.

Are you saying they were not Christian?

The Bible is only a collection of religious writings, thought relevant to later Converts.
It contains much of the Old Jewish texts, and remembrances and letters following Jesus death.
very little of these writings can be guaranteed as totally accurate, or other than myth.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I don't believe that Jesus was sent to earth to atone for the sins of humanity. Does that make me a not-Christian? I further believe that we are reconciled through the Incarnation. Does that further make me a not-Christian?

So what was the purpose of dieing on the cross? Surely you believe that anyone capable of walking on water could have stopped his own Crucifixion any time he wanted. So you don't believe Jesus was the sacrificial lamb and we no longer need to offer sacrifices to atone for our sins?

I've read the Bible, and I don't ever recall Jesus saying that we had to believe certain things about him.

Very true

 

[sojourner]

So what was the purpose of dieing on the cross? Surely you believe that anyone capable of walking on water could have stopped his own Crucifixion any time he wanted. So you don't believe Jesus was the sacrificial lamb and we no longer need to offer sacrifices to atone for our sins?

To satisfy the power needs of the establishment. Jesus didn't have to be crucified. he could have shut up, stopped teaching, and slunk off into obscurity. But what would that have accomplished? By doing what he did, Jesus showed that some things are worth dying for. By refusing to give in to the powers-that-be, Jesus showed that God's order is more important than humanity's order. By going to the cross, Jesus became a martyr, which served to catapult his message into a full-fledged movement. Nothing magical here -- nothing of any more spiritual importance than to show that self-sacrifice is a noble thing, and that, by dying, Jesus suffered as we suffer. Therefore, Jesus is with us -- even in suffering and dying.

 

[ninerbuff]

What is the difference between a good Christian and a bad Christian?

The good christians vote the bad christians into office?

 

[Katzpur]

To satisfy the power needs of the establishment. Jesus didn't have to be crucified. he could have shut up, stopped teaching, and slunk off into obscurity. But what would that have accomplished? By doing what he did, Jesus showed that some things are worth dying for. By refusing to give in to the powers-that-be, Jesus showed that God's order is more important than humanity's order. By going to the cross, Jesus became a martyr, which served to catapult his message into a full-fledged movement. Nothing magical here -- nothing of any more spiritual importance than to show that self-sacrifice is a noble thing, and that, by dying, Jesus suffered as we suffer. Therefore, Jesus is with us -- even in suffering and dying.

But the word "martyr" does definitely suggest giving up one's life for a higher purpose (higher, at least, than "to satisfy the power needs of the establishment"). I'm curious, though... are you saying that had Jesus not freely given His life, the end result would have been exactly the same as it is? Humans would still have been resurrected eventually and all would have been forgiven of their sins? Do you see Jesus Christ has having had any role other than to "catapult His message into a full-fledged movement"?

 

[sojourner]

But the word "martyr" does definitely suggest giving up one's life for a higher purpose (higher, at least, than "to satisfy the power needs of the establishment"). I'm curious, though... are you saying that had Jesus not freely given His life, the end result would have been exactly the same as it is? Humans would still have been resurrected eventually and all would have been forgiven of their sins? Do you see Jesus Christ has having had any role other than to "catapult His message into a full-fledged movement"?

I'm not a "substitutionary atonement" Xian. Jesus did not need to die in order to forgive our sins. He forgave the handicapped man of his sins without dying, didn't he? He gave us the power to forgive sin without dying, right? It is X's life -- not death -- that is efficacious for us.

His "role" was to reconcile humanity to God, which was accomplished by God becoming fully human. I understand that, as a non-Trinitarian, this doesn't work for you. But it does for me.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Heck, if I knew what all those stars meant I'd be able to answer the question.

 

[sojourner]

Heck, if I knew what all those stars meant I'd be able to answer the question.

You don't want to know. The curse filter knows best... :bow:

 

[Katzpur]

I'm not a "substitutionary atonement" Xian. Jesus did not need to die in order to forgive our sins. He forgave the handicapped man of his sins without dying, didn't he? He gave us the power to forgive sin without dying, right? It is X's life -- not death -- that is efficacious for us.

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

His "role" was to reconcile humanity to God, which was accomplished by God becoming fully human. I understand that, as a non-Trinitarian, this doesn't work for you. But it does for me.

You're right that it doesn't work for me, but I wouldn't say that this is because I'm a non-Trinitarian Christian. Most Trinitarian Christians I know believe that Jesus Christ died to atone for our sins. I don't really see much of a link or lack of one between substitutionary atonement and the Trinity.

 

[rockstarwife628]

It's not about whether or not we believe it "fully" - for example, many don't believe that the Bible was *meant* to be taken 100% literally. There have been so many different interpretations for so long, just because someone doesn't agree with the literal one doesn't mean they reject the Bible, or Jesus or Christianity, merely that they reject literalism. Funny thing is, as far as I'm aware, this kind of literalism has only really been around for the last couple of hundred years, and isn't something we've seen throughout the whole 2 thousand year history of Christianity.

A Christian is someone who believes in the person and message of Jesus - however they understand it - and strives to follow it, who works to emulate him in his/her life. There aren't any other prerequisites or conditions than that. The rest just helps define what kind or brand of Christian someone is. And while I might have to meet certain standards to consider myself a Calvinist or a fundamentalist (just for example), that doesn't mean that rejecting the Calvinist or fundamentalist way of thought means I must also cast off my Christian identity.

There are many kinds of Christians, but we are all united in a basic belief in and commitment to Jesus.