Why is the American Conservative Movement so Anti-American?

[Sunstone]

No I am not just calling you full of BS for the fun of it. I am doing it because you are basically trolling. You can not assign all Conservatives to one set of ideas. I do not know what political beliefs you expound to, your age, gender, or educational level. However, I know that you are expressing anti-American ideals by saying that Conservatives are anti-American. I also know that whether or not I agree with various organizations does not necessarily indicate that I am anti-American; just anti-liberal in various programs.

I can only guess you did not bother to read the OP. Otherwise you would know I was talking about the Conservative Movement in America, rather than about everyone who calls themselves a Conservative.

But I've gone ahead and changed the title of this thread to make things ever clearer for those folks who cannot, for whatever reason, be bothered with reading the OP.

 

[Sunstone]

America is an unifying identity - an idea whose central feature is the notion of a collective or shared identity in which we work together toward common goals, mutually sacrificing but mutually benefiting from sharing this common identity.

The central value of the modern conservative movement, as defined by its main philosophers, is self-interest, which is contrary to maintaining a working shared identity if elevated to the position of the highest value.

A stable society places civic virtue slightly ahead of self-interest, recognizing that both are vital to sustainable prosperity.

I see you still possess your knack for getting to the heart of a matter. Do you think Ayn Rand has had anything to do with the current imbalance in the Conservative Movement between self-interest and civic virtue?

 

[ninerbuff]

The far, far right are generally religiously motivated, not to mention possessed of a fair number of bigotries. In a nation that is finally getting past its reliance on religion, and finally giving up its bigotries, it's only natural that those people would feel threatened.

Thing is that if religion is the motivation, then they should be loving, unselfish, caring, non racist, etc. Unfortunately, many are the total opposite.

 

[Revoltingest]

Conservatives are as American & un-American as lefties.
'America' is what happens here.

 

[esmith]

Is that so? Would you like to elaborate on how and why?

Yes. Yes, because you espouse the idea that anyone that does not agree with your idea of an American must be anti-American. Thus, if you only allow individuals that agree with your philosophy to have a say in governing you would have a oligarchy. And I believe that a oligarchy is an anti-American form of government. Good enough for you?

 

[Sunstone]

Yes. Yes, because you espouse the idea that anyone that does not agree with your idea of an American must be anti-American.

Could you point out where Louis (or for that matter, I) has ever said that anyone who does not agree with his (or my) idea of an American must be anti-American? Or are you just one of those non-serious people who likes to make up facts even faster than a Fox News producer with the runs?

...I believe that a oligarchy is an anti-American form of government.

We agree on that point, at least.

 

[esmith]

Unfortunately the OP has decided that the American Conservative Movement expound the beliefs of the organizations that the OP listed. Whereas this is an inaccurate descriptions of the American Conservative Movement. As far as I am concerned the American Conservative Movement is:
The Origins of the Modern American Conservative Movement | The Heritage Foundation

 

[Engyo]

Unfortunately the OP has decided that the American Conservative Movement expound the beliefs of the organizations that the OP listed. Whereas this is an inaccurate descriptions of the American Conservative Movement. As far as I am concerned the American Conservative Movement is:
The Origins of the Modern American Conservative Movement | The Heritage Foundation

It is kinda all about how you define things, isn't it?

 

[Sunstone]

Unfortunately the OP has decided that the American Conservative Movement expound the beliefs of the organizations that the OP listed. Whereas this is an inaccurate descriptions of the American Conservative Movement. As far as I am concerned the American Conservative Movement is:
The Origins of the Modern American Conservative Movement | The Heritage Foundation

Do you have any creditable sources for your claims? The Heritage foundation was, I recall, begun by Paul Weyrich with funding from Joseph Coors. Hardly non-partisan, it seems little more than a propaganda outlet. Although your standards might vary...

 

[T-Dawg]

It is not un-American. Your thread is simply a cry for the usual suspects to come running to bash the Republican Party because you guys are looking real bad in the USA at this time in history. Have a nic bash and keep trying to wiggle out of the mess you guys have placed the country in. Fox News will not allow the people to overlook your contributions to the failures of the USA.

Actually, I think this thread is simply an attempt to make fun of your thread. I personally believe you did a much better job of making conservatism look bad than Sunstone did, though .

(Oh, yeah, and your constant worship of Fox News is one of the reasons I'm thoroughly convinced that you're nothing but a troll. The fact that you dote over them so, and the way you word your posts, either suggests that you're extremely mentally unstable and need a controlling, dogmatic group to bind on to, or more likely, that you're simply trying to make yourself look as dumb as possible in order to make everyone else as furious as possible.)
(Your insistence that liberals caused our current financial crisis that started when conservatives were in power is also an issue.)

 

[esmith]

It appears that the OP does not like the Fox News Channel. Whereas, I find that the Fox News programs, note I said News Programs not opinion programs, deliver the most accurate balanced News. Yes the opinion programs are center to center right in their opinion; but they do give the other side a chance to express their views. I suppose some people say that the Chris Matthews Show, and Meet the Press are not slanted to the left of center.

 

[Sunstone]

It appears that the OP does not like the Fox News Channel. Whereas, I find that the Fox News programs, note I said News Programs not opinion programs, deliver the most accurate balanced News. Yes the opinion programs are center to center right in their opinion; but they do give the other side a chance to express their views. I suppose some people say that the Chris Matthews Show, and Meet the Press are not slanted to the left of center.

I suppose if I watched as much Fox News as you do, I'd share your wacky opinion of it.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

It appears that the OP does not like the Fox News Channel. Whereas, I find that the Fox News programs, note I said News Programs not opinion programs, deliver the most accurate balanced News. Yes the opinion programs are center to center right in their opinion; but they do give the other side a chance to express their views. I suppose some people say that the Chris Matthews Show, and Meet the Press are not slanted to the left of center.

I would say that PBS news hour gives the most balanced news on TV. It also leaves most of the light crapy celebrity news that is covered on msnbc, cnn, and fox.

 

[Sunstone]

I would say that PBS news hour gives the most balanced news on TV. It also leaves most of the light crapy celebrity news that is covered on msnbc, cnn, and fox.

I like PBS. Or I did before I got rid of my TV. Now I stream Democracy Now! And the lack of a pro-corporate slant is noticeable.

 

[Engyo]

It appears that the OP does not like the Fox News Channel. Whereas, I find that the Fox News programs, note I said News Programs not opinion programs, deliver the most accurate balanced News. Yes the opinion programs are center to center right in their opinion; but they do give the other side a chance to express their views. I suppose some people say that the Chris Matthews Show, and Meet the Press are not slanted to the left of center.

I think I'm going to start watching Onion News. They have the most realistic slogan around: "We Scream Louder!"

 

[Debunker]

Actually, I think this thread is simply an attempt to make fun of your thread. I personally believe you did a much better job of making conservatism look bad than Sunstone did, though .

(Oh, yeah, and your constant worship of Fox News is one of the reasons I'm thoroughly convinced that you're nothing but a troll. The fact that you dote over them so, and the way you word your posts, either suggests that you're extremely mentally unstable and need a controlling, dogmatic group to bind on to, or more likely, that you're simply trying to make yourself look as dumb as possible in order to make everyone else as furious as possible.)
(Your insistence that liberals caused our current financial crisis that started when conservatives were in power is also an issue.)

I am not here to simply debate. Its a place to have fun with my friends. Sunstone is my friend and I tease him and you with my affection for Fox. I know how you guys hate fair and balanced.

Until the pundits of "Fox Lies" point out the lies, I have the edge on them in rhetorical exercise. Its fun to watch their faces turn red and their blood pressure sky every time they call me names and talk about me in third party discussions. I enjoy that. I think its great how the usual suspects team up on the few conservatives on the forum and still can not win a single argument.

Some of the usual suspects are Christians. I love it when they use religion against me. I claim to be a Bible thumping, Christian conservative, fundamentalist. What I lack in encyclopedic knowledge, I make up the difference in my superior philosophical recognition of the truth. That really set me free. You should try that type of honesty. Everybody should. It really works. From that point of view, you know you don't know it all, but you know the other fellow doesn't know it either.

That also is the difference between Fox and the rest of the liberal news media. Fox brings the facts, and you decide. The other networks bring you the story but the facts may or may not support the story. The liberals always bring the same story and if there is the possibility that a liberal will look bad in the story, they alter the facts to change the story.

 

[Sunstone]

Sunstone is my friend...

Friend? But you're my messiah. I have seen with my own eyes that you walk on bull manure. Such a miracle!

 

[esmith]

Sustone, since you have decided that you either don't know or don't care what the American Conservative Movement has as their foundation beliefs(since you will not put forward your understanding of them). Would you care to expound on what your opinion of the "correct" ideals of an American should be.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Ayn Rand. When in doubt, blame Ayn Rand.

(Just kidding, of course.)

 

[Sunstone]

Sustone, since you have decided that you either don't know or don't care what the American Conservative Movement has as their foundation beliefs(since you will not put forward your understanding of them).

Are you always so intellectually dishonest about the people you oppose in debates? If so, you can consider our conversation ended, my friend. I might stoop to insult a joker now and then, but I don't knowingly waste my time trying to debate with people who are not intellectually serious people.