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Featured Why is Revelation about "our" immediate future?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by e.r.m., Apr 20, 2016.

  1. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    I've heard predictions since the 80s about the prophecies in Revelation coming to pass in the next couple of decades or so. I imagine since the Bible was first published and mass distributed that the public has always thought that the prophecies would come to pass in their immediate futures as well. I'm wondering, amongst those who believe that most of the prophecies in the Book of Revelation are yet to be fulfilled, why do they, or you, believe they were written about your near future? Even if most of the prophecies are yet to be fulfilled, why would they not be fulfilled 300 years from now? Why do we think it's about "us"? Why would the signs of the end times be any different now than they would be in the year 2250?

    Thank you.
     
  2. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Why are all magical journeys about someone chosen to become the hero(ine)? People who have lost all meaning in their lives are desperate for some, so they like to imagine they will be soldiers for Jesus or something, because a God who can flood a world to remove sin (incompletely) totally needs human help or something ...
     
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  3. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Thank you.
     
  4. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Since it is a biblical question, I will try to answer it as such. For one, I do not believe that it speaks of an immediate future. Jesus warned against people that taught such nonsense and said that no one knows not even the angels of heaven but only the Father knows. So anyone who is teaching a soon fulfillment of the book of Revelation or sets dates for the return of the Messiah (we all know certain groups are ninja masters at predicting the end) are talking foolishness.
     
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  5. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    We know that the book of Revelation was pretty much understood after its writing as a book of victory over the oppression the early church faced particularly at the hands of the Romans. The symbols were both understood and real to them.

    However, there was debate about the authorship of the book, even though it says "John on Patmos", and also the issue of the "millennial reign", which doesn't show up as a teaching in any gospel or even as part of the oral tradition.
     
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  6. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Prophecies have /are occuring.

    Why wouldn't people think that the 'end times' are ''here''?
     
  7. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    There have always been and will always be events that will be taken as fulfillments. The scriptures didn't say specifics like president Bill Clinton or 9/11. It listed symbols. Events will continue on as long as earth does. Why do you automatically think today's events are more significant that events 150 years from now. Why wouldn't these prophecies be about our distant future? They will have bad events too.
     
  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I like the notion ....the spiritual event begins right after your last breath.
    the kingdom is not of this world
     
  9. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Ok, thank you.
     
    #9 e.r.m., Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
  10. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    There are times of transition, but "end" is something that hasn't happened despite multiple global extinctions and likely never will until the sun eats the earth as it dies.

    There are several types of biblical prophecies:
    1. Stuff we wish will happen.
    2. Stuff that happens all the time and indicates nothing real specific.
    3. Stuff that happened before we wrote it, but we wrote it like we knew about it prior to it occurring.
     
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  11. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Yes, #3 happens a lot. And there's always a reason they didn't come out with it until after it happened.

    But I will add a #4. They try to match historical events 2 predictions that were written before period, and it's never an exact match. I think this one applies most to Revelation.
     
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  12. Walter Russell

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    I've thought about this as well as i'm sure many have. As a whole, Revelation has more esoteric information in it than any other book.
    I've posted in other threads that the bible is Astrotheology. After reading Revelation through that lens, I see the 4 beast at the throne of god for what they are, the 4 fixed signs of the zodiac. The seven seals, bowls of wrath as the 5 planets visible to the naked eye in those times, mars,mercury,venus,saturn,jupiter along with the sun and moon. Its a book that describes how the universe or atleast our part of works. The influence those orbs in the night sky have over our planet and their effects.
    This is just one of many of Revelations wisdoms i'm sure. At some point the elite will wish they had left that book out with Enoch and the rest.
     
  13. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    This is in the pretext that the Bible is not divine, right? That is not my belief, so, your ''interpretation'', of the Scriptures, is not relevant to my /or others reading of the text. I'm not sure why you think it would be the same, or even make sense to you. I assume you wouldn't be able to interpret any of it, because if you could, you would not think it merely fictional, or instructional book. ie 'list of rules'
     
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  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    As one who sees the prophesies in Revelation corresponding to the ones in Daniel, I believe that we are deep into the "time of the end".
    The end of the present age is almost upon us.

    So much was to take place before the end of the present world system under the control of a pretender who asserted that he could be a god to humans if they just had a knowledge of evil....and that like him, they would be like God too. He lied. Under his rulership, man has descended into more and more wickedness, just as God knew it would. It was the only way to prove to both angels and man that God's way of ruling was superior. He handed world rulership over to the devil to show us where independence from God would lead. (Luke 4:5, 6)

    Daniel saw beasts too and identified them as world powers. He also wrote down everything that God showed him (like the apostle John did) but he told Daniel that nothing in his book would be understood until "the time of the end". (Dan 12:9, 10) The last ruling powers of Bible prophesy are about to be deposed. (Dan 2:44) God's kingdom will "come", ready or not, and will "crush" and then replace all the failed world rulerships under the devil's control.

    The Bible has been warning about the "great and fear inspiring Day of Jehovah" for many centuries now (Joel 2:30-32).....but taking into account that the God of the Bible does not operate in earth years, we can account for the time it has taken as universal time, where 1,000 years is like "a day" to God. (2 Pet 3:8)

    It took about 2,000 years for the Messiah to come the first time. It has been almost another 2,000 years and the sign that Jesus gave to indicate his presence as ruling King, have all occurred in the last hundred years. There is only one part of the prophesy still to be fulfilled, and that is the actual judgment itself.

    Luke 21:34-36:
    “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon youas a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth.Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.

    This is clearly about the final judgment, not just the fall of Jerusalem.


    The coming of the kingdom is imminent. Like the days of Noah, Jesus said that the warning will be largely ignored by the masses, (Matt 24:37-39) but just as the people of that era were confident that Noah's words would never come true, they had to come face to face with the fact that he had been right all along...so it will be with the nay-sayers who think it will never happen. (2 Pet 3:3-7)
     
  15. Berserk

    Berserk Member

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    In assessing the modern relevance of the Book of Revelation, here are just 3 of the facts must be kept in mind:

    (1) The symbolic number 666 in Rev. 13:18 is explicitly applied to "a man." But who? In the 1980s, the witty answer was "Ronald Wilson Reagan" (note the 6 letters in each name!) . But Revelation was written in 2 stages, the earlier of which coincided with the flight of Nero from Rome to Asia Minor. In Hebrew each letter stands for a number. If the Hebrew letters of "Emperor Nero" ("Caesar Neron" are totaled, the sum is 666. Modern scholars generally accept this as the original referent of the number.

    (2) In support of this identification is the identity of "The Beast" of 13:1-3. The Beast is mortally wounded, but demonically restored to life to continue persecuting Christians. We learn from Roman historians of that era (e. g. Suetonius) that rumors circulated that Nero had not really committed suicide as some supposed, but was rather raised up to bring an army to restore his reign as emperor. Exploiting this terror, 3 Nero impersonators were reported. So "the Beast" of 13:18 seems to be based on these rumors.

    (3) Revelation identifies the endtime empire as "Babylon (17:5, 17)," a symbol of Rome in contemporary literature, not the Roman Catholic Church! This identification is implicit in 1 Peter 5:13 and is used elsewhere in Jewish apocalyptic. It was too dangerous for early Jews and Christians to explicitly excoriate Rome in their written documents. They needed some circumlocution. Babylon is, like Rome, the city on 7 hills of Rev. 17:9. To ensure loyalty Rome instituted the emperor cult in which everyone was required on penalty of death to offer sacrifice to Caesar as god and lord. Christians refused to do this and paid the ultimate penalty for their refusal. The prophecy of future persecution from the Beast was repeatedly fulfilled until the time of the first Christian emperor, Constantine.


    the early Christians hoped that Jesus would return "soon," a term that was never given more specificity. Does the prophecy also have an application to our time? That is uncertain, but if it does, it does so by treating these symbols of Rome as types of future empires.
     
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  16. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Thank you. That makes more sense to me than trying to match Revelation to current events.
     
  17. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    It is not about Zodiac signs.
     
  18. Walter Russell

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    Not just about zodiac signs but zodiac signs are there and its not deniable. What its not about is a sky daddy coming to save your azz!
     
  19. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    It is not at all about Zodiac signs and it is very deniable.
     
  20. Brian Schuh

    Brian Schuh Well-Known Member

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    Jesus in Mathew 24, said that that generation that heard his discourse would not pass away until all these things came to pass. In 70 C.E. people witnessed a man in the clouds with an army of angels on horses. Also people with spiritual bodies were seen coming out of graveyards in fulfillment of the last verse of Daniel 12. The Christian Millennium lasted from 70 C.E. to 1071 C.E. when Muslims took Jerusalem in the Crusades and has gone down in history books as the Christian Millennium. Revelation is already fulfilled. This is called preterism. St. John was writing about a crisis that occurred at the time he wrote the book. That's apocalyptic literature for you. He even was told, write what you see for it is soon to take place. This interpretation is called preterism.
     
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