Why is being gay considered wrong?

[Aqualung]

But Jesus also said not to judge, unless you want to be judged.

That doesn't mean that I shouldn't read the Bible and figure out which things are okay to do and which aren't.

 

[Aqualung]

No people should think that is wrong if they put their faith in a belief that it is wrong. Scripture is an excuse to back up such a belief. There is a thread asking for biblical scripture that condemns homosexuality. I am of the belief that no such scripture exists and so far my arguments and analyses have gone unchallenged which only further backs up that view.

Well, I guess I'll just have to mosey on over to that thread, eh? While I have posted a few things in those ones, I don't recall your posts off the top of my head, so I'll go look at them and see what I have to say.

 

[Draka]

I would respect that person a lot more then someone like Draka who tripped up on her own words and ended up agreeing with me while denying she agrees with me.

Cold-Stone Advantage
Galatians 5:21

What exactly did I agree with you on? What words have I supposedly tripped on? And what is your problem with me other than I have called you on your rudeness? You have taken to dropping my name in many posts now as just a way to slam on me instead of straight out talking to me. What is your flippin' problem??? I have not slammed on Christianity at all...but merely the way in which your posts seem to drip with happy sarcasm and certain eloquently put insults. Using quotes from the Bible is one thing, and many here do that with no problems, it is the words of your choice you use around those quotes that "nicely" offend. You have offended not only homosexuals, but lumped all Pagan religions into "deviant behavior" (as you describe homosexuality and link it to Paganism), as well as Christians who are either homosexual or accept homosexuality without judgement. You have effectively gone out of your way to offend anyone who is not of the exact same mind as you. And because, it seems, that I have the gonads to confront you on this I have become your little punching bag you take a swing at out of nowhere in some of your posts.

Swing away Cold Stone...I'm tougher than I appear.Knockout

 

[Mike182]

If this thread was entitled: Why is adultery considered wrong? I would have presented the biblical Judeo-Christian position on the matter. I doubt I would get very much disagreement regarding the fact that adultery is wrong via the Judeo-Christian worldview. You don't have to agree with the worldview, but it is the worldview of this specific philosophy of thinking (Judeo-Christian).

Thus a person who commits adultery and believes that it is NOT wrong to do so, would be by definition a NON-Christian. Now they may challenge the position, but they cannot change the position they challenge.

i completely disagree with this on a fundamental level - lets get these technicalities sorted out shall we

a christian is a folower of christ - this is completely independant of how you view homosexuality, abortion, adultery, masturbation, murder, theft, and many other sins

if you are a follower of christ then you are called to live according to his life - in the new testiment - this is not to say that the old testiment is invalid, but along with jesus came the new covenant with him as its head - and in the new testiment there are very few verses that can be used to jusitify an anti-gay view, and these verses have been twisted out of language and context for many hundreds of years (for the other thread "scripture to condemn homosexuality")

and secondly, you have offended and insulted many people on this forum in the way you present such views - im not saying you cannot hold the view you have, you are indeed entitled to it - but hidden sarcasm and unheeded blows are not called for. for instance you have made several snide remarks trying to show yourself as superior by saying things like "here in theology we call this a 'theodicy'" and "thats called in philosophy 'dishonesy'" and "if you are confident in your position, i would respect you more that i would a person like Draka" who has done absolutley nothing to lower herself for such criticism and remarks - grow up!

newsflash, the people here defending homosexuality ARE confident in their position - i think your vision is too clouded to see that we are fine how we are, i hope that does not upset you

C_P

 

[michel]

Bravo Corrupt_Priest ! I endorse every word of your last post. I am not sure I could have been able to maintain civility had I been in your position. I would probably have given up, and gone to lick my wounds in a quiet corner.


You ar a remarkable example of being fair in the face of childish anh just plain hutful ignorance.
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to corrupt_preist again.

 

[Mike182]

Bravo Corrupt_Priest ! I endorse every word of your last post. I am not sure I could have been able to maintain civility had I been in your position. I would probably have given up, and gone to lick my wounds in a quiet corner.


You ar a remarkable example of being fair in the face of childish anh just plain hutful ignorance.
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to corrupt_preist again.

i was actually quite worried id get a mod post for it

 

[rainbowchristianqld]

Let's start with the positive my satanic friend. We agree, let's soak in our agreement for a while since it is rare.

Homosexuality is wrong via the historical biblical position. To quote you my satanic brother:


We both agree.

Cold-Stone Advantage

Err... Sorry if I've missed something here, but what makes Jocose Satanic?
As far as I was aware, there were many definitions of the "Left Hand Path" and not all of them involve Satan (a few different "Denominations" if you like... sorry if that offends someone). I could be wrong though.

Perhaps I'd missed it, but has Jocose explained his beleifs etc.. in another thread somewhere?

Or did Cold-Stone just "Assume" that Jocose was a Satanist because he isn't a Christian?

I think I'd find it kind of offensive if someone made an "Assumption" like this by JUST looking at the name of my religion/beleif.

There's a lot of different kinds of Christians (which this thread explains without a doubt), and there are some Christians that I would almost be ashamed of being "Spiritually Related" to.

 

[Druidus]

I find it funny that some people advocate listening to the theological advice of a professional wrestler.

 

[Cold-Stone]

Corrupt Priest,

My brother, your comment is extremely emotional and antithetical to logic and this conversation. I have simply stated as I have said countless times, the historical biblical and Judeo-Christian position on the subject. Just as adultery is wrong via the historical biblical and Judeo-Christian position, so is homosexuality wrong according to the historical biblical and Judeo-Christian position.

I have simply laid down the historical and ancient philosophy as to why it is wrong. Thus my insults stem from God's Word (if they are insults?).

Emotional outbursts are not a good sign of confidence in any position, and the homosexual supporters have done just that. Thus I doubt you are confident, though I totally agree that you are corrupt (as your name says). Homosexuality is a corrupt practice. So there should be no problem.

***Draka, lighten up. Since you act like a Feminist there is no way you will admit that you tripped on your "judgemental" accusation towards me. Anyone can go back and read how you commited the act of hypocrisy by condemning my judgement via saying I shouldn't judge. : ) It was classical comedy at it's finest.

And Turk, we are in agreement over one thing atleast. YOu are absolutely not skilled in debating and I would probably add, articulate thinking. : ) But If i can help you express better your pagan thoughts, let me know what I can do for service. My desire is for you as a pagan and the other pagans on here like my feminist sister Draka, to become as consistent as you can in your thinking and worldview.

I thought MIchael was a kinder soul but I suppose even he is nervous around the powerful position of Judeo-Christian thinking which has defeated every other major system out there in the Market Place of Ideas.

Finally, again I say, via the position itself (Judeo-Christian & historical bliblcal scholarship), via THAT system, that system says that homosexuality is absolutely wrong. This is my only emphasis. So really you'll not very opened minded to even see the position and your minds are clouded with mental tears (ad lucanae) and thus you are not isolating the elements of the issues.

Should I expect anything else from Novice pagans and homosexuals?

Respectfully,

Cold-Stone Advantage

 

[Druidus]

Cold-Stone, you are on a fast track to getting banned.

My brother, your comment is extremely emotional and antithetical to logic and this conversation. I have simply stated as I have said countless times, the historical biblical and Judeo-Christian position on the subject. Just as adultery is wrong via the historical biblical and Judeo-Christian position, so is homosexuality wrong according to the historical biblical and Judeo-Christian position.

Give me a single NT scripture that shows homosexuality to be wrong. The Jews might have valid scripture, but Christians don't.

I have simply laid down the historical and ancient philosophy as to why it is wrong. Thus my insults stem from God's Word (if they are insults?).

Personally, I couldn't care less what some people who lived roughly 4000-1000 years ago thought. Why consider the Bible God's word at all? You have absolutely no evidence for for such an assumption.

Emotional outbursts are not a good sign of confidence in any position, and the homosexual supporters have done just that.

Have you ever really listened to Christian/Right Wing radio? That's an emotional outburst.

Thus I doubt you are confident, though I totally agree that you are corrupt (as your name says).

Do not insult a member. Call a belief corrupt, but not a member.

Homosexuality is a corrupt practice. So there should be no problem.

I disagree. Why would non-humans practice homosexuality, if God had no problem with it?

Draka, lighten up. Since you act like a Feminist there is no way you will admit that you tripped on your "judgemental" accusation towards me.

A topic like this is often justifiably tense. Besides this, there is nothing wrong with being a "feminist". All genders/races/ages/sexualities are equal.

And Turk, we are in agreement over one thing atleast. YOu are absolutely not skilled in debating and I would probably add, articulate thinking. : ) But If i can help you express better your pagan thoughts, let me know what I can do for service. My desire is for you as a pagan and the other pagans on here like my feminist sister Draka, to become as consistent as you can in your thinking and worldview.

My dear friend, I am a pagan. And I believe my worldview and thinking are quite consistent. As for you, I have seen much insulting. Such is not the way of the debate. Such is the way of the bully.

I thought MIchael was a kinder soul but I suppose even he is nervous around the powerful position of Judeo-Christian

I believe he is Christian.

Judeo-Christian thinking which has defeated every other major system out there in the Market Place of Ideas.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :biglaugh:

You're joking right? Or is it just arrogance?

I'm done with that post. I just can't handle any more bigotry for a while.

 

[Aqualung]

I might back you up when you actually are defending the historic Judeo-Christian views, but when you resort to such personal attacks as these,

***Draka, lighten up. Since you act like a Feminist there is no way you will admit that you tripped on your "judgemental" accusation towards me. Anyone can go back and read how you commited the act of hypocrisy by condemning my judgement via saying I shouldn't judge. : ) It was classical comedy at it's finest.

And Turk, we are in agreement over one thing atleast. YOu are absolutely not skilled in debating and I would probably add, articulate thinking. : ) But If i can help you express better your pagan thoughts, let me know what I can do for service. My desire is for you as a pagan and the other pagans on here like my feminist sister Draka, to become as consistent as you can in your thinking and worldview.

I thought MIchael was a kinder soul but I suppose even he is nervous around the powerful position of Judeo-Christian thinking which has defeated every other major system out there in the Market Place of Ideas.

you're kind of on your own. You were doing a fairly good job until that post, though. Pity...

 

[Cold-Stone]

Druidus,

I've referenced several verses in my various posts. Shall I repost them again because you are to emotional in remembering or reading them? And the member's name is: "Corrupt Priest." I didn't call him a name that he isn't calling himself. Calm down brother.

Via the system I hold to, it is the way it is. Via the system I adopt (Judeo-Christian thinking) paganism is a type of psycological disorder (see Romans 1:18) and homosexuals are on their way to hell (see Galatians 5:21).

Now of course, my system of thought allows the person to be helped (saved) from the psycological disorder or paganism and homosexuality. That's what the gospel is all about. That's why my system calls the core teaching of it's philosophy "Good News."

Now even the Diagnostical Statistical Manual III (DSM III) before it was revised and before DSM IV came out indicated that homosexuality was a type of disorder. I don't believe they said paganism was, though the author of Romans implied that again in Romans 1:18. But the DSM manual changed there view evidently and immediately dropped the diagnosis for reason I can only speculate about at this time. (pagan pressure via culture).

Now what I have listed are factual accounts based on actual statements. Your offense is NOT at me, but rather at my system of thought (Judeo Christian thinking).

And since you find my system so foolish, you are evidently perrishing quicker then you know. This is of course only my respected opinion via my system of thought (1st Corinthians 1:18).

Respectfully,

Cold-Stone Advantage

 

[Draka]

***Draka, lighten up. Since you act like a Feminist there is no way you will admit that you tripped on your "judgemental" accusation towards me. Anyone can go back and read how you commited the act of hypocrisy by condemning my judgement via saying I shouldn't judge. : ) It was classical comedy at it's finest.

If acting like a "Feminist" means to you that I can speak as frankly as I want and stand up for myself, and am strong and know myself to be equal to men in all aspects...since the genders ARE equal, then fine...call me a Feminist if you want. You will anyway, since you don't know me at all.

And what I said to you in the first place was that you were the most judgemental person I have seen. That was an observation on my part. If you want to call that hypocrisy then that is what you will call it...I really don't care. But on the subject of this thread in question I have never agreed with you and never would.

You keep up the insults to not only me, but others as well and you ARE, as Druidus so rightly put it, on the fast track to being banned. Try to watch your temper and mouth. It would be to your "Advantage".

 

[Druidus]

I've referenced several verses in my various posts. Shall I repost them again because you are to emotional in remembering or reading them? And the member's name is: "Corrupt Priest." I didn't call him a name that he isn't calling himself. Calm down brother.

Are you an actual cold stone?

Cold-Stone, your entire argument is based upon the Bible, which disregards the fact that I care very little what the Bible says about anything.

And you still haven't answered my question of why you believe in the Bible in the first place.

 

[michel]

Cold-Stone,


I must admit to being totally confused by your:-

"I thought MIchael was a kinder soul but I suppose even he is nervous around the powerful position of Judeo-Christian thinking which has defeated every other major system out there in the Market Place of Ideas."

Please explain what you mean ?

 

[Draka]

Oh, and Cold Stone, his name is MICHEL. Please try to remember that.

 

[Green Gaia]

I promised myself I wouldn't post in the Debates anymore, but I can't let this go by unchallanged.

Via the system I hold to, it is the way it is. Via the system I adopt (Judeo-Christian thinking) paganism is a type of psycological disorder (see Romans 1:18)

"Romans 1:18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness"

That says nothing about Paganism, unless you're calling all those who follow a Pagan religion godless and wicked. In which case you'd be bashing another religion, which is against this forums rules. If you wish to bash pagans, take it elsewhere, please. Otherwise, apologize to the Pagans on the forum.

and homosexuals are on their way to hell (see Galatians 5:21).

Galatians 5:21 "and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

I don't see the word homosexual in there... perhaps you need to check your Bible again.

That's why my system calls the core teaching of it's philosophy "Good News."

I've heard the "Good News" and there is indeed good news to be found in the teachings of Jesus, but not the way you're preaching it, brother.

Now even the Diagnostical Statistical Manual III (DSM III) before it was revised and before DSM IV came out indicated that homosexuality was a type of disorder.

The American Psychological Association, The American Medical Association, American Academy of Pediatrics and The American Psychiatric Association have ALL renounced the idea that homosexuality is a disorder or mental illness. You can read their statements on the issue.

Now do you have some medical or psychological proof that homosexuality is a disorder? The last time I check the Bible was not a reference used in mainstream psychological practice.

 

[Mike182]

Corrupt Priest,

My brother, your comment is extremely emotional and antithetical to logic and this conversation. I have simply stated as I have said countless times, the historical biblical and Judeo-Christian position on the subject. Just as adultery is wrong via the historical biblical and Judeo-Christian position, so is homosexuality wrong according to the historical biblical and Judeo-Christian position.

I have simply laid down the historical and ancient philosophy as to why it is wrong. Thus my insults stem from God's Word (if they are insults?).

Emotional outbursts are not a good sign of confidence in any position, and the homosexual supporters have done just that. Thus I doubt you are confident, though I totally agree that you are corrupt (as your name says). Homosexuality is a corrupt practice. So there should be no problem.

***Draka, lighten up. Since you act like a Feminist there is no way you will admit that you tripped on your "judgemental" accusation towards me. Anyone can go back and read how you commited the act of hypocrisy by condemning my judgement via saying I shouldn't judge. : ) It was classical comedy at it's finest.

And Turk, we are in agreement over one thing atleast. YOu are absolutely not skilled in debating and I would probably add, articulate thinking. : ) But If i can help you express better your pagan thoughts, let me know what I can do for service. My desire is for you as a pagan and the other pagans on here like my feminist sister Draka, to become as consistent as you can in your thinking and worldview.

I thought MIchael was a kinder soul but I suppose even he is nervous around the powerful position of Judeo-Christian thinking which has defeated every other major system out there in the Market Place of Ideas.

Finally, again I say, via the position itself (Judeo-Christian & historical bliblcal scholarship), via THAT system, that system says that homosexuality is absolutely wrong. This is my only emphasis. So really you'll not very opened minded to even see the position and your minds are clouded with mental tears (ad lucanae) and thus you are not isolating the elements of the issues.

Should I expect anything else from Novice pagans and homosexuals?

Respectfully,

Cold-Stone Advantage

i know what the traditional judeo christian point of view from modern translations of the bible - but i dont want to hear that - not because i am insecure and petty and weak - but because i want to hear what your oppinion is on the subject (assuming you can make oppinions by yourself)

what do YOU think about homosexuality? i dont want to hear what you believe a book tells us, i dont want to hear what youve been told to believe, i want to know, what do you, as an independant human being, think and feel about the subject of homosexuality - and we can move forwards from there

yes my post contains human emotions, and for a logical reason, IM HUMAN!:banghead3

ok, regaining my calm ............................

what do we know about you, cold-stone? not very much to be honest. i am a very open and honest person even on internet forums, i see no reason to lie or to hide who i am, yet you have not posted much in an introduction, you have jumped straight into judging and bashing gays and pagans (often bahing them together - whats the deal with that) and generally causing upset and serious argument as appose to civil debate and reasond conversation. i respect your posts so far, in that they are well structured and well worded/written, but i get the feeling you try to be over impresive and its just rubbing off as big headedness. you have a very "im better than you because i live a holy and godly lifestyle" attitude towards many members here who do not deserve such treatment. well reality check mate, your not - no one is.





so what do you really think about homosexuality? i really want to know because if you really are just stating what the historical judeo christian poinht of view is, then i am assuming it is your own until you inform us otherwise - and assuming you take this false view as true then i pitty you

C_P

 

[IndigoChild]

what do YOU think about homosexuality? i dont want to hear what you believe a book tells us, i dont want to hear what youve been told to believe, i want to know, what do you, as an independant human being, think and feel about the subject of homosexuality - and we can move forwards from there

I doubt cold-stone has ever had an original thought about anything.

Kat

 

[turk179]

And Turk, we are in agreement over one thing atleast. YOu are absolutely not skilled in debating and I would probably add, articulate thinking. : ) But If i can help you express better your pagan thoughts, let me know what I can do for service. My desire is for you as a pagan and the other pagans on here like my feminist sister Draka, to become as consistent as you can in your thinking and worldview.

:biglaugh: Thanks for the offer Cold-Stone. But right now it is probably best if I don't express my pagan thoughts. I do know one thing and that is the only desire you have is to enjoy insulting as many individuals as you can within your stay here. And I have to admit, that is the only thing you have accomplished here. All of your debating has been rendered pointless ramblings because of your hateful bigoted manner.