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Why have the monkeys stayed as monkeys?

gnostic

The Lost One
Why have the monkeys stayed as monkeys?

Simply, what was destined to be human by G-d that evolved and became human. And what was destined to be monkey by G-d will now never evolve to humans and stay a monkey. Right, please?

As long as the monkeys’ habitats, eg their natural environments remain stable, then monkeys don’t have to evolve much.

Monkeys have evolved. Monkeys that are extant today, didn’t exist 20 million years ago. The ancestors were quite different.

And btw, monkeys and apes belong to very different branches of primates (the taxonomic “order” known as Primates, which you would use the capital ‘P’).

All monkeys belong to suborder of Primates known as Haplorhini, and the infraorder as Simiiformes, and I am sure I am missing few other taxonomic families, subfamilies, genera and species that the monkeys belonged to.

All apes belong to superorder of Primates, known as Hominoidea. The Hominoidea at some point diverged to 2 main branches or families:
  1. Hylobatidae (“lesser apes”)
  2. Hominidae (“greater apes”)
The extant genera and species that exist today in the Hylobatidae family are the gibbons, lars. While in the Hominoidea family, are the orangutans, bonobos, gorillas, chimpanzees and the only surviving Homo species, the Homo sapiens.

Other Homo species have gone extinct.

All Homo species, both extinct and extant, are “apes” (ie Hominoidea), or more specifically “great apes” (ie Hominidae).

Apes and monkeys don’t belong in the same suborders of the order Primates, so there are no ways for monkeys to evolve into humans.

I am not a biologist, let alone a paleontologist, but even I can tell that monkeys couldn’t possibly evolved into humans, some millions of years in the future, because natural selection doesn’t repeat evolution changes.
 
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Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Why have the monkeys stayed as monkeys?

Simply, what was destined to be human by G-d that evolved and became human. And what was destined to be monkey by G-d will now never evolve to humans and stay a monkey. Right, please?

Regards
_____________
#25
Some monkeys have stayed as monkeys. Some moved on.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
As long as the monkeys’ habitats, eg their natural environments remain stable, then monkeys don’t have to evolve much.

Monkeys have evolved. Monkeys that are extant today, didn’t exist 20 million years ago. The ancestors were quite different.

And btw, monkeys and apes belong to very different branches of primates (the taxonomic “order” known as Primates, which you would use the capital ‘P’).

All monkeys belong to suborder of Primates known as Haplorhini, and the infraorder as Simiiformes, and I am sure I am missing few other taxonomic families, subfamilies, genera and species that the monkeys belonged to.

All apes belong to superorder of Primates, known as Hominoidea. The Hominoidea at some point diverged to 2 main branches or families:
  1. Hylobatidae (“lesser apes”)
  2. Hominidae (“greater apes”)
The extant genera and species that exist today in the Hylobatidae family are the gibbons, lars. While in the Hominoidea family, are the orangutans, bonobos, gorillas, chimpanzees and the only surviving Homo species, the Homo sapiens.

Other Homo species have gone extinct.

All Homo species, both extinct and extant, are “apes” (ie Hominoidea), or more specifically “great apes” (ie Hominidae).

Apes and monkeys don’t belong in the same suborders of the order Primates, so there are no ways for monkeys to evolve into humans.

I am not a biologist, let alone a paleontologist, but even I can tell that monkeys couldn’t possibly evolved into humans, some millions of years in the future, because natural selection doesn’t repeat evolution changes.

So,Does one agree that humans might have common ancestors with apes but humans did not evolve from the monkeys?

Regards
 

gnostic

The Lost One
So,Does one agree that humans might have common ancestors with apes but humans did not evolve from the monkeys?
Monkey is a vague term, and so are ape, but in biology, they used as umbrella labels or classifications for specific Primates. Then there is another branch of primates, with another umbrella taxonomic classification only bear vague resemblance to the monkeys: the lemurs.

What you need to understand in evolutionary biology and taxonomic classification, is that no modern extant species evolved into another species of a different genera.

To give you an an example. Let’s focus on the humans and chimpanzees link.

Bear in mind, I am not a biologist, nor am I paleontologist, so if you want answers from more complicated questions, then you have to ask someone else. My knowledge in biology ended in Year 9 high school science, that did teach evolution at all. They taught basic evolution in Year 10 biology, some more advanced stuff in years 11 and 12. Because I chose to focus on maths and physics after Year 9, much of what I learned about biology and evolution, come from the last 16-17 years of my life, in my own times.

So if you want better answers than what I am giving you ask someone with more experiences in biology than me, because I am certainly no expert.

Of all the primates families, subfamilies, genera and species, to the human genus - Homo - chimpanzees are the closest relative to the humans than to the gorillas.

But that doesn’t mean chimpanzees can give birth to humans. That’s not way evolution works, and people, especially creationists make this common errors, of which isn’t evolution.

Creationists who think evolution teach that chimpanzees can directly give birth to Homo sapiens or any other Homo sapiens, only demonstrate their lack of education. Ignorance isn’t a bad thing, if he or she can learn from their mistakes, but they become “stupid”, when they cannot learn from their mistakes and keep repeating the ignorance over and over again.

Chimpanzees belong to a grouping of genus called Pan. There are some species from Pan, other than chimpanzees, that are now extinct. The exact taxonomic species name for extant chimpanzees is Pan troglodytes “common chimpanzees”, and there are number of subspecies of these P troglodytes.

Now I don’t know what species than modern chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) evolved from (this is where you might ask someone else), but it is most definitely primitive species. The older the species, the less characteristics it share with modern chimpanzees.

It is the same with Homo sapiens, that there are cladistically a number of different older and extinct Homo species that are shared some characteristics of our current anatomy. We (Homo sapiens) evolved from species known as the Homo heidelbergensis, and H heidelbergensis evolved from one of older Homo erectus, and so on.

The further back in time we look in the fossil records, the less Homo sapiens they look, such as the Homo habilis. The Homo habilis looked a lot less modern human like.

Go back even further, then you have Australopithecus, and further still, Ardipithecus, each one with fewer and fewer characteristics.

At some point, you will reach species just before divergence of the human and chimpanzees, known as Sahelanthropus tchadensis, some 7 million years ago. They have some Homo-like features and some Pan-like features, and the possible candidate of last common ancestor before the split between Homo and Pan.

You cannot have one species of one genus changing into another species of completely different genus. But you can seek the last common ancestors between the two genera, and hopefully find the missing link between the two genera and species, BUT that missing link species are neither human, nor chimpanzees.

Do you understand what I am saying in all this? If no, then I would suggest you ask someone.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Creationists who think evolution teach that chimpanzees can directly give birth to Homo sapiens or any other Homo sapiens, only demonstrate their lack of education. Ignorance isn’t a bad thing, if he or she can learn from their mistakes, but they become “stupid”, when they cannot learn from their mistakes and keep repeating the ignorance over and over again.
if the chimp didn't do it.....then God did

but hey....Someone had to be first born AS human
and the mother was something …...less

such is evolution
the offspring would NOT be the same as the parent

so similar....but so different
 

gnostic

The Lost One
f the chimp didn't do it.....then God did

but hey....Someone had to be first born AS human
and the mother was something …...less
According to the Bible?

Well, that’s...particularly the part of the creation in Genesis 1 & 2...a myth, not history, and certainly not base any scientific knowledge.

That you believe in Genesis creation...well, good for you, but it is merely accepted by “faith” and not as scientific evidence or historical evidence.

Acceptance through faith is merely akin to personal and unsubstantiated opinion.

Turning dust into man is a myth, based on superstition and complete ignorance. And serpent cannot talk; talking snake or donkey can only exist in myth, fable, fairytale, or in modern fiction such as novels, children books or tv and movies.

The Genesis creation is no more realistic and reliable than that from Sumerian/Babylonian creation myths (which is what Genesis largely based on), from Egyptian creation myths or from Greek creation myths.
 

Astrophile

Active Member
but hey....Someone had to be first born AS human
and the mother was something …...less

such is evolution
the offspring would NOT be the same as the parent

This is like saying that someone had to be the first born as a speaker of French and their mother was something .... less, that the offspring would NOT speak the same language as the parent. Ultimately, on short enough time-scales, the change from one species to another or from one language to another becomes a gradual rather than an abrupt transition.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
This is like saying that someone had to be the first born as a speaker of French and their mother was something .... less, that the offspring would NOT speak the same language as the parent. Ultimately, on short enough time-scales, the change from one species to another or from one language to another becomes a gradual rather than an abrupt transition.
poor analogy

language is cognitive and taught
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Why have the monkeys stayed as monkeys?

Simply, what was destined to be human by G-d that evolved and became human. And what was destined to be monkey by G-d will now never evolve to humans and stay a monkey. Right, please?

Regards
_____________
#25

Why did The Monkeys stay The Monkeys? Because they didn’t want to be The Beatles.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Why have the monkeys stayed as monkeys?

Simply, what was destined to be human by G-d that evolved and became human. And what was destined to be monkey by G-d will now never evolve to humans and stay a monkey. Right, please?

Regards
_____________
#25

If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans???
You are presupposing destiny and a god.
 

Astrophile

Active Member
poor analogy

language is cognitive and taught

It isn't that poor an analogy. In fact, we probably learn to use language largely by imitating our parents and other adults rather than by formal teaching. However, the essential point that I am trying to make is that evolutionary changes, from one species to another and from one language to another, are gradual and continuous, that one cannot draw a sharp boundary either between one species and its descendant, or between one language and its descendant.

We inherit our genes from our parents, and from more distant ancestors, and in the same way, we inherit our language from our parents, other adults, and older siblings. Both genetic inheritance and linguistic inheritance are subject to small changes from one generation to the next, and the accumulation of these small changes over many generations amounts to large changes, but there is no point in the evolution of a species or of a language where one can say that this individual is the first Australopithecus afarensis or the first speaker of Latin.
 

Astrophile

Active Member
nope.....

my blood is mostly Spanish

not a clue las parablas

You are an exception to a general rule; most of us learn our language from our parents. What language did your parents speak?

Anyway, this has no bearing on the essential point, that linguistic and genetic change happens by small, indeed almost imperceptible, variations from one generation to the next, and that it is only over many generations that these small variations accumulate to produce large changes. As a result, one cannot say that any individual is the first member of a species, or is the first person to speak a language. Linguists have words, such as 'dialect', 'pidgin' and 'creole', for varieties of speech that are undergoing the transition to a separate language, and it is unfortunate that biologists do not have analogous words for transitional forms between species of living things.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
You are an exception to a general rule; most of us learn our language from our parents. What language did your parents speak?

Anyway, this has no bearing on the essential point, that linguistic and genetic change happens by small, indeed almost imperceptible, variations from one generation to the next, and that it is only over many generations that these small variations accumulate to produce large changes. As a result, one cannot say that any individual is the first member of a species, or is the first person to speak a language. Linguists have words, such as 'dialect', 'pidgin' and 'creole', for varieties of speech that are undergoing the transition to a separate language, and it is unfortunate that biologists do not have analogous words for transitional forms between species of living things.
someone had to be first...to walk with God

Man was a species on Day Six
male and female...
no names
no garden
no law
no tree of knowledge to worry about
one directive.....go forth and multiply and dominate all things

but Man held to a snatch and grab attitude
correction was needed
or the spirit of Man would never gel
and death would overtake the creature
no spiritual result

so...Chapter Two
Adam is a chosen son of God......the first to walk with God

his body was altered...….so too his mind
then he was cloned
the clone was genetically altered to be female

Adam was given his twin sister for a bride

Day Six.....evolution
Chapter Two......manipulation

and we are no longer.....'apes'
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
btw.....that snatch and grab attitude....
still with us

in some ways.....we are still monkeys
 
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