"Why does God allow wickedness?"

[Milton Platt]

Have you never heard, "on the seventh day God rested'? Genesis 2:2

Certainly, and have heard several interpretations of the word day and the word rest from theists trying to justify their particular viewpoint. Since a day is described as an evening and a morning, I would have to think the writer originall meant a normal day. That ia how Jews describe a day even now....from sundown to sunset. I do not think a Bronze Age desert tribe would use the word day to denote thousands much less billions of years. The only passage I have heard used to justify something besides literal days is the one where it states that to god a thousand years is as a day. I do not accept that, either, because it is not in any way referencing the supposed creation of the earth and life.

But even if allowed, it still does not correspond to what we know about the age of the universe, the age of the earth, or the way species diversify.

If that is the clearest the god can communicate, he has serious shortcommings. As Woody Allen said," If there is a god, the best I can say about him is that he is an underachiever".

 

[savagewind]

Certainly, and have heard several interpretations of the word day and the word rest from theists trying to justify their particular viewpoint. Since a day is described as an evening and a morning, I would have to think the writer originall meant a normal day. That ia how Jews describe a day even now....from sundown to sunset. I do not think a Bronze Age desert tribe would use the word day to denote thousands much less billions of years. The only passage I have heard used to justify something besides literal days is the one where it states that to god a thousand years is as a day. I do not accept that, either, because it is not in any way referencing the supposed creation of the earth and life.

But even if allowed, it still does not correspond to what we know about the age of the universe, the age of the earth, or the way species diversify.

If that is the clearest the god can communicate, he has serious shortcommings. As Woody Allen said," If there is a god, the best I can say about him is that he is an underachiever".

But I believe they HEARD the words. They do not think them up. I pair the Bronze Age desert tribe's words with what else I know about what is written of day and rest. Hebrews chapter 4. I think day means the time something is started until the time it is finished. The Lord promises to be with a believer. How is that possible if God is at rest? We enter God's rest. God does not join our work day imho. If you look closer at some God beliefs it seems God works for them. I think that it wrong.

 

[Milton Platt]

But I believe they HEARD the words. They do not think them up. I pair the Bronze Age desert tribe's words with what else I know about what is written of day and rest. Hebrews chapter 4. I think day means the time something is started until the time it is finished. The Lord promises to be with a believer. How is that possible if God is at rest? We enter God's rest. God does not join our work day imho. If you look closer at some God beliefs it seems God works for them. I think that it wrong.

But you have no evidence to support the belief. It is what you want to believe. No matter, whether they heard the words before writing them down or the words were found inscribed on a giant cheeseburger that fell from the sky, that does not make them mean anything other than an actual day. (Actually, if I were a god, I think I would go with the cheeseburger concept LOL)
As to your statement about "god's rest", you cannot enter someone else's rest.....you may rest along with them, but that is you resting. It is not a part of their rest. So I do not know what you are meaning.

I can gather your religious beliefs are "outside the box" but you haven't defined them yet....so I cannot fathom what it is you really believe.

 

[savagewind]

But you have no evidence to support the belief. It is what you want to believe. No matter, whether they heard the words before writing them down or the words were found inscribed on a giant cheeseburger that fell from the sky, that does not make them mean anything other than an actual day. (Actually, if I were a god, I think I would go with the cheeseburger concept LOL)
As to your statement about "god's rest", you cannot enter someone else's rest.....you may rest along with them, but that is you resting. It is not a part of their rest. So I do not know what you are meaning.

I can gather your religious beliefs are "outside the box" but you haven't defined them yet....so I cannot fathom what it is you really believe.

Wait a minute! You think those men believed God made the animals in ONE DAY? And that he brought them to Adam to name them in ONE DAY? No!

 

[savagewind]

But you have no evidence to support the belief.

My evidence is there is something instead of nothing. "I think, therefore I AM".

It is what you want to believe.

I can't disagree with that.

No matter, whether they heard the words before writing them down or the words were found inscribed on a giant cheeseburger that fell from the sky, that does not make them mean anything other than an actual day. (Actually, if I were a god, I think I would go with the cheeseburger concept LOL)

But the seventh day is in the same essay as the other days so it can't possibly be a human day.

As to your statement about "god's rest", you cannot enter someone else's rest.....

I can enter someone's sleep. It's dreaming.

you may rest along with them, but that is you resting. It is not a part of their rest. So I do not know what you are meaning.

Someone called it "fellow workers" and that "God keeps working". I know that when I have a problem and I sleep on it I wake up knowing the answer.

I can gather your religious beliefs are "outside the box"

Thank you for noticing.

but you haven't defined them yet....so I cannot fathom what it is you really believe.

That might be a good thing.

 

[Homeby5]

Are there reasons why God, for the most part, has stayed out of human affairs?

Yes. This link may answer some questions, I certainly learned from it:

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989277#h=8:0-22:384

Any further questions, I'll try to answer them.

Here is another article, I learned from:

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102002067

Well...to answer you have to go back to the origin of evil into this world. Adam sinned and according to Romans 5 and 6 this sin is being passed down through every human being. Remember also that God knew that his Son would have to die for our sin before He even created the world (I Peter 1:20). So He allows evil in order to prove His love and grace bestowed upon us.
OTOH, God chooses all the time to stamp out evil on an individual basis. He intervenes countless times to prevent evil when answering certain prayers.
Finally, Satan has been allowed to rule this world until Christ returns and re-establishes His Kingdom (Eph 2:2, John 12:31, etc..)

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Well...to answer you have to go back to the origin of evil into this world. Adam sinned and according to Romans 5 and 6 this sin is being passed down through every human being. Remember also that God knew that his Son would have to die for our sin before He even created the world (I Peter 1:20). So He allows evil in order to prove His love and grace bestowed upon us.
OTOH, God chooses all the time to stamp out evil on an individual basis. He intervenes countless times to prevent evil when answering certain prayers.
Finally, Satan has been allowed to rule this world until Christ returns and re-establishes His Kingdom (Eph 2:2, John 12:31, etc..)

The notion of original sin is barbaric and monstrously cruel. An all-powerful god wouldn't have needed to rely on any process to relieve us of our sinful nature. He could have done it with a wave of his hand - that he didn't and intends to punish us with infinite torment for the finite 'crime' of not believing in Jesus tells us much.

OTOH, God chooses all the time to stamp out evil on an individual basis. He intervenes countless times to prevent evil when answering certain prayers.

Can you give us any examples where what occurs is a result of prayer and attributable to nothing other than God?

 

[jeager106]

The notion of original sin is barbaric and monstrously cruel. An all-powerful god wouldn't have needed to rely on any process to relieve us of our sinful nature. He could have done it with a wave of his hand - that he didn't and intends to punish us with infinite torment for the finite 'crime' of not believing in Jesus tells us much.
Can you give us any examples where what occurs is a result of prayer and attributable to nothing other than God?

"He could have done "it" with a wave of his hand."
Really????????????????

Don't you "get it"?
God does not want robots to follow his every command with blind loyalty.
Thus God let Satan "test" Adam and Eve with a CHOICE.
Get that?
Do you want people to like you, your kids to follow you, your spouse to be loving an
loyal because they can choose NO OTHER way?
Think about that.
If you can.

 

[Matthew Jordan]

"of the tree knowledge of good and evil,do not eat "
the distinction of one can be made only by relation to the other.

In a world absent of the night. Nobody has ever heard of the day; duality.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

"He could have done "it" with a wave of his hand."
Really????????????????

Yes. Really. The Bible describes God once as omnipotent, multiple times as 'almighty'.

Revelation 19:6 - And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, and the voice of many waters, and the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigneth.

If you search the word 'almighty' on Bible Gateway then you get 57 hits (in the KJV). I'd list them but I think that would be belabouring the point. If you want me to though, then I will.

Presuming that God is omnipotent, he could remove our inherently sinful nature whenever he wanted.

Don't you "get it"?
God does not want robots to follow his every command with blind loyalty.

But that's exactly what he wants. Otherwise why are non-believers consigned to Hell for eternity for the 'crime' of not believing in Him? Why are believers to wile away their eternity in Heaven praising God? Seems like blind loyalty to me.

Thus God let Satan "test" Adam and Eve with a CHOICE.
Get that?

What choice? That requires conscious thought which Adam & Eve were incapable of producing - considering they didn't know right from wrong until after they had 'disobeyed'. Why else was the Tree placed there if not for the to eat from it? This "test" reeks of entrapment.

Do you want people to like you, your kids to follow you, your spouse to be loving an
loyal because they can choose NO OTHER way?

I want those things because I will hopefully have earned them, because I hopefully inspire them and because these people genuinely want to treat me that way - not for any ulterior motive. Like fear of eternal torture for not obeying me or respecting me.

 

[savagewind]

Yes. Really. The Bible describes God once as omnipotent, multiple times as 'almighty'.

Revelation 19:6 - And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, and the voice of many waters, and the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigneth.

If you search the word 'almighty' on Bible Gateway then you get 57 hits (in the KJV). I'd list them but I think that would be belabouring the point. If you want me to though, then I will.

Presuming that God is omnipotent, he could remove our inherently sinful nature whenever he wanted.




But that's exactly what he wants. Otherwise why are non-believers consigned to Hell for eternity for the 'crime' of not believing in Him? Why are believers to wile away their eternity in Heaven praising God? Seems like blind loyalty to me.




What choice? That requires conscious thought which Adam & Eve were incapable of producing - considering they didn't know right from wrong until after they had 'disobeyed'. Why else was the Tree placed there if not for the to eat from it? This "test" reeks of entrapment.




I want those things because I will hopefully have earned them, because I hopefully inspire them and because these people genuinely want to treat me that way - not for any ulterior motive. Like fear of eternal torture for not obeying me or respecting me.

You seem to say you know what the Bible word "almighty" means. How do you know?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

You seem to say you know what the Bible word "almighty" means. How do you know?

Aside from the fact I went to Sunday school and we were taught, among other things, that almighty means God can do anything? Almighty is a contraction of all-mighty. Further, synonyms for almighty include words like omnipotent, all-powerful etc.

 

[savagewind]

Aside from the fact I went to Sunday school and we were taught, among other things, that almighty means God can do anything? Almighty is a contraction of all-mighty. Further, synonyms for almighty include words like omnipotent, all-powerful etc.

I think what you learned is wrong. Not that it isn't so, but that the Bible never says that.

 

[savagewind]

@A Greased Scotsman http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7706a.htm
Notice that the word for describing God is related to the word for land.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I think what you learned is wrong.

Why? What do you think 'almighty' means?

Not that it isn't so, but that the Bible never says that.

The Bible does call him omnipotent though - which means all-powerful.

@A Greased Scotsman http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7706a.htm
Notice that the word for describing God is related to the word for land.

I'll confess I don't understand why you think the word "saday" is even relevant here.

Further, a book written and compiled over 1500 years ago in a language unrelated to English isn't going to tell us how words evolve. It may be that 'almighty' didn't mean 'all-powerful' once upon a time, but that's what people take it to mean now.

 

[savagewind]

The Bible does call him omnipotent though - which means all-powerful.

What scripture /s have you that I can look up?

I'll confess I don't understand why you think the word "saday" is even relevant here.

Go here if you can. http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7706.htm http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7706a.htm
hover your mouse over Strong's 7706. What does it say? Click it and it says, "Almighty". See that it is written Shadday. Next to that word is a little blue arrow. Click it forward.

Further, a book written and compiled over 1500 years ago in a language unrelated to English isn't going to tell us how words evolve. It may be that 'almighty' didn't mean 'all-powerful' once upon a time, but that's what people take it to mean now.

That is correct.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

What scripture /s have you that I can look up?

I quoted Revelation 19:6 in one of my previous posts. It's from the KJV translation. I used that because that's what I grew up with.

Go here if you can. http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7706.htm http://biblehub.com/hebrew/7706a.htm
hover your mouse over Strong's 7706. What does it say? Click it and it says, "Almighty". See that it is written Shadday. Next to that word is a little blue arrow. Click it forward.

Thanks for clearing that up - I was confused there. The only thing I can say to counter that is that just because those words sound or are spelt similarly doesn't mean they're etymologically linked. As in they don't necessarily have a common or shared usage. I'm probably not using 'etymologically' correctly there. Like 'too', 'two', and 'to' in English. They all sound the same, they're spelled very similarly - but they all have different meanings and uses.

 

[Homeby5]

The notion of original sin is barbaric and monstrously cruel. An all-powerful god wouldn't have needed to rely on any process to relieve us of our sinful nature. He could have done it with a wave of his hand - that he didn't and intends to punish us with infinite torment for the finite 'crime' of not believing in Jesus tells us much.




Can you give us any examples where what occurs is a result of prayer and attributable to nothing other than God?

I replied with an answer but for some reason my reply was deleted?????? It was not offensive and on subject. Is this a heavy handed moderated forum? I'm new here and just wonderin'

 

[popsthebuilder]

I dont understand why people need to worship a creator. I do agree that children would be healthy minded if they mirror their parents as long as parents are given children healthy values and not ones that limit the child of seeing there is more to reality outside of christian values.

The worshipping of God and more specifically sincere prayer is for us, not God. It is a means to keep what is right fresh in mind and will.

As far as the op is concerned; it is for our sake as well. The freedom, shame, atrocity, manipulation, greed; it is all of man, yet by God's as he imparted us with potential and freedom. It is a lesson that we might, over time, through experience, learn for ourselves what is right and good for existence and for its sake by God's will.

Peace

 

[Homeby5]

Carlita said: ↑
I dont understand why people need to worship a creator. I do agree that children would be healthy minded if they mirror their parents as long as parents are given children healthy values and not ones that limit the child of seeing there is more to reality outside of christian values.

Well, the need we have to worship a creator is because of the gift that creator bestowed upon us. These gifts are life itself, forgiveness of sins, giving us eternal life with Him, etc...It's an act of gratefulness.
It's also an act of reverence. We acknowledge that we are lowly sinners and need to worship an almighty Creator.
Finally, can you please list these "healthy values" that are outside the realm of Christian values? Thanks