Why do some Christians reject Baptism saves?

[Wildswanderer]

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Wildswanderer where does the scriptures say Baptism does NOT effect salvation either way???
1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

Baptism is IMMERSION into the Body of Jesus.. IF you are baptized you can enter the Kingdom!

Philip taught the Eunuch the Importance of Baptism! OTHERWISE.....
Wildswanderer otherwise why was the Eunuch so excited to find water?!
Acts 8:36
As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”

Colossians 2:12
having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

CAN'T be buried with Jesus if first not IMMERSED into Jesus! Baptism is IMMERSION into the Holy Body of Jesus!

Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Baptism saves..
Luke 3:7
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

metis Christians have ALWAYS taught "Baptism Saves"! Ask Wildswanderer to show Christian teaching it does NOT save! He will have to look to the De=formation and the Protestors that reject Jesus to find any on the topic!
Justin Martyr
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).

Paul did not make water baptism a part of his gospel message and went so far as to say that Christ did not send him to baptize but only to spread the gospel message.
How could this be if baptism is that gospel?

If baptism were necessary for salvation then how do you deal with the paralytic man...Matt 9:2, the penitent woman Luke 7:37-50, the tax collector Luke18:13-14, and the thief on the cross Luke 23:39-43?

Scripture has numerous texts that say forgiveness of sins is by faith alone... John1:12; John3:16; John3:36; John6:47; Romans 10:9; Eph1:13; Eph2:8-9 to list just a few.

The weight of scripture points to faith being the only requirement for salvation. If you still insist that baptism is a requirement then how do you account for the experience of the gentiles in Act 10:44-48?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Go make disciples of all nations BAPTIZING"!

This doesn't say baptism saves. Look at the order.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Martin Luther was treated as a Pagan!

Which is a terrible misjudgment, as he was only trying to bring the church back to the truth they had lost.

 

[Wildswanderer]

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Yes, many Catholic doctrines that I have pointed out contradict scripture cause people to follow falsehoods. You have not addressed these false doctrines.

 

[Dogknox20]

Did the Spirit guide the Catholics to cover up the epidemic of child abuse in the church?

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You are not being fair.... There are Protestant pastors charged with the same crimes!
Who said Catholics are NOT sinners... Clearly you don't need Jesus.. Jesus came to save the sinner! The Catholic Church is full to the rafters with 1.2 Billion sinners!

Priests are sinners the Pope is a sinner all men are sinners! IF....

Wildswanderer if you go back in history you will clearly see it was the One Holy Catholic Church that started the Hospitals the Universities the Orphanages, she had scientist, philosophers and Doctors educated to help society; She alone stood up for the poor and the downtrodden and she still does to this day!
The Catholic Church was the Welfare for the needy; the poor did not go to the government for help but to the Church! And today The Catholic Church fights for the Unborn, and the needy etc!

 

[metis]

Which is a terrible misjudgment, as he was only trying to bring the church back to the truth they had lost.

Maybe read a good biography on Luther as there's so much more to that story.

BTW, I was brought up in a Lutheran church and even had thoughts about going into the ministry, but some things really bothered me, so I decided against the ministry and several years later left the church.

 

[metis]

Paul did not make water baptism a part of his gospel message and went so far as to say that Christ did not send him to baptize but only to spread the gospel message.
How could this be if baptism is that gospel?

If baptism were necessary for salvation then how do you deal with the paralytic man...Matt 9:2, the penitent woman Luke 7:37-50, the tax collector Luke18:13-14, and the thief on the cross Luke 23:39-43?

Scripture has numerous texts that say forgiveness of sins is by faith alone... John1:12; John3:16; John3:36; John6:47; Romans 10:9; Eph1:13; Eph2:8-9 to list just a few.

The weight of scripture points to faith being the only requirement for salvation. If you still insist that baptism is a requirement then how do you account for the experience of the gentiles in Act 10:44-48?

Mark 16[16] He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

However, imo, that's likely hyperbole.

 

[Dogknox20]

Which is a terrible misjudgment, as he was only trying to bring the church back to the truth they had lost.

Right you are... Martin Luther was trying to make change to how "He Saw It"! To make his change he HAD TO reject the scriptures! The de-Formation started by his CHANGE! DON"T...

Wildswanderer don't you think Satan had his hand in the teaching of Martin Luther?! The Anti-Christ is anti-Christian Martin Luther's False Teaching divided and caused Chaos! Still to this day the Protestant churches continue to divide and fragment believing "Scriptures are all man needs"!

The teaching of "Scriptures ALONE" forces each man to become a scripture scholar! You can't believe your pastor because if you do then Scriptures for you are NOT then ALONE! It then becomes "Scriptures PLUS the teaching of your church"! Today there are over thirty-five thousand Protestant denomination all claim to have the ONLY TRUTH but not even two of these thousands believe the same things.. ALL BECAUSE they do NOT have an authority to teach Truth! The ONLY Authority is the One Church Jesus established 2000 years ago! The ONLY Church he sent the Holy Spirit to guide her into ALL TRUTH!
The Only Church the Holy Spirit started with and remains with- FOREVER!

Listen to the Church.. Don't reject her Authority- for her book: Her bible!
Wildswanderer Books do NOT teach.. Teaches teach they use books but NOT only Books they are useful but NOT ALONE USED!

 

[Dogknox20]

Yes, many Catholic doctrines that I have pointed out contradict scripture cause people to follow falsehoods. You have not addressed these false doctrines.

False Doctrines are Protestant doctrines!

Jesus established a CHURCH she is GUIDED by God the Holy Spirit into ALL Truth.. FOREVER!

You cannot believe in ONLY SCriptures and reject this!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

"Listen to the Church" was written in Martin Luther bible as it is still written in yours! You are a PAGAN.. a person OUTSIDE of God' family!... NO?! Why NOT?!

Wildswanderer Jesus built his Church ON ROCK not on sand! QUESTION is Jesus a FOOL!? NO! Prove it!
Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

 

[Wildswanderer]

.
You are not being fair.... There are Protestant pastors charged with the same crimes!
Who said Catholics are NOT sinners... Clearly you don't need Jesus.. Jesus came to save the sinner! The Catholic Church is full to the rafters with 1.2 Billion sinners!

Priests are sinners the Pope is a sinner all men are sinners! IF....

Wildswanderer if you go back in history you will clearly see it was the One Holy Catholic Church that started the Hospitals the Universities the Orphanages, she had scientist, philosophers and Doctors educated to help society; She alone stood up for the poor and the downtrodden and she still does to this day!
The Catholic Church was the Welfare for the needy; the poor did not go to the government for help but to the Church! And today The Catholic Church fights for the Unborn, and the needy etc!

I never said that the church doesn't do anything good. But if you claim that the Spirit guides your church, you better own the exceptions.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Wildswanderer don't you think Satan had his hand in the teaching of Martin Luther?!

No...I think he had a hand in the corruption that was rampant in the Catholic church of that time. Selling indulgences to poor people so they would think that they could buy their loved one into heaven is pure evil.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The teaching of "Scriptures ALONE" forces each man to become a scripture scholar!

As we should be! The Bible isn't just for priests, it's for everyone.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Today there are over thirty-five thousand Protestant denomination all claim to have the ONLY TRUTH

No, they don't all claim to have a corner on truth. We acknowledge that no one denomination has everything correct.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Books do NOT teach.. Teaches teach they use books but NOT only Books they are useful but NOT ALONE USED!

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work."

"And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

 

[Wildswanderer]

False Doctrines are Protestant doctrines!

Jesus established a CHURCH she is GUIDED by God the Holy Spirit into ALL Truth.. FOREVER!

You cannot believe in ONLY SCriptures and reject this!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

"Listen to the Church" was written in Martin Luther bible as it is still written in yours! You are a PAGAN.. a person OUTSIDE of God' family!... NO?! Why NOT?!

Wildswanderer Jesus built his Church ON ROCK not on sand! QUESTION is Jesus a FOOL!? NO! Prove it!
Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

You have not addressed the Catholic false doctrines. You are preaching to yourself. Why don't you compare what your church teaches with what scripture actually says,?

 

[Wildswanderer]

False Doctrines are Protestant doctrines!

Jesus established a CHURCH she is GUIDED by God the Holy Spirit into ALL Truth.. FOREVER!

You cannot believe in ONLY SCriptures and reject this!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

"Listen to the Church" was written in Martin Luther bible as it is still written in yours! You are a PAGAN.. a person OUTSIDE of God' family!... NO?! Why NOT?!

Wildswanderer Jesus built his Church ON ROCK not on sand! QUESTION is Jesus a FOOL!? NO! Prove it!
Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

False Doctrines are Protestant doctrines!

Jesus established a CHURCH she is GUIDED by God the Holy Spirit into ALL Truth.. FOREVER!

You cannot believe in ONLY SCriptures and reject this!
1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

"Listen to the Church" was written in Martin Luther bible as it is still written in yours! You are a PAGAN.. a person OUTSIDE of God' family!... NO?! Why NOT?!

Wildswanderer Jesus built his Church ON ROCK not on sand! QUESTION is Jesus a FOOL!? NO! Prove it!
Matthew 7:26
But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

Thousands of baptisms now invalid after pastor performed them for decades using one wrong word

Seriously? Is baptism a formula? Sad that people rely on ritual to save them!

 

[Dogknox20]

Paul did not make water baptism a part of his gospel message and went so far as to say that Christ did not send him to baptize but only to spread the gospel message.
How could this be if baptism is that gospel?

If baptism were necessary for salvation then how do you deal with the paralytic man...Matt 9:2, the penitent woman Luke 7:37-50, the tax collector Luke18:13-14, and the thief on the cross Luke 23:39-43?

Scripture has numerous texts that say forgiveness of sins is by faith alone... John1:12; John3:16; John3:36; John6:47; Romans 10:9; Eph1:13; Eph2:8-9 to list just a few.

The weight of scripture points to faith being the only requirement for salvation. If you still insist that baptism is a requirement then how do you account for the experience of the gentiles in Act 10:44-48?

Wildswanderer Baptism is necessary... Jesus commissioned his Church to Baptize for the forgiveness of sins to make disciples of all nations!

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
You NEED to drink it for the forgiveness of sins!

Mark 1:4
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 3:3
He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 24:47
and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing

Wildswanderer do you see it? To ALL Nations sins are forgiven "BAPTIZING"!

Disciples are MADE by Baptism!

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
You NEED to drink it for the forgiveness of sins!

The Christians in the early Church Baptized to be saved! Christians in the early Church DRANK the blood of Jesus to be saved!
Wildswanderer Paul "DRANK the Blood to be saved"!
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

 

[Dogknox20]

This doesn't say baptism saves. Look at the order.

Wildswanderer Jesus is the BROTHER of the disciple... If Jesus is your BROTHER then you are saved!

Make DISCIPLES BAPTIZING! Baptism makes disciples of all nations!
Jesus commissioned his CHURCH... Christians every one; To Make disciples BAPTIZING!
Christians have always ADDED people to God' Holy Family by baptizing them! 3000...

Wildswanderer 3000 were ADDED to Jesus' Holy Body by baptism the very first day of Pentecost!
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

The Holy Spirit ARRIVED on Pentecost ..To guide into ALL TRUTH!
The Holy Spirit remains FOREVER....to this day with the ONLY Church Jesus established on ROCK before he left earth!
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

Wildswanderer The Holy Spirit STARTED with the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church established on ROCK & he remains to this day with the Holy Catholic Body of Christ! He never left! The Holy Spirit remains FOREVER!
To say the Holy Spirit guided the ONLY Church Jesus established into error is to REJECT GOD! You call Jesus a liar by rejecting his words!

 

[Dogknox20]

Yes, many Catholic doctrines that I have pointed out contradict scripture cause people to follow falsehoods. You have not addressed these false doctrines.

Wildswanderer so you are an expert!?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Wildswanderer Baptism is necessary... Jesus commissioned his Church to Baptize for the forgiveness of sins to make disciples of all nations!

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
You NEED to drink it for the forgiveness of sins!

Mark 1:4
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 3:3
He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 24:47
and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing

Wildswanderer do you see it? To ALL Nations sins are forgiven "BAPTIZING"!

Disciples are MADE by Baptism!

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:7
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
You NEED to drink it for the forgiveness of sins!

The Christians in the early Church Baptized to be saved! Christians in the early Church DRANK the blood of Jesus to be saved!
Wildswanderer Paul "DRANK the Blood to be saved"!
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

Paul doesn't say that communion saves anyone either. Where do you get that from this verse? What this verse says is to make sure you examine yourself for unconfessed sin before partaking of the Lord's supper.
It has nothing to do with drinking actual blood, either.
You quote verses saying repentance is what we do for the forgiveness of sins and claim they are about the water. Weird.
BTW, John's baptism was not the same as believer's baptism.
You need to learn your Bible a little better.