Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
What part of this do you think I don't understand? I am in Jesus because I believe, just as the verse says.
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Why do some Christians reject Baptism saves?
- Thread starter Dogknox20
- Start date
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
Any church? How about the church that says.. "We must re-Form the Church because Jesus lost the Church"?!
How about the Church that says.. "Baptism does NOT make disciples?!"
OR
How about the Church that says.. "Faith ALONE is all man needs to be saved"?!
Or the Church that is saying "Scriptures ALONE are all we need we don't need no church"?!
Or the Church that says... "True Believers reject the Church"?!
Or the Church that says.. "The flesh of Jesus is NOT real food"!
Or the church that says.. "Man cannot lose salvation"!?
Or the Church that says.. "Jesus is NOT God"!
Or the Church that says.. "Any Church will do all are the same"?!
Or the person that says.. "True Believers are they that want truth to be"!?
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
To honor the Mother of the King is to honor the King!
To reject Mary is to reject the Mother of the KING!
Jesus loves his mother Mary in a way ONLY a son could!
Mary loves her Son "God" in a way only a Mother could! Mary bounced God on her knee, She sang to God! Mary IS God' Mother, she nursed God and she changed God' diapers!
Mary gave birth to God! To reject this is to reject truth!
Irenaeus
“The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God” (Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).
Early Christians would call you a heretic!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
I post scriptures... I do NOT judge you.. You are doing that! You MUST reject the scriptures or you would be Catholic!
To reject the words of Jesus is rejecting him; It is condemning yourself..
48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
Little gods reject the scriptures!
"I am with you ALWAYS to the end of time"!
OR
"I will build my church on ROCK it will never fail"!
OR
Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Scriptures.. The words of God.. God cannot lie!
"My Flesh is REAL FOOD my Blood is REAL DRINK!"
Ignatius of Antioch ....Early Christians!
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ . . . and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Okay I wait... Name a Tradition that goes against scriptures... I can think of the Man made tradition of "We don't need Church all we need is scriptures ALONE!" OR "We don't need Church all we need is FAITH ALONE"!
What "Christmas trees!?"
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Wildswanderer The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established On ROCK was commissioned by God to TEACH ALL Nations!
FACT: Until the Printing press 1700 years AFTER Jesus it was ONLY the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Jesus established On ROCK that brought Jesus and salvation to the world!
There were few Bibles and MOST people could not read!
LOGIC ALONE says this is the truth!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
To be IN Jesus you MUST be "IMMERSED into him"!
You reject Baptism as only symbolic! You reject what CHRISTIANS have always believed for Man Made Traditions!
The Didache
“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. If you have no living water, then baptize in other water, and if you are not able in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Before baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Hermas
“‘I have heard, sir,’ said I [to the Shepherd], ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is’” (The Shepherd 4:3:1–2 [A.D. 80]).
Justin Martyr
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
Tatian the Syrian
“Then said Jesus unto them, ‘I have been given all authority in heaven and earth; and as my Father has sent me, so I also send you. Go now into all the world, and preach my gospel in all the creation; and teach all the peoples, and baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit’ [Matt. 28:18-19]” (The Diatesseron 55 [A.D. 170]).
Hippolytus
“When the one being baptized goes down into the water, the one baptizing him shall put his hand on him and speak thus: ‘Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty?’ And he that is being baptized shall say: ‘I believe.’ Then, having his hand imposed upon the head of the one to be baptized, he shall baptize him once. Then he shall say: ‘Do you believe in Christ Jesus . . . ?’ And when he says: ‘I believe,’ he is baptized again. Again shall he say: ‘Do you believe in the Holy Spirit and the holy Church and the resurrection of the flesh?’ The one being baptized then says: ‘I believe.’ And so he is baptized a third time” (The Apostolic Tradition 21 [A.D. 215]).
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
No one ever said that. It's man who corrupted the Catholic church. Jesus always had some true believers even if it was only a remnant.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Did the Spirit guide the Catholics to cover up the epidemic of child abuse in the church?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I never said Mary didn't give birth to God's son, who was fully man and fully God. I never " rejected" Mary. I simply don't reverence her. She was a woman nothing more or less. Not perpetually virgin or sinless.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I don't reject any of Jesus words. You are delusional to make that claim.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I'll name several.
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:9
And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. Matthew 6:7
Goodbye rosary!
Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? "And His sisters, are they not all with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" Matthew 13:55-56
No perpetual virginity!
"While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."" Luke 11:27-28
Ouch! Not very Catholic of Jesus!
"in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." 1 Corinthians 14:19
Goodbye Latin Mass!
"After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him" Matthew 3:16
Why do you sprinkle instead of immersion?
I could go on and on. .. that's at the beginning.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Why did the Catholics not follow these teachings and instead merely sprinkle people? BtW, we follow scripture... not what someone in the church says. Obviously there's a bunch of different baptism traditions in the early church. They also disagree on many doctrines.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Is a "true baptism" a matter of how deep the water is or how much is used? And yet you've accused the Catholic Church of being too ritualistic yourself.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Opinion....Is all you have, Scriptura. "I will build my Church on ROCK the gates of hell will not prevail over it"!
"He whop rejects you Rejects Me"
The Church is the Body of Jesus... As if Satan over powered Jesus and Satan TOOK the Body of Jesus from Jesus! To believe what you do you MUST think Jesus is a fool!
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
In the Bible believers were always immersed. It doesn't effect salvation either way but why not follow what scripture illustrates?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
The church is whoever truly believes, so no Satan has not defeated the true church.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
Wildswanderer where does the scriptures say Baptism does NOT effect salvation either way???
1 Peter 3:21
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Baptism is IMMERSION into the Body of Jesus.. IF you are baptized you can enter the Kingdom!
Philip taught the Eunuch the Importance of Baptism! OTHERWISE.....
Wildswanderer otherwise why was the Eunuch so excited to find water?!
Acts 8:36
As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”
Colossians 2:12
having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
CAN'T be buried with Jesus if first not IMMERSED into Jesus! Baptism is IMMERSION into the Holy Body of Jesus!
Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Baptism saves..
Luke 3:7
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
metis Christians have ALWAYS taught "Baptism Saves"! Ask Wildswanderer to show Christian teaching it does NOT save! He will have to look to the De=formation and the Protestors that reject Jesus to find any on the topic!
Justin Martyr
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
Wildswanderer You reject the Church Jesus established on ROCK!
Ignatius of Antioch
“Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).
Wildswanderer Did you see it?? just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church
Wildswanderer You reject Baptism makes Disciples!
The words of Jesus condemn you... very words I have spoken will condemn them
"Go make disciples of all nations BAPTIZING"!
The Holy Spirit is guiding the Church into ALL TRUTH"!
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
ALL TRUTH.... Did you see it? Not you! You were not there at Pentecost!
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
You answered the question in your second sentence.
In Catholicism, families usually have a choice of either, thus were not as "ritualized" as you are, and yet you blame us for being as such. Maybe look up the word "hypocrisy".
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Wildswanderer YES...The church is whoever truly believes
To be a believer you MUST reject what the Anti-Catholic teaches.. Martin Luther started the TRADITION by teaching. "We don't need no stinking church all we need is the bible and Faith.. ALONE"!
Believers believe the scriptures they REJECT man made TRADITIONS!
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Martin Luther was treated as a Pagan!
Wildswanderer A pagan is a person OUTSIDE of God' holy Family! Think... If The Catholic Church did not defend the Truth; then today you would believe Jesus was NOT God you would also reject the Trinity!
Arius WAS a Christian just as Martin Luther.. Both men were AMONG Christians until they were REJECTED as false Teachers; As Heretics!
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
Wildswanderer This (above) is scripture PROPHESY it cannot work in the reverse... Christians were NOT AMONG "Martin Luther or Arius"! They "Martin Luther or Arius" were AMONG Christians until they were REJECTED as Whackos rejected as False Teachers!
Wildswanderer Arius taught "Jesus is NOT God"; If the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church did not reject Arius as a False Teacher today you would believe the Heresy of "Jesus is NOT God"!
Martin Luther rejected the scriptures outright to teach his lies! Both were rejected as False Teacher they taught heresies
You have placed the salvation of your soul in a man made TRADITION!