Why do some Christians reject Baptism saves?

[Wildswanderer]

The Goats are those who have "Faith ALONE" no good works!

Never Heard any protestant pastor say that we will not do good if we are truly saved. Good work is the result of a change in the person. If he's doing good to earn salvation, what is good about that? That's a selfish reason to do good.

 

[Wildswanderer]

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Do you keep the law? No you don't.

This person was asking what good works he must do to inherit eternal life (v. 16).
He believed that his salvation was dependent upon his faith in God and his works of the Law. Jesus answered him according to his beliefs.
The man boasted that he was keeping all the law.
Was he?
Of course not. No one ever kept the law perfectly.
Jesus knew he wasn’t keeping the Law and showed the man his failure.
So, for all who want to do good works to obtain eternal life, they are obligated to keep the whole Law. But no one can, and that is the point. No one can.

James 2:10, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” Paul says in Gal. 3:10, “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.’”

Fortunately, in Romans 3:28 we are told that we are “justified by faith apart from the works of the Law”
Matthew 19:16-22 isn’t teaching that faith and good works save us. Instead, it is teaching that if you want to be justified by faith and works you must keep the Law perfectly. You can’t.

Jesus Christ, who is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9), fulfilled the law perfectly and never sinned (1 Peter 2:22). He fulfilled the Old Testament requirements of being a proper sacrifice for our sins (Lev. 17:11; Deut. 17:1; John 19:36). Jesus did everything that is necessary when he fulfilled the Law. Therefore, we are justified without the works of the law (Rom. 3:28) and must put our faith and trust in what Christ did (Rom. 4:5; 5:1).

 

[Wildswanderer]

Of course, it's not the Gospel. What a bizarre statement.

So.. I'm curious why you would attend a church that teaches something other than the gospel?

 

[Wildswanderer]

The Goats have NO LOVE they do NOT lift a finger to help anyone, they are Godless!

Good thing that protestants don't do that then. They do in fact help people.

 

[metis]

So.. I'm curious why you would attend a church that teaches something other than the gospel?

You know, nonsense like the above is really getting way too old, and yet you are so dishonest to claim that you're not anti-Catholic in a previous post. Heck, you could even be the poster child for religious bigotry. Thus, I'm done with you judgementalism and dishonesty.

I will not any longer engage with such depravity, so maybe think about what you're doing and pray for God's guidance.

bye

 

[Wildswanderer]

You know, nonsense like the above is really getting way too old, and yet you are so dishonest to claim that you're not anti-Catholic in a previous post. Heck, you could even be the poster child for religious bigotry. Thus, I'm done with you judgementalism and dishonesty.

I will not any longer engage with such depravity, so maybe think about what you're doing and pray for God's guidance.

bye

There's a big difference between being anti people that believe certain doctrines and being anti certain doctrines. I think that should be obvious.

 

[Dogknox20]

“Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John—although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples” (John 4:1–2). So, the disciples were baptizing by His direction- Jesus was not personally baptizing anyone.
Is this what you're referring to?
We don't know if Jesus personally baptized anyone.

Now, keep in mind that the baptism of Jesus was “with the Holy Spirit and fire” (Mt 3:11-12)(Mk 1:8)(Lk 3:16-17)(Jn 1:33)(Acts 1:5)(1 Cor 12:13).

It seems like these baptisms at John's time were a symbol of peoples commitment to follow whatever God was doing next. After all Pentecost hadn't happened yet. They were apparently not being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Spirit.

.
Wildswanderer Good question... Simple answer is.... The Groom does NOT form the Children the Bride forms God' children the Groom sends the Gift!
Jesus was not personally baptizing anyone.. The Church baptizes with WATER; The GROOM does NOT baptize! The Father does NOT have a womb the woman Form3es the Children! John 3:23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water,

QUESTION: Why were they Baptizing at Aenon near Salim?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Baptism of John removes sins..<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Wildswanderer The Baptism of the Church removes sins "PLUS" "ALSO" "AND" gives each person the Holy Spirit as a "The GIFT"! After Pentecost each person baptized by the EMPOWERED CHURCH were ADDED to the Family of God each received God "The Holy Spirit!"
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

LOOK.. The Thief was NOT baptized by The Church he died before Pentecost! The Thief ended up in a Garden "Paradise"!
Revelation 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Tree Of Life is in a Garden! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Paradise!


The Thief did NOT enter the KINGDOM but only a Garden!
Luke 7:28
I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
John was NOT baptized by The Church he also died before Pentecost! John did NOT enter the KINGDOM, he also ended up in a Garden!

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Wildswanderer 3000 were ADDED to the Body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost.. 3000 enter the Kingdom the first day of Pentecost!

 

[Wildswanderer]

QUESTION: Why were they Baptizing at Aenon near Salim?

Probably because that's where the water was.

 

[Wildswanderer]

LOOK.. The Thief was NOT baptized by The Church he died before Pentec

The thief went to heaven... What? Are you creating yet another fantasy place for people who are only kinda saved?

 

[Wildswanderer]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Tree Of Life is in a Garden! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Paradise!

Heaven.

 

[Wildswanderer]

.
Wildswanderer Good question... Simple answer is.... The Groom does NOT form the Children the Bride forms God' children the Groom sends the Gift!
Jesus was not personally baptizing anyone.. The Church baptizes with WATER; The GROOM does NOT baptize! The Father does NOT have a womb the woman Form3es the Children! John 3:23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water,

QUESTION: Why were they Baptizing at Aenon near Salim?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Baptism of John removes sins..<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Wildswanderer The Baptism of the Church removes sins "PLUS" "ALSO" "AND" gives each person the Holy Spirit as a "The GIFT"! After Pentecost each person baptized by the EMPOWERED CHURCH were ADDED to the Family of God each received God "The Holy Spirit!"
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

LOOK.. The Thief was NOT baptized by The Church he died before Pentecost! The Thief ended up in a Garden "Paradise"!
Revelation 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The Tree Of Life is in a Garden! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Paradise!


The Thief did NOT enter the KINGDOM but only a Garden!
Luke 7:28
I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
John was NOT baptized by The Church he also died before Pentecost! John did NOT enter the KINGDOM, he also ended up in a Garden!

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Wildswanderer 3000 were ADDED to the Body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost.. 3000 enter the Kingdom the first day of Pentecost!

• Luke 1:15, “For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb.”
• Luke 1:41, “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.”
• Luke 1:67, “And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying…”
• Acts 2:4, “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
• Acts 4:8, “Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of the people,”
• Acts 4:31, “And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.”
• Acts 9:17, “So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
• Acts 13:9, “But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze on him,”
• Acts 13:52, “And the disciples were continually filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.”
• Eph 5:18, “And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,”

So, we can see that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit while he was in his mother’s womb. Of course, he had not been baptized at that point. In Luke 1:41 we see that Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she had not been baptized either. The same is true with Zacharias in Luke 1:67. In Acts 2:4 people were filled with the Holy Spirit and were not baptized until later on (Acts 2:38).

 

[Dogknox20]

Probably because that's where the water was.

Right.. Baptism is ALWAYS done with WATER!
Wildswanderer people cannot baptize themselves!

Church baptizes! It an a action of Holy Mother Church "The Bride" to re-Form Adams children into the form of God' children! Then the groom sends the GIFT of God himself: the Holy Spirit! IT....

Wildswanderer it takes two parents to form a child! TWO.. (2)
1) My Father is God my 2) Mother is his bride the "One Holy Catholic Apostolic BRIDE!" TWO Parents I do NOT come from a broken home!!
I honor God my Father & I honor my Mother the Bride of Jesus his Holy Church; she FORMED me by immersion into the Body of Jesus!

The word "Baptism" is a transliteration of the Greek word BAPTIZO which means to immerse. In Hebrew it is referred to as a MIKVEH - an immersion.

Baptism IMMERSES us into the Body of Jesus! Baptism SAVES! Baptism makes Disciples.. Of ALL Nations!

 

[Dogknox20]

The thief went to heaven... What? Are you creating yet another fantasy place for people who are only kinda saved?

The thief went to heaven... What? Are you creating yet another fantasy place for people who are only kinda saved?

Luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

The Thief went to heaven!
The Thief went to Paradise!

Revelation 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

 

[Dogknox20]

• Luke 1:15, “For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb.”
• Luke 1:41, “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.”
• Luke 1:67, “And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying…”
• Acts 2:4, “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
• Acts 4:8, “Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of the people,”
• Acts 4:31, “And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.”
• Acts 9:17, “So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
• Acts 13:9, “But Saul, who was also known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze on him,”
• Acts 13:52, “And the disciples were continually filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.”
• Eph 5:18, “And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,”

So, we can see that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit while he was in his mother’s womb. Of course, he had not been baptized at that point. In Luke 1:41 we see that Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she had not been baptized either. The same is true with Zacharias in Luke 1:67. In Acts 2:4 people were filled with the Holy Spirit and were not baptized until later on (Acts 2:38).

.
Wildswanderer RIGHT Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit in his mothers womb!!!! Jesus did NOT need to be Baptized! Mary brought the Holy Spirit to John!
14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
15 Jesus answered, “For now this is how it should be, because we must do all that God wants us to do.” Then John agreed.

LOOK.. Jesus was setting out an example!
And God declared "This is my Child"!
Wildswanderer When we were Baptized we also are then claimed as God' child!
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

 

[Wildswanderer]

Church baptizes! It an a action of Holy Mother Church

John the Baptist was the church?
Not.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Baptism IMMERSES us into the Body of Jesus! Baptism SAVES! Baptism makes Disciples.. Of ALL Nations!

Baptism is symbolic of salvation...not salvation itself.
The water Jesus refered to being washed with was symbolic for spiritual cleansing.

Jesus’s use of “born of water and the Spirit” is Jesus’s explanation of what he means by “born again,” and is intended to answer Nicodemus’s question.

Why should Nicodemus have understood?
Because of this;
Ezekiel 36:25–27:

I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

The use of the word water is symbolism for being born again.... not literal water at all

 

[Wildswanderer]

The Thief went to heaven!
The Thief went to Paradise!

Without being dunked.

 

[Dogknox20]

The thief went to heaven... What? Are you creating yet another fantasy place for people who are only kinda saved?

.
Wildswanderer The Baptism of the Church removes sins "PLUS" "ALSO" "AND" gives each person the Holy Spirit as a "The GIFT"!

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. .. WATER AND.. PLUS... ALSO the spirit..
NOT SPIRIT ALONE! Water by the Bride.. Spirit comes as a GIFT by the Groom!

After Pentecost each person baptized by the EMPOWERED CHURCH were ADDED to the Family of God each received God "The Holy Spirit!"
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

3000 were ADDED to the Body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost! The Thief and John were NOT Baptized by the empowered Bride they were NOT added to the Body of Jesus! They ended up in Paradise NOT in the Throne room they were NOT Children of the Bride & Groom.. They were friends of the king not his children they have NO INHERANTANCE!
Matthew 25:34
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Ephesians 5:5
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

 

[Dogknox20]

Baptism is symbolic of salvation...not salvation itself.
The water Jesus refered to being washed with was symbolic for spiritual cleansing.

Jesus’s use of “born of water and the Spirit” is Jesus’s explanation of what he means by “born again,” and is intended to answer Nicodemus’s question.

Why should Nicodemus have understood?
Because of this;
Ezekiel 36:25–27:

I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

The use of the word water is symbolism for being born again.... not literal water at all

Water washes away sin! The waters saved Moses it washed away the army of Egypt!
John baptized to remove sins! Baptism removes sin!
The empowered Church baptizes to remove sins! To say different you are forced to once again reject the scriptures as a lie!
Wildswanderer, Baptism saves because it removes sins.. It cannot be symbolic if it does something!

 

[Wildswanderer]

Water washes away sin! The waters saved Moses it washed away the army of Egypt!
John baptized to remove sins! Baptism removes sin!
The empowered Church baptizes to remove sins! To say different you are forced to once again reject the scriptures as a lie!
Wildswanderer, Baptism saves because it removes sins.. It cannot be symbolic if it does something!

No, in fact the verse that people use to promote salvation by baptism says it's not the water but a clear conscience that saves.
"and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

The water symbolizes baptism? What baptism? The cleaning of the heart and conscience... not the washing of the body. Baptism just means submersion and it's used in several different ways in scripture.
We are saved by being in Christ not be being in water. If water could save, the first bath you ever got would insure your place in heaven.
The water is a symbol not the thing itself. It's actually a superstition to make a symbol have actual power. Like thinking crossing yourself actually protects you somehow. Or wearing a cross for protection from evil.