Why do people leave Christianity?

[halbhh]

But everyone does not grieve with the same intensity or for the same length of time, and not everyone loses the same number of loved ones. Moreover, not everyone has the same social support when they lose a loved one.

I agree. If there was an 'agree' button, I'd click that. Some people lose a lot of loved ones relatively fast too.

 

[Trailblazer]

Some people lose a lot of loved ones relatively fast too.

Such has been the case for me, it never seems to end.

 

[osgart]

I did everything I could to avoid Christianity, but it was so so prevalent in the culture I grew up in. Literal Christianity has no observable facts in it. Everything is here say.

I desperately wanted to live in a world of reason, logic, and moral justification. I wanted to explore the unknown, and Christianity never leads one to sincere questions about truth. If you take the stories in the Bible as literal events that are obvious and above questioning then you are living with the blinders on, and only seeing what you want to see.

Reading the Bible I saw no explanation for the actions of God. " God says, it's obvious, just accept ", doesn't cut the objective mustard.

Christianity does not encourage anyone to think for themselves. In fact it says to clear out your mind by telling you to lean not on your own understanding.

If God created humans so deficiently, that God can not speak plain truth to the hearts and minds of his creations, and I have to abandon my mind altogether to imbibe the Bible, then clearly this is no truth. It's blind obedience.
Rationalizations galore!!

So I left it!!

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I was on the ex Christian sub and lot of people there seem to have only surface level knowledge of Christianity meaning they were either mislead by false teachers or they never truly understood the doctrine. Why do you think some people, when they don't understand something, they keep digging until it makes sense? While others use it as an excuse to leave the religion altogether?

When I come across something I don't get, it makes me search harder for the truth, it doesn't make me turn my back on God.

You're talking as if digging deeper for the truth is going to uncover all sorts of pro-Christian goodies you'll eat like candy. Be careful. You might dig up a monster that will swallow your faith whole--I mean unless the websites you're studying are things like DesiringGod.com and CARM.

I did a 1-year study of the origins of Christianity and what I uncovered was so dark, deep and disturbing it shattered my Christian faith. So be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.

 

[halbhh]

Christianity does not encourage anyone to think for themselves.

I read through your post, and am just highlighting this one bit because of the striking pattern in the gospels of Christ directly and emphatically challenging his disciples to think harder, more:

There are many moments like this:

Mark 8:21 Then He asked them, "Do you still not understand?"

And other wordings, which are about challenging them to think it through, make the mental breakthrough, try harder mentally.

So, really, Christ is prodding his followers, many times, to think, try to figure out more, themselves.

This isn't the other way of just 'lean on your own understanding' where a person ignores what God teaches. It instead means to listen and hear what He, Christ, is saying, and think it through more. Listen to Him and think on what He says, more.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I read through your post, and am just highlighting this one bit because of the striking pattern in the gospels of Christ directly and emphatically challenging his disciples to think harder, more:

There are many moments like this:

Mark 8:21 Then He asked them, "Do you still not understand?"

And other wordings, which are about challenging them to think it through, make the mental breakthrough, try harder mentally.

So, really, Christ is prodding his followers, many times, to think, try to figure out more, themselves.

This isn't the other way of just 'lean on your own understanding' where a person ignores what God teaches. It instead means to listen and hear what He, Christ, is saying, and think it through more. Listen to Him and think on what He says, more.

Jesus told the apostles, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" Mark 4:12

Jesus wants some to understand, but the vast majority of humanity he wants to leave in the dark because if they did understand they might be forgiven of their sins and Jesus clearly doesn't want that.

 

[halbhh]

I was on the ex Christian sub and lot of people there seem to have only surface level knowledge of Christianity meaning they were either mislead by false teachers or they never truly understood the doctrine. Why do you think some people, when they don't understand something, they keep digging until it makes sense? While others use it as an excuse to leave the religion altogether?

When I come across something I don't get, it makes me search harder for the truth, it doesn't make me turn my back on God.

That's consistently correct in my experience. Over and over the non believer objections to the text turn out to be either lack of read, or misreading, or very partial, incomplete reading, and over and over also substituting in extra ideas and assumptions not in the text, and imagining them into the text.

But that's not the main reason in my estimation for most that leave and then use such propaganda like painting onto the text. Sure, those ideas/memes are themselves enticing, as they help justify or rationalize what the non believer wants to think. it's so much more comfortable to imagine the text wrong, than it would be to find out more exactly what sections really mean in full context, especially when the meaning is challenging, such as when it's painting a picture of universal human tendency to do evil, for example (an idea not everyone would like to see to put it mildly!). But, sometimes it seems to me this propaganda like talking points we hear over and over about God doing evil are more after the fact. More about later-on afterthought of later in time supporting a position one prefers, instead of the main cause of leaving, for most.

 

[halbhh]

Jesus told the apostles, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'" Mark 4:12

Jesus wants some to understand, but the vast majority of humanity he wants to leave in the dark because if they did understand they might be forgiven of their sins and Jesus clearly doesn't want that.

Yes, it's such a striking thing: for some people, God doesn't want them to find out the truth, it seems (from the scriptures as a whole) there is something about some particular people which is so incompatible with His way that He doesn't want those particular individuals to figure it out and repent.

And this below may be one of those key things:

"God opposes the proud, but gives Grace to the humble"

(paraphrase: God doesn't accept (at all!) the arrogant, and not even 1 arrogant person will be able to enter heaven)

(and all the related verses about the strong favor towards those who are humble number in the many dozens altogether, through the bible)

 

[Rival]

Yes, it's such a striking thing: for some people, God doesn't want them to find out the truth, it seems (from the scriptures as a whole) there is something about some particular people which is so incompatible with His way that He doesn't want those particular individuals to figure it out and repent.

And this below may be one of those key things:

"God opposes the proud, but gives Grace to the humble"

(paraphrase: God doesn't accept (at all!) the arrogant, and not even 1 arrogant person will be able to enter heaven)

(and all the related verses about the strong favor towards those who are humble number in the many dozens altogether, through the bible)

Or it could just be that humble folks find other religions that make more sense to them.

 

[halbhh]

Or it could just be that humble folks find other religions that make more sense to them.

Yup, you can totally rationalize it how you want. That's part of the intent -- you have to come to God in faith, not from seeing proof or from logical argument sans something more. (but faith isn't 'blind'. it's faith in something in particular, the aspects of which Jesus tells us a lot about -- so therefore it's faith in some particular things that can be considered and then one gets to choose whether to hear and consider what he says...)

 

[Rival]

Yup, you can totally rationalize it how you want. That's part of the intent -- you have to come to God in faith, not from seeing proof or from logical argument sans something more. (but faith isn't 'blind'. it's faith in something in particular, the aspects of which Jesus tells us a lot about -- so therefore it's faith in some particular things that can be considered and then one gets to choose whether to hear and consider what he says...)

Many folks from different religions use the exact same theistic arguments. I'm not talking about God belief though - I'm talking about Christianity not making sense as a religion, as it doesn't to many folks.

 

[osgart]

I read through your post, and am just highlighting this one bit because of the striking pattern in the gospels of Christ directly and emphatically challenging his disciples to think harder, more:

There are many moments like this:

Mark 8:21 Then He asked them, "Do you still not understand?"

And other wordings, which are about challenging them to think it through, make the mental breakthrough, try harder mentally.

So, really, Christ is prodding his followers, many times, to think, try to figure out more, themselves.

This isn't the other way of just 'lean on your own understanding' where a person ignores what God teaches. It instead means to listen and hear what He, Christ, is saying, and think it through more. Listen to Him and think on what He says, more.

I was referring to proverbs 3:5-6.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yup, you can totally rationalize it how you want. That's part of the intent -- you have to come to God in faith, not from seeing proof or from logical argument sans something more. (but faith isn't 'blind'. it's faith in something in particular, the aspects of which Jesus tells us a lot about -- so therefore it's faith in some particular things that can be considered and then one gets to choose whether to hear and consider what he says...)

You are using a different definition of "blind" than the one those that claim you are working on blind faith. When people use the phrase that way they mean a belief with out evidence. And there does not appear to be any reliable evidence for any faith based belief. That is why faith is clearly not a pathway to the truth. The same sort of "faith" that will confirm your belief in Jesus will confirm a Muslim's belief in Allah.

 

[halbhh]

Many folks from different religions use the exact same theistic arguments. I'm not talking about God belief though - I'm talking about Christianity not making sense as a religion, as it doesn't to many folks.

I agree on this part: the some of the popular versions people have heard about Christianity have internal contradictions (and/or contradict the text). I'd agree some of those things -- mistaken ideas like the popular one of God pre-choosing everyone that will be saved and who will be destroyed individually (instead of corporately) -- don't make sense, having read the text and seeing how they don't fit it. So, yeah, so-called 'Christianity' as often heard represented indeed often doesn't make much sense.

 

[halbhh]

I was referring to proverbs 3:5-6.

Me too. (did you miss the last paragraph of my post? Sorry for being verbose!)

 

[Rival]

I agree on this part: the some of the popular versions people have heard about Christianity have internal contradictions (and/or contradict the text). I'd agree some of those things -- mistaken ideas like the popular one of God pre-choosing everyone that will be saved and who will be destroyed individually (instead of corporately) -- don't make sense, having read the text and seeing how they don't fit it. So, yeah, so-called 'Christianity' as often heard represented indeed often doesn't make much sense.

For me it's the texts themselves not lining up with the Tanakh; Jesus not fulfilling the Messianic prophecies; internal inconsistencies etc. It is nothing like Judaism.

 

[Subduction Zone]

For me it's the texts themselves not lining up with the Tanakh; Jesus not fulfilling the Messianic prophecies; internal inconsistencies etc. It is nothing like Judaism.

Which is why Christians invented a whole slew of new "Messianic prophecies". Their is strong evidence that some of the so called fulfilled prophecies were simply written into the story after the fact. The authors of the Gospels were scholars of the Torah. There are verses where it looks like they did an almost copy and paste of single verses in the Old Testament taken out of context so that they could claim to have fulfilled prophecy.

 

[halbhh]

You are using a different definition of "blind" than the one those that claim you are working on blind faith. When people use the phrase that way they mean a belief with out evidence. And there does not appear to be any reliable evidence for any faith based belief.

As I see it, one should form a hypothesis, and then test it.

There a small but meaningful leap of faith in that --> you have some faith enough the hypothesis might work (you believe before proof there could be an equation that works, even though that's not yet proven) so that you invest time and energy to check to see if the hypothesis works.

The same sort of "faith" that will confirm your belief in Jesus will confirm a Muslim's belief in Allah.

That would only be like a confirmation bias mistake. To avoid confirmation bias is a matter of competence and effort. One puts in the work. Does the effort. That's implied in the word "check" or "test" the hypothesis.

You aren't trying to prove it right, you are trying to prove it wrong!
(Karl Poppers methodology)

Only if the theory survives repeated testing in a variety of tests do we start to have confidence in it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I see it, one should form a hypothesis, and then test it.

There a small but meaningful leap of faith in that --> you have some faith enough the hypothesis might work (you believe before proof there could be an equation that works, even though that's not yet proven) so that you invest time and energy to check to see if the hypothesis works.


That would only be like a confirmation bias mistake. To avoid confirmation bias is a matter of competence and effort. One puts in the work. Does the effort. That's implied in the word "check" or "test" the hypothesis.

You aren't trying to prove it right, you are trying to prove it wrong!
(Karl Poppers methodology)

Only if the theory survives repeated testing in a variety of tests do we start to have confidence in it.

I have often asked theists how they would test their beliefs. None of them ever seem to come up with a test that does not rely on almost pure confirmation bias. That is why people will say that the faith of Christians is the same as the faith of Muslims.

But you could show us to be wrong. What sort of test for your beliefs do you have? In case you did not know you implied that there was such a test when you propose forming a hypothesis. The test of a hypothesis is a key part of its formation. Without a way to test one only has an ad hoc explanation. Not a hypothesis.

 

[Jose Fly]

For me it was a pretty basic and early realization that the overall outline depicted in the Bible makes no sense, especially as a planned course of action from a god. That, plus the ridiculous answers to my questions I received from Christian leaders, and their judgemental, condescending attitudes, led me to walk away and never look back.