Why do people leave Christianity?

[Deeje]

But we needed Baha'u'llah to bring these spiritual truths to remembrance:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And we needed Baha'u'llah reveal what will be needed for humans to build the Kingdom of God on earth.

Who told you that....Baha'u'llah? LOL...

There is no such thing as a Holy Ghost....the Holy Spirit is God's power expressed as he directs to accomplish his will. That is what the disciples at Pentecost received in order to demonstrate the gifts of the spirit that Jesus promised.....Could Baha'u'llah heal the sick?.... make the lame walk?....the deaf hear.....the dead live again? Jesus and his disciples could, so how did your prophet prove his claims? By copying old ideas out of the Bible...?

I'm afraid he'd have to do better than that for me. You have nothing but his word for anything he said. How do you know that he was who he claimed to be? Baha'i have the same kind of scenario as the LDS.....all beliefs are based on the words of a self-proclaimed prophet who could not prove a single thing he said.

And Baha'u'llah died of a fever and was buried in an elaborate tomb...Baha'i's can visit this place......it was prophesied in scripture that Jesus would be resurrected......where is Jesus buried? Where is his elaborate tomb?

 

[Trailblazer]

Who told you that....Baha'u'llah? LOL...

Who told you anything that you believe, the unnamed authors who wrote the Bible, LOL...

There is no such thing as a Holy Ghost....the Holy Spirit is God's power expressed as he directs to accomplish his will. That is what the disciples at Pentecost received in order to demonstrate the gifts of the spirit that Jesus promised.....

Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, it means the same thing.

Could Baha'u'llah heal the sick?.... make the lame walk?....the deaf hear.....the dead live again?

Baha'u'llah could do anything that Jesus could do, because He was a Manifestation of God.

Question.—It is recorded that miracles were performed by Christ. Are the reports of these miracles really to be accepted literally, or have they another meaning? It has been proved by exact science that the essence of things does not change, and that all beings are under one universal law and organization from which they cannot deviate; and, therefore, that which is contrary to universal law is impossible.

Answer.—The Holy Manifestations are the sources of miracles and the originators of wonderful signs. For Them, any difficult and impracticable thing is possible and easy. For through a supernatural power wonders appear from Them; and by this power, which is beyond nature, They influence the world of nature. From all the Manifestations marvelous things have appeared.

But in the Holy Books an especial terminology is employed, and for the Manifestations these miracles and wonderful signs have no importance. They do not even wish to mention them. For if we consider miracles a great proof, they are still only proofs and arguments for those who are present when they are performed, and not for those who are absent....
Some Answered Questions, p. 100

22: MIRACLES

Jesus and his disciples could, so how did your prophet prove his claims? By copying old ideas out of the Bible...?

Have fun PROVING that Jesus ever did ANYTHING that is recorded in the New Testament.
The Only Reason I believe that Jesus actually did any of those things is because Baha'u'llah wrote about them... in His Own Pen.

“It is also recorded in the Gospel according to St. Luke, that on a certain day Jesus passed by a Jew who was sick of the palsy, and lay upon a couch. When the Jew saw Him, he recognized Him, and cried out for His help. Jesus said unto him: “Arise from thy bed; thy sins are forgiven thee.” Certain of the Jews, standing by, protested saying: “Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” And immediately He perceived their thoughts, Jesus answering said unto them: “Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, arise, and take up thy bed, and walk; or to say, thy sins are forgiven thee? that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins.” 7 This is the real sovereignty, and such is the power of God’s chosen Ones! All these things which We have repeatedly mentioned, and the details which We have cited from divers sources, have no other purpose but to enable thee to grasp the meaning of the allusions in the utterances of the chosen Ones of God, lest certain of these utterances cause thy feet to falter and thy heart to be dismayed.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 133-134

Copying His ideas from the Bible? Why would Baha'ullah want to copy what men wrote when received a direct Revelation from God which He wrote down in His Own Pen?

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

I'm afraid he'd have to do better than that for me. You have nothing but his word for anything he said. How do you know that he was who he claimed to be?

How do you know that Jesus was who He claimed to be? You have MUCH LESS evidence for Jesus than I have for Baha'u'llah and NONE of your evidence as per the Bible is verifiable, like what I have for Baha'u'llah, all of which can be verified by historical records. The claims of Baha'u'llah and the evidence that supports those claims is listed on this post:

Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

I know that Jesus was sent by God and what He was sent to do only because Baha'u'llah verified that.

Baha'i have the same kind of scenario as the LDS.....all beliefs are based on the words of a self-proclaimed prophet who could prove a single thing he said.

And you can prove anything that Jesus said us true? You cannot even prove it came from Jesus.
Lol, 100 times Lol..
You have zero, zilch, nada, because the Bible is just an ancient book written by men who never even knew Jesus.... What is amazing is that any truth came through, and I only believe that because of what the Baha'i Faith teaches about the Bible:

"The Bahá'ís believe what is in the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic saying of a Prophet....

The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words"
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)

The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments
(From letters written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice)

And Baha'u'llah died of a fever and was buried in an elaborate tomb...Baha'i's can visit this place......it was prophesied in scripture that Jesus would be resurrected......where is Jesus buried? Where is his elaborate tomb?

So what is the Bab and Baha'u'llah have an elaborate tomb? Then was then and now is now.

Jesus was resurrected and Paul said that Jesus was resurrected in a spiritual body, not in a physical body.
Baha'u'llah was also resurrected in a spiritual body, after His physical body died, just as Jesus was resurrected in a spiritual;body after His physical body died. All humans die and are resurrected in the same fashion, Jesus was not special that way, although Jesus was special in many other ways.

What Paul wrote is right on the money. I picked the most pertinent verses from the chapter because that helps to see it clearer. Our physical bodies will be transformed into bodies that will never die. Our transformed bodies will be spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

Just because the body of Jesus has never been found that does not prove that the body of Jesus rose from the grave... Know anything about logic or archaeology? Even if the remains of Jesus were found, Christians would still believe that Jesus rose from the grave, such is the nature of religious tradition.... it has nothing to do with logic or evidence. It is all about what people want to believe.

 

[Deeje]

And you can prove anything that Jesus said us true? You cannot even prove it came from Jesus.

Trailblazer it always amuses me that Baha'i have the audacity to tell us Christians what our Leader taught.....why do you quote the words of Jesus and the Bible if you don't even believe that he was who he said he was or that our scripture is in fact the word of God? No Bible book has an unnamed author.
You can't shoot us down without shooting yourselves in the foot.

Does Jesus even recognize you, since you are not his disciples? Will he find you 'doing the will of his Father'? I guess we will all see soon enough.....(Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer it always amuses me that Baha'i have the audacity to tell us Christians what our Leader taught.....why do you quote the words of Jesus and the Bible if you don't even believe that he was who he said he was or that our scripture is in fact the word of God?

Baha'i views of the Bible range along the full spectrum of possibilities, as noted below.
I stated my position, the words in the New Testament are not the exact words of Jesus. I believe that the Bible is a reliable source of Divine guidance and salvation, and rightly regarded as a sacred and holy book.

Introduction

Although Bahá'ís universally share a great respect for the Bible, and acknowledge its status as sacred literature, their individual views about its authoritative status range along the full spectrum of possibilities. At one end there are those who assume the uncritical evangelical or fundamentalist-Christian view that the Bible is wholly and indisputably the word of God. At the other end are Bahá'ís attracted to the liberal, scholarly conclusion that the Bible is no more than a product of complex historical and human forces. Between these extremes is the possibility that the Bible contains the Word of God, but only in a particular sense of the phrase 'Word of God' or in particular texts. I hope to show that a Bahá'í view must lie in this middle area, and can be defined to some degree.

Conclusion

The Bahá'í viewpoint proposed by this essay has been established as follows: The Bible is a reliable source of Divine guidance and salvation, and rightly regarded as a sacred and holy book. However, as a collection of the writings of independent and human authors, it is not necessarily historically accurate. Nor can the words of its writers, although inspired, be strictly defined as 'The Word of God' in the way the original words of Moses and Jesus could have been. Instead there is an area of continuing interest for Bahá'í scholars, possibly involving the creation of new categories for defining authoritative religious literature.

A Baháí View of the Bible

(Rosebery, Australia: Association for Baha'i Studies Australia, 1996)
Who wrote down Jesus words?

Regarding who wrote the Bible, there are different views, but nobody really knows.

Christian apologists and most lay Christians assume on the basis of 4th century Church teaching that the gospels were written by the Evangelists c. 50-65 AD, but the scholarly consensus is that they are the work of unknown Christians and were composed c. 68-110 AD.

Historical reliability of the Gospels - Wikipedia

No Bible book has an unnamed author.

Books of the Bible had names but every Bible scholar knows that the books were not written by those whose names are on the books.

You can't shoot us down without shooting yourselves in the foot.

I am not trying to shoot anyone down, let alone Jesus.... It is YOU who keeps trying to shoot Baha'u'llah down.

Does Jesus even recognize you, since you are not his disciples? Will he find you 'doing the will of his Father'? I guess we will all see soon enough.....(Matthew 7:21-23)

Are you now one of Jesus' disciples?
Jesus will find me doing the Will of the Father because Baha'u'llah revealed the Will of the Father for this age.
Jesus will not find Christians doing the Will of the Father because they all rejected the Father when He came in the Person of Baha'u'llah.

“The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty. Turn your faces towards Him, O concourse of the righteous… This is the day whereon the Rock (Peter) crieth out and shouteth, and celebrateth the praise of its Lord, the All-Possessing, the Most High, saying: ‘Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!…’” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85

 

[Glaurung]

In my experience, it was the Christendom's lack of knowledge of the deeper things that confused me. I am a questioner and always have been....my many questions went unanswered, and "I dunno" was not good enough. So in leaving Christendom, I never left God or the Bible, having deep respect for both. I just wanted to feel as if God was present in more authentic ways that the architecture or the emotional appeals. I saw all of Christendom basically teaching the same sad lies under different banners. I agreed with all the reasons why Protestantism had rejected many of the more unscriptural Catholic doctrines, but it still retained the core beliefs that took it off the path of the truth in the beginning. I was looking for the God of Jesus Christ....but he was nowhere to be found in Christendom.

Obviously I do not accept this narrative. While I do not doubt your sincerity I reject claims that Catholicism is an unscriptural error. Along with Orthodoxy I believe it to be the ancient faith passed down by the Apostles. It is Protestantism and by extension your own chruch which has erred in its presuppositions.

But neither of us are going to budge here so let's not go down this path.

Things can only get worse as we see the erosion of all the standards that we once took for granted....no "mother or father" no gender identifying labels or things that set the sexes apart for their purpose here.
The world has indeed gone mad...and I believe this is the beginning of the end of life as we know it on this planet....God will step in and say...."ENOUGH!!"

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to predict the end times. Things will probably get quite bad and western civilization may even collapse. But as to when our lord returns and summons us to judgment that is for him to know. Also, don't make the mistake in thinking that the trends of the present make for an inevitable future. At least in the long term.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Why do you think some people, when they don't understand something, they keep digging until it makes sense? While others use it as an excuse to leave the religion altogether?

What if it so happens that the more you search, the more you are convinced that the teachings are not all they are cracked up to be? You seem to speak as if such a thing is impossible. I assure you that it is not.

When I come across something I don't get, it makes me search harder for the truth, it doesn't make me turn my back on God.

Both of these statements make it clear that you work first from the assumption that God exists. This is NOT a path to finding the truth - it is exactly the opposite. You will, apparently, never concern yourself with that very fundamental question - whether God exists or not - and in glossing over that, you prove that "the truth" behind that question - whatever it is - is not something you are interested in. You have made your assumptions, and you are sticking to them. I, for one, find it sad and unappealing.

 

[Deeje]

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to predict the end times. Things will probably get quite bad and western civilization may even collapse. But as to when our lord returns and summons us to judgment that is for him to know. Also, don't make the mistake in thinking that the trends of the present make for an inevitable future. At least in the long term.

Jesus told us to “keep on the watch” because his return will come suddenly and without warning. (Matthew 24:43-44) Having said that, he gave his disciples a “sign” so that we could identify the time period where that composite sign would be observed. (Matthew 24:3-14)

I believe that we are deep into that time and that when the inevitable collapse comes, culminating in the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen, (Matthew 24:21) Jesus’ true disciples will not be caught unawares, or be entangled in the political mess either. They have already separated themselves from the world in the ways that Jesus told them to. (John 15:18-21) It doesn’t make them popular....

 

[Leylary56]

Many people leave Christianity because they cannot find answers to their questions. Or when the dark sides of Christianity are revealed, such as the crimes of Catholic priests, which we will not name. For example, when some terrible things happen in a person's family, someone dies and the person cannot understand why this is happening, they begin to lose faith. I am just also interested in this topic and am writing aт essay on Christianity describing its various aspects. I have read many different papers on the personal relationship of people to religion at Christianity Essay Examples and Research Papers on Samploon.com. Free argumenttive, persuasive and narrative essay samples and have come across stories of people who have ceased to believe. The reasons for such a change are usually found in negative life experiences when a person thinks that there is no God since he allowed something terrible to happen.

 

[Trailblazer]

The reasons for such a change are usually found in negative life experiences when a person thinks that there is no God since he allowed something terrible to happen.

I still believe inn God but I cannot understand why God sends us so many tests, and so many more to some people than to others. I cannot consider such a God a loving God because I cannot accommodate that in my logical mind.
A post I just posted is on this subject of tests: Why does god need to test us?

 

[Windwalker]

The reasons for such a change are usually found in negative life experiences when a person thinks that there is no God since he allowed something terrible to happen.

Maybe a different way to look at it is this. The explanations offered by the system don't rise to the challenge to meet the demands of life experience. They may work just fine if there is not a real testing of the system, but fail once enough pressure is applied to it. Their leaving may not be a failure of their faith, but rather a failure of the system to provide sufficient support for them. Their becoming an atheist, may actually be a step of faith growing beyond the system itself, such as it was being offered to them.

There is this quote I came across some years ago by Sri Aurobindo I think really provokes the realization that atheism is actually in service to the Divine itself, where the earlier insufficient systems of belief fail to support a modern world in pursuit of the Divine, such as an insistence upon a literal reading of Genesis as a matter of science and cosmology. I see atheism in many cases, as faith itself moving beyond the constraints of outdated religious ideas.

"It is necessary, therefore, that advancing Knowledge should base herself on a clear, pure and disciplined intellect. It is necessary, too, that she should correct her errors sometimes by a return to the restraint of sensible fact, the concrete realities of the physical world. The touch of Earth is always reinvigorating to the son of Earth, even when he seeks a supraphysical Knowledge. It may even be said that the supraphysical can only be really mastered in its fullness – to its heights we can always search– when we keep our feet firmly on the physical. “Earth is His footing,” says the Upanishad whenever it imagines the Self that manifests in the universe. And it is certainly the fact the wider we extend and the surer we make our knowledge of the physical world, the wider and surer becomes our foundation for the higher knowledge, even for the highest, even for the Brahmavidya.

In emerging, therefore, out of the materialistic period of human Knowledge we must be careful that we do not rashly condemn what we are leaving or throw away even one tittle of its gains, before we can summon perceptions and powers that are well grasped and secure, to occupy their place. Rather we shall observe with respect and wonder the work that Atheism had done for the Divine and admire the services that Agnosticism has rendered in preparing the illimitable increase of knowledge. In our world error is continually the handmaid and pathfinder of Truth; for error is really a half-truth that stumbles because of its limitations; often it is Truth that wears a disguise in order to arrive unobserved near to its goal. Well, if it could always be, as it has been in the great period we are leaving, the faithful handmaid, severe, conscientious, clean-handed, luminous within its limits, a half-truth and not a reckless and presumptuous aberration."

Sri Aurobindo, The Life Divine, pg 12,13​

 

[halbhh]

Many people leave Christianity because they cannot find answers to their questions. Or when the dark sides of Christianity are revealed, such as the crimes of Catholic priests, which we will not name. For example, when some terrible things happen in a person's family, someone dies and the person cannot understand why this is happening, they begin to lose faith. I am just also interested in this topic and am writing aт essay on Christianity describing its various aspects. I have read many different papers on the personal relationship of people to religion at Christianity Essay Examples and Research Papers on Samploon.com. Free argumenttive, persuasive and narrative essay samples and have come across stories of people who have ceased to believe. The reasons for such a change are usually found in negative life experiences when a person thinks that there is no God since he allowed something terrible to happen.

I wonder if you see it like me -- that if someone suddenly is verbalizing they doubt God because of the death of someone they know (are close to), as if that death is a final irreversible death, then did they actually believe in God, previous to that death? To me, it would seem the most likely that the death only uncovered or provoked them to act on their real beliefs, such as believing in 'Christianity' as only a kind of tradition or social club or maybe having a few good teachings or such, without a belief in God. I mean if the feeling persists more than just a few days.

 

[Trailblazer]

Their leaving may not be a failure of their faith, but rather a failure of the system to provide sufficient support for them. Their becoming an atheist, may actually be a step of faith growing beyond the system itself, such as it was being offered to them.

I understand what you mean because sadly, I have received little support from anyone in my religious system, and whenever I have an emotional problem I get more kindness and compassion from atheists. It is because those of Abrahamic faiths go by the book that they can offer little compassion because they always have some religious apologetic that comes from their religious beliefs. That is why I never go to Baha'is for help.

 

[Trailblazer]

I wonder if you see it like me -- that if someone suddenly is verbalizing they doubt God because of the death of someone they know (are close to), as if that death is a final irreversible death, then did they actually believe in God, previous to that death? To me, it would seem the most likely that the death only uncovered or provoked them to act on their real beliefs, such as believing in 'Christianity' as only a kind of tradition or social club or maybe having a few good teachings or such, without a belief in God. I mean if the feeling persists more than just a few days.

With all due respect, I know that death is not final in the sense that I am absolutely certain that there is a life after death, but that is of little help when someone dies and I can see them no longer in this world. Telling me I will see them in heaven later is just a way to try to cover for God and the cruel system He set up, where people die and their loved ones are left behind to grieve. If I was not so sure there was a God and I did not fear Him, I would much rather be an atheist.

 

[halbhh]

I understand what you mean because sadly, I have received little support from anyone in my religious system, and whenever I have an emotional problem I get more kindness and compassion from atheists. It is because those of Abrahamic faiths go by the book that they can offer little compassion because they always have some religious apologetic that comes from their religious beliefs. That is why I never go to Baha'is for help.

I hope not only atheists. I know most posts I see here are atheists -- so they will perhaps have the advantage of numbers (3 or 4 to 1?) -- but I hope more than one Christian was kind. If not, please meet some Christians locally in person to find out better what we are like.

 

[halbhh]

With all due respect, I know that death is not final in the sense that I am absolutely certain that there is a life after death, but that is of little help when someone dies and I can see them no longer in this world. Telling me I will see them in heaven later is just a way to try to cover for God and the cruel system He set up, where people die and their loved ones are left behind to grieve. If I was not so sure there was a God and I did not fear Him, I would much rather be an atheist.

Ah, I was asking Leylary56 about her own particular viewpoint from curiosity. Let me relay that I found out from asking a lot of individuals face to face in many places, that any given church some will believe and some will not believe -- it's been that way forever, and was especially that way when I was young (there were a higher proportion of non believers in churches back then, 45 years ago). And today at my own church, there are some that believe and some that don't. So...when in the case of an actual non-believer, someone dies, it can provoke them to reveal their thoughts more openly.

That's not at all talking about those who do believe, which is a whole different case. Also, I don't try to make a blanket rule either. But it may be there are some useful things we can observe. I know for example that many believers have left churches simply because they saw something really wrong in a particular church.

 

[Trailblazer]

I hope not only atheists. I know most posts I see here are atheists -- so they will perhaps have the advantage of numbers (3 or 4 to 1?) -- but I hope more than one Christian was kind. If not, please meet some Christians locally in person to find out better what we are like.

I am not saying that Christians are not kind. Many Christians are kind, but what I was saying is that Christians and Baha'is always have to try to 'cover' for their God because it is their religious belief that no matter what happens to anyone, God is all-loving and beneficent. Telling me that does not help, even if it is true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ah, I was asking Leylary56 about her own particular viewpoint from curiosity. Let me relay that I found out from asking a lot of individuals face to face in many places, that any given church some will believe and some will not believe -- it's been that way forever, and was especially that way when I was young (there were a higher proportion of non believers in churches back then, 45 years ago). And today at my own church, there are some that believe and some that don't. So...when in the case of an actual non-believer, someone dies, it can provoke them to reveal their thoughts more openly.

That's not at all talking about those who do believe, which is a whole different case. Also, I don't try to make a blanket rule either. But it may be there are some useful things we can observe. I know for example that many believers have left churches simply because they saw something really wrong in a particular church.

Are you saying that some Christians who attend Church do not believe in God or an afterlife? That seems really strange to me.

 

[halbhh]

I am not saying that Christians are not kind. Many Christians are kind, but what I was saying is that Christians and Baha'is always have to try to 'cover' for their God because it is their religious belief that no matter what happens to anyone, God is all-loving and beneficent. Telling me that does not help, even if it is true.

I do think everyone grieves the death of loved ones, even with faith we will see them again, because we are grieving losing their company for now, the separation. Even Christ wept at that, or about that, when He came to where Lazarus had died.

 

[halbhh]

Are you saying that some Christians who attend Church do not believe in God or an afterlife? That seems really strange to me.

Tons! But probably less than in the past. In the past, when I was young, it was easy to find many that didn't believe who were in churches, especially the young, having to come because the whole family was attending, but also in some older people. What's happened is that in recent decades many non believers simply left, and therefore the remainder in many churches (not all!) are mostly believers, now, unlike in the past. (not all churches are like that tho. some are more politically driven for instance, so have non believers staying, who just like the politics)

 

[Trailblazer]

I do think everyone grieves the death of loved ones, even with faith we will see them again, because we are grieving losing their company for now, the separation. Even Christ wept at that, or about that, when He came to where Lazarus had died.

But everyone does not grieve with the same intensity or for the same length of time, and not everyone loses the same number of loved ones. Moreover, not everyone has the same social support when they lose a loved one.