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Why Do Conservative Voters Allow Themselves to be Screwed Over by Their Leaders?

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It's easy for you and others to sit there in judgment, as if you think you're smarter than everyone else...


It's easy for you to pretend you can read my mind, but such a belief speaks volumes about you and little about me.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
There are huge disparities of wealth in California. Archive

Or, in places like L.A., just a few miles from ultra-wealthy Beverly Hills or Bel Air, one can find scads of homeless people and many others living in abject poverty, not to mention the working poor who can barely scrape by due to the enormously high standard of living. The numbers don't tell the real story.

Disparities in wealth is not exclusively a California problem -- it's a worldwide problem nowadays.
 

Kuzcotopia

If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
It may be a problem with conservative voters, although from what I can tell, it really wouldn't be that difficult for liberals and Democrats to bring a large segment of the working class over to the left - if they really tried. The trouble is, they're not trying hard enough. The Democrats stopped being the party of the working man and became the party of the non-working man. If they'd focus more on improving the lives of workers in this country, they might actually make some progress. Instead, they chose identity politics which doesn't help workers one iota.

As a result, a lot of these "conservative voters," dumb or not, feel they're going to get screwed either way, so they'll vote based on the agenda and choice that is presented to them by both parties.

The Democrats are no longer the party of FDR, Truman, or even JFK or LBJ anymore. They've actually become far more conservative themselves. Support for labor unions has all but dried up. That happened when Clinton did a bait-and-switch and became an ardent supporter of NAFTA, which alienated a lot of voters in what is now known as the Rust Belt.

A lot of it also has to do with attitude. Quite frankly, a lot of liberals have a certain chip-on-their-shoulder arrogance and condescension in that they think they know what's best for everyone. They need to drop that attitude. The Ivy League, urban sophisticates who think they're soooooo clever and enlightened aren't as smart as they think they are. They need to stop these transparently supercilious games they play and start showing some real empathy for the daily struggles that a lot of people go through. I see this quite often in many debates on politics, even here on RF. This arrogant pretense has to stop, along with the propensity to denigrate and put down others just so they can feel superior and more "enlightened." Some people can see through their faux compassion and phony smiles and see the underlying malice and disdain they have for the lower classes. They may not be as dumb as you think they are.

If what you say is true, that conservatives have gotten dumber over the past 40-50 years, then the same might also be said of liberals. The liberals I remember in my youth used to see things in terms of cause and effect, in not attacking symptoms but getting to the real root of whatever problems we were facing. They're not doing that anymore. Liberals only seem interested in appearances, superficiality, and surface level political correctness that they don't even bother to scratch the surface and try to see what's underneath. Maybe because they're afraid of what they might find.

I've seen these people, living in the lap of luxury, while leisurely lounging around at Starbucks drinking lattes and acting as if they have all the answers. They think they're so cool, hip, and sophisticated while smugly looking down on all the "dummies" and "hicks" who voted for Trump and support conservative candidates. That's how they come across, and yet, they don't spend enough time on introspection and truly looking inside themselves to realize it. They spend too much time judging others that they've lost sight of just how truly out of touch they've become.

Eventually, I see the left and right going further to the extremes. The left's best hope is to try to unite the lower classes by abandoning identity politics and lining up with each solely on the basis of economic class, which would ideally lead to the overthrow of the wealthy elite and bring about total class equality. That's what I would support. But the pro-capitalist neo-liberals who enjoy living in the lap of luxury will never go for that, so they're the greatest obstacle to overcome before anyone can even think of challenging the pro-capitalist neo-conservatives who are backed by the lower classes of middle America.

The lower-class conservatives of middle America also embrace their own form of identity politics which many liberals deride as hateful, homophobic, racist, xenophobic, sexist, etc. who share many of the qualities commonly associated with Trump. They don't seem to care so much about class or social inequities as long as they still feel a useful and integral part of America and get what they feel is "theirs." They really don't care if gay couples get a wedding cake, and they care even less about the plight of immigrants who seek a better life in America. They don't care about feminists breaking through the glass ceiling, and they don't really believe that black lives matter.

These people are full of anger, bitterness, and hatred, and they don't care who they have to (literally) roll over to get a better life for themselves and their own. They're also heavily armed and preparing for armageddon. They may or may not believe in trickle down economics, but they ostensibly believe that by getting rid of certain segments of the population, their own lives will get better. I've run into quite a few of them here in AZ, and I've also known them in my extended family. They're not really that dumb, as they have a lot of practical skills and are very mechanically-minded, even if they can't spell or write very well. They know how to build stuff, they can fix machinery, they can dig tunnels underneath their houses, they know weapons, how to hunt, how to grow food - and many of them feel as if God is on their side. They are immune to judgmental liberals and their tactics of ridicule, and the more that liberals mock them, the more entrenched they become and feel that they're right, down to the very core of their being. Liberals who insulate themselves in their "safe spaces" and gated communities truly have no idea what's going on.

It's easy for you and others to sit there in judgment, as if you think you're smarter than everyone else, but I am truly disheartened and weep for America's future. We are going down a road which may have no turns.

Yes! Thank you for taking the time to say this. The Democratic Party is not liberal from an economic standpoint, and hasn't been for decades.

WhenI was in college, I actually protested NAFTA from the left, because we believed it would hurt American workers. To me, that was the death knell of economic liberalism.

I think the reason everything is "identity" now is because that's the only real differentiation. . . Everyone was tainted by big money, and it takes a political outsider to point it out.

Bernie Sanders was our real hope. He was the only candidate in decades to actually talk about the problems of big money.on the campaign, he consistently said that, when it came to big money from late companies, he "welcomed their contempt."

The good times everyone remembers are times when there was a balance of power between Big Business, Big Goverment, and Big Labor. Now, business bought governent to destroy labor. . . And they're winning.

Wages have been flat since the mid 70s relative to productivity, and we are now in a position where millions of uneducated simply aren't going to find the kind of work that they used to . . . Liberals used to have those votes, and it's been squandered in favor of deals with short-signed corporate interests.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Yes! Thank you for taking the time to say this. The Democratic Party is not liberal from an economic standpoint, and hasn't been for decades.

WhenI was in college, I actually protested NAFTA from the left, because we believed it would hurt American workers. To me, that was the death knell of economic liberalism.

I think the reason everything is "identity" now is because that's the only real differentiation. . . Everyone was tainted by big money, and it takes a political outsider to point it out.

Bernie Sanders was our real hope. He was the only candidate in decades to actually talk about the problems of big money.on the campaign, he consistently said that, when it came to big money from late companies, he "welcomed their contempt."

The good times everyone remembers are times when there was a balance of power between Big Business, Big Goverment, and Big Labor. Now, business bought governent to destroy labor. . . And they're winning.

Wages have been flat since the mid 70s relative to productivity, and we are now in a position where millions of uneducated simply aren't going to find the kind of work that they used to . . . Liberals used to have those votes, and it's been squandered in favor of deals with short-signed corporate interests.

I think your analysis is spot on.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Thank you for proving my point, quite succinctly.

I honestly resent your unfounded allegation that I think I'm smarter than the average conservative. That is a very low thing for you to do. I could just as easily -- and just as wrongly -- accuse you of thinking you are smarter than the average liberal. How would you like that?
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Conservative voters were told (and many of them uncritically swallowed) that the recent tax "reform" bill passed into law would result in higher wages via good old "Trickle Down Economics".

Indeed, shortly after passage of the law, a tiny handful of companies gave out small one time bonuses and even minor wage increases to their low paid workers. That proved to be crumbs enough for some conservative voters who rushed to take those tokens as proof that they were not once again being screwed by their leaders.

Well, some people just never learn. Conservative leaders are no friend of the average man or woman. They are friends only of the ultra rich and wealthy.

So, why do conservative voters again and again and again allow themselves to be screwed over by their leaders? Seriously. What's going on with that? You'd think they'd learn after being screwed over once or twice. But that doesn't seem to be the case. So what's happening?

It's not like every conservative voter in the country is dumb. Many are pretty smart. So why are they seemingly content to be fooled over and over? What's going on there?

Conservative voters have not always had this problem. At least not to the extent they do today. Forty or fifty years ago, if my memory serves me, conservative voters were not so easily and routinely fooled by their leaders. But things have changed quite a bit since then. Why is that?

Few large US companies say they'll use tax savings to boost wages, CNBC survey finds

Oh Look, America! Your Wages Didn’t Increase!

Comments, observations, rants, Faux News lies and misinformation, etc please!
Because Rev. Loves the abuse. Although I would say that is an abuse that is Co-equally loved on the Liberal spectrum. Since it is just a shared love of that abuse, then it's just a disagreement of whom is best at administering it. We vote.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I honestly resent your unfounded allegation that I think I'm smarter than the average conservative. That is a very low thing for you to do. I could just as easily -- and wrongly -- accuse you of thinking you are smarter than the average liberal. How would you like that?

You implied that conservatives are dumb and suggested that they are incapable of learning better. I was speaking from the heart, and I wrote several paragraphs which you totally ignored and only focused on what personally offended you. After all that I wrote, all you gave in return was a throwaway, snarky one-liner, which was what I sort of expected anyway.

You're already accusing me of doing a very low thing, and I'm not really bothered by it, except that you offer far less substance in your post than I offered in mine. That's what bothers me more. I want to see the discussion get deeper into heartfelt issues that affect the very fabric of America, yet all anyone wants to do is try to one-up each other. That's not what I want.

EDIT: And I don't think that I'm "smarter" than the average liberal. I just think that my experience and perspective has given me a different perception of what's actually going on. I see what they write and how they act, in forums just like this one. If you can't see it, then I'm sorry, but I grow weary of it.
 
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idav

Being
Premium Member
True but I see it like this.

The Republicans

Centrist->Conservative->Far Right->alt-Right->Neo-Nazis

The Democrats

Centrist->Liberals->Far Left->alt-Left->Communist

Note how the closer you get to the extremities the more authoritarian they become. This is commonly referred to as Horseshoe theory - Wikipedia. But in my case I can't tell a difference between the extreme left/right anymore. So it almost a full circle instead of a horseshoe. The Nazis and the Commies have more in common than they do differences. :shrug:
Don’t confuse authoritarian left with libertarian left. Libs and libertarian should be pretty much in agreement with social liberty’s(thus the lib part of the word). Auhoritarians do everything to oppose that but has little to do with economic issues. The economic issues have to do with rich vs poor like when you mention communism. Socialism is not necessarily authoritarian, liberties are a different subject.

What I’m mentioning is a common criticism of the horse shoe theory.

See socialist libertarian.
Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
So, why do conservative voters again and again and again allow themselves to be screwed over by their leaders? Seriously. What's going on with that? You'd think they'd learn after being screwed over once or twice. But that doesn't seem to be the case. So what's happening?
I think some of it is disagreement on facts. I'd say they've been hoodwinked; they'd probably disagree with that characterization. A factory worker, say, isn't likely to support an improved minimum wage or strong unions if they buy into the rhetoric that these things will lead the company to close the plant and ship the jobs to China or Mexico.

Other than that, I think the right does have a fair number of people who view themselves as "temporarily disadvantaged millionaires." Even though they're lower middle class right now, they think they'll end up in the upper middle or upper class eventually, so supporting policies that help the upper class at the expense of the lower class is just preparing for the future.

I also think a fair number of the lower-class right wing have bought into the dangerously racist and xenophobic rhetoric around immigration: if they accept it when leaders tell them that the reason they're poor is because of immigrants taking their jobs, or that many immigrants are terrorists who might kill their family... well, the only side proposing a "solution" to this "problem" is the right.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I honestly resent your unfounded allegation that I think I'm smarter than the average conservative. That is a very low thing for you to do. I could just as easily -- and just as wrongly -- accuse you of thinking you are smarter than the average liberal. How would you like that?

Just one other thing: It's not about you, it's about the many. You and I don't matter as individuals. All that matters is the collective whole. That's how I see it.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
You implied that conservatives are dumb and suggested that they are incapable of learning better.

That interpretation is all in your head. I have in more than one post expressed the opinion that the problem is NOT that conservatives are generally dumb (although I'm sure some are -- just like I'm sure there are some dumb liberals). You have either not read those posts with any comprehension or -- far worse -- you have read them and then chosen to misrepresent them. Either way, you have no business wrongly telling me what I think or don't think.

I was speaking from the heart, and I wrote several paragraphs which you totally ignored and only focused on what personally offended you.

I only ignored responding to your post. I read it with interest, and I even agreed with a great deal of it. However, your overall attitude struck me as an unhelpful mix of bitterness and anger. So I passed over commenting on it.

I want to see the discussion get deeper into heartfelt issues that affect the very fabric of America...

I do too, so perhaps we have some common ground here.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Because Rev. Loves the abuse
But I'm not a conservative.
I'm not even allowed to post in their forum.
I'm more liberal than liberals (in a classical, draft dodging, God hating,
gay marriage, multi-cultural, aged hippy, certified progressive, ODD,
ADD, anti-war, gun tote'n, green energy, recycling, unpatriotic, flag
burn'n, organic food, Koran burn'n kinda way).
 
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David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
But I'm not even a conservative.
I'm not even allowed to post in their forum.
I'm more liberal than liberals (in a classical, draft dodging, God hating,
gay marriage, multi-cultural, aged hippy, certified progressive, ODD,
ADD, anti-war, gun tote'n, unpatriotic, flag burn'n, Koran burn'n kinda way).
Oh an oregonian!!!
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It seems that both liberals and conservatives are screwed over by their leaders.
In the US, every politician currently screwing people over is a right-winger. The mainstream political spectrum in the US right now only ranges from center-right to extreme right. The left has no real political influence at the moment and is barely part of the conversation.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
In the US, every politician currently screwing people over is a right-winger. The mainstream political spectrum in the US right now only ranges from center-right to extreme right. The left has no real political influence at the moment and is barely part of the conversation.
What an interesting perspective you have.
 
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