rrobs
Well-Known Member
A lot to chew on here. For now I'll say that there seems to be a lot in common between the Bible and Quran. I've not read the Quran for myself, so I appreciate your input. All in all, I find it interesting that Muslims apparently know more about the nature of Jesus than Christians. That of course has much to do with no (or very few?) Muslims invited to the councils where Jesus was made God.apologies for the late reply you see rrobs when we continue reading beyond chapter 14:16 and chapter 16:7, we find that Jesus predicts the specific details of the arrival and identity of the parakletos. Therefore, according to the context of John 14 & 16 we discover the following facts.
Jesus said the parakletos is a human being:
John 16:13 "He will speak."
John 16:7 "…for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you."
It is impossible that the Comforter be the "Holy Ghost" because the Holy Ghost was present long before Jesus and during his ministry.
John 16:13 Jesus referred to the paraclete as ‘he’ and not ‘it’ seven times, no other verse in the Bible contains seven masculine pronouns. Therefore, paraclete is a person, not a ghost.
Jesus is called a parakletos:
"And if any man sin, we have an advocate (parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (1 John 2:1)
Here we see that parakletos is a physical and human intercessor.
The Divinity of Jesus a later innovation
Jesus was not accepted as divine until the Council of Nicea, 325 CE, but everyone, except Jews, agree he was a prophet of God, as indicated by the Bible:
Matthew 21:11 "...This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee."
Luke 24:19 "...Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people."
Jesus prayed to God for another parakletos:
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another parakletos."
Jesus describes the function of the other Parakletos:
John 16:13 "He will guide you into all the truth."
I know it maybe irrelevant for you that I quote the Quran but the imformation in there are very important, you see God says in the Quran of Muhammad: "O mankind! The Messenger has now come unto you with the truth from your Lord: believe, then, for your own good!..." (Quran 4:170)
and then you can read in John 16:14 "He will glorify Me."
The Quran brought by Muhammad glorifies Jesus: "…who shall become known as the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, of great honor in this world and in the life to come, and [shall be] of those who are drawn near unto God." (Quran 3:45)
Muhammad also glorified Jesus: "Whoever testifies that none deserves worship except God, who has no partner, and that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger, and that Jesus is the servant of God, His Messenger, and His Word which He bestowed in Mary, and a spirit created from Him, and that Paradise is true, and that Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise, according to his deeds." (Saheeh Al-Bukhari, Saheeh Muslim)
John 16:8 "he will convince the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment."
The Quran announces: "Indeed, they have disbelieved who say, ‘God is the Christ, son of Mary’ - seeing that the Christ [himself] said, ‘O Children of Israel! Worship God [alone], who is my Lord as well as your Lord.’ ‘Indeed, whoever ascribes divinity to any being beside God, unto him will God deny paradise, and his goal shall be the fire: and there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers!’" (Quran 5:72)
John 16:13 "he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak."
The Quran says of Muhammad: "Neither does he speak out of his own desire: that [which he conveys to you] is but [a divine] inspiration with which he is being inspired." (Quran 53:3-4)
John 14:26 "and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
The words of the Quran: "…while the Messiah had said, ‘O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’" (Quran 5:72)
…reminds people of the first and greatest command of Jesus they have forgotten:
"The first of all the commandments is, ‘Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord.’" (Mark 12:29)
John 16:13 "and He will disclose to you what is to come."
The Quran states: "That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal, [O Muhammad], to you…" (Quran 12:102)
Hudhaifa, a disciple of Prophet Muhammad, tells us: "The Prophet once delivered a speech in front of us wherein he left nothing but mentioned everything that would happen till the Hour (of Judgment)." (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)
John 14:16 "that he may abide with you for ever."
…meaning his original teachings will remain forever. Muhammad was God’s last prophet to humanity. His teachings are perfectly preserved. He lives in the hearts and minds of his adoring followers who worship God in his exact imitation. No man, including Jesus or Muhammad, has an eternal life on earth. Parakletos is not an exception either. This cannot be an allusion to the Holy Ghost, for present day creed of the Holy Ghost did not exist until the Council of Chalcedon, in 451 CE, four and half centuries after Jesus.
John 14:17 "he will be the spirit of truth"
…meaning he will be true prophet, see 1 John 4: 1-3.
John 14:17 "the world neither sees him..."
Many people in the world today do not know Muhammad.
John 14:17 "...nor knows him"
Fewer people recognize the real Muhammad, God’s Prophet of Mercy.
John 14:26 "the Advocate (parakletos)" Muhammad will be the advocate of humanity at large and of sinful believers on Judgment Day:
People will look for those who can intercede on their behalf to God to reduce the distress and suffering on Day of Judgment. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus will excuse themselves.
Then they will come to our Prophet and he will say, "I am the one who is able." So he will intercede for the people in the Great Plain of Gathering, so judgment may be passed. This is the ‘Station of Praise’ God promises Him in the Quran:
"…It may be that your Lord will raise you to Station of Praise (the honor of intercession on the Day of Resurrection)" (Quran 17:79)
Prophet Muhammad said:
"My intercession will be for those of my nation who committed major sins." (Al-Tirmidhi)
"I shall be the first intercessor in Paradise." (Saheeh Muslim)
Some Muslim scholars suggest what Jesus actually said in Aramaic represents more closely the Greek word periklytos which means the ‘admired one.’ In Arabic the word ‘Muhammad’ means the ‘praiseworthy, admired one.’ In other words, periklytos is "Muhammad" in Greek. And there are two strong reasons in its support. First, due to several documented cases of similar word substitution in the Bible, it is quite possible that both words were contained in the original text but were dropped by a copyist because of the ancient custom of writing words closely packed, with no spaces in between. In such a case the original reading would have been, "and He will give you another comforter (parakletos), the admirable one (periklytos)." Second, we have the reliable testimony of at least four Muslim authorities from different eras who ascribed ‘admired, praised one’ as a possible meaning of the Greek or Syriac word to Christians scholars
The following are some who attest that the Paraclete is indeed an allusion to Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him:
The First Witness: Anselm Turmeda (1352/55-1425 CE), a priest and Christian scholar, was a witness to the prophecy. After accepting Islam he wrote a book, "Tuhfat al-arib fi al-radd ‘ala Ahl al-Salib."
The Second Witness: Abdul-Ahad Dawud, the former Rev. David Abdu Benjamin Keldani, BD, a Roman Catholic priest of the Uniate-Chaldean sect. After accepting Islam, he wrote the book, ‘Muhammad in the Bible.’ He writes in this book: "There is not the slightest doubt that by "Periqlyte," Prophet Muhammad, i.e. Ahmad, is intended."
The Third Witness: A synopsis of the life of Muhammad Asad has already been given above. Commenting on the verse:
"…an apostle who shall come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad" (Quran 61:6)
…where Jesus predicts the coming of Muhammad, Asad explains that the word Parakletos:
"…is almost certainly a corruption of Periklytos (‘the Much-Praised’), an exact Greek translation of the Aramaic term or name Mawhamana. (It is to be borne in mind that Aramaic was the language used in Palestine at the time of, and for some centuries after, Jesus and was thus undoubtedly the language in which the original - now lost - texts of the Gospels were composed.) In view of the phonetic closeness of Periklytos and Parakletos it is easy to understand how the translator - or, more probably, a later scribe - confused these two expressions. It is significant that both the Aramaic Mawhamana and the Greek Periklytos have the same meaning as the two names of the Last Prophet, Muhammad and Ahmad, both of which are derived from the Hebrew verb hamida (‘he praised’) and the Hebrew noun hamd (‘praise’)."
Broadly speaking, there is the giver, God, the Holy Spirit, and there is the gift He gives us, holy spirit (note capital letter of the former and small letters of the latter - that is my addition since all letters in the original texts were capitalized. Still, I believe it communicates God's intended meaning). The giver gives us what He is, i.e. spirit. The giver and the gift must be kept separate for a full understanding. While the giver, the Holy Spirit (God), has of course been around since before the beginning, the gift of holy spirit was first given on the day of Pentecost. Well, there are some exceptions to this. There were various folks in the OT that were given the gift but it was conditional (good behavior) and for a definite period of time (until problem solved, etc). Born again people have it without condition and forever. It is because of the work Jesus did, not our own work.
I believe it is 1 Peter 1:23 that tells us we are born again of incorruptible seed. While many Christians want to change the meaning of "incorruptible," the word nonetheless means it won't corrupt, hence it is permanent. I always ask unbelieving Christians why they feel the need to complete the work Jesus did. Do they not believe Jesus was able to finish it despite the fact that his last words were, "it is finished." Then again it is not surprising since they also want to change the meaning of the word "one." I also like to ask those who don't give Jesus full credit for their redemption how many sins they get before it's too late. Never, not even once, have I gotten a reply to that question.
Two thousand years of tradition is hard to shake off I guess. Still, I'm no genius but at least I can read and understand simple words such as "one" and "incorruptible."
Take care
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