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Featured Why Didn't the Holy Spirit Know?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by rrobs, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    A lot to chew on here. For now I'll say that there seems to be a lot in common between the Bible and Quran. I've not read the Quran for myself, so I appreciate your input. All in all, I find it interesting that Muslims apparently know more about the nature of Jesus than Christians. That of course has much to do with no (or very few?) Muslims invited to the councils where Jesus was made God.

    Broadly speaking, there is the giver, God, the Holy Spirit, and there is the gift He gives us, holy spirit (note capital letter of the former and small letters of the latter - that is my addition since all letters in the original texts were capitalized. Still, I believe it communicates God's intended meaning). The giver gives us what He is, i.e. spirit. The giver and the gift must be kept separate for a full understanding. While the giver, the Holy Spirit (God), has of course been around since before the beginning, the gift of holy spirit was first given on the day of Pentecost. Well, there are some exceptions to this. There were various folks in the OT that were given the gift but it was conditional (good behavior) and for a definite period of time (until problem solved, etc). Born again people have it without condition and forever. It is because of the work Jesus did, not our own work.

    I believe it is 1 Peter 1:23 that tells us we are born again of incorruptible seed. While many Christians want to change the meaning of "incorruptible," the word nonetheless means it won't corrupt, hence it is permanent. I always ask unbelieving Christians why they feel the need to complete the work Jesus did. Do they not believe Jesus was able to finish it despite the fact that his last words were, "it is finished." Then again it is not surprising since they also want to change the meaning of the word "one." I also like to ask those who don't give Jesus full credit for their redemption how many sins they get before it's too late. Never, not even once, have I gotten a reply to that question.

    Two thousand years of tradition is hard to shake off I guess. Still, I'm no genius but at least I can read and understand simple words such as "one" and "incorruptible."

    Take care
     
    #261 rrobs, Apr 22, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  2. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is called the second Adam. I believe that is because they are the only two people who had their beginning as a direct result of God creating. He created Adam in His image, and He created a seed in the womb of Mary. The rest of us are a product of seed/egg combination for which it is not necessary for God to create each time a child is born. He set the biology in motion of course, but once he did that it was self sustaining and here we all are.

    In that sense, I believe that Adam and Jesus can be called a son of God in a literal way. The rest of the sons of God are, as I think you said, in a more figurative or spiritual sense. Christians are born again of God's seed, but it is not like the seed we got from our earthly father. The former is incorruptible, whereas the latter is corruptible, i.e. we will all die and rot in the ground. That is found in 1 Peter 1:23.

    Yes, of course I believe Jesus died on the cross. But anybody can die. The real trick with Jesus is his being raised from among the dead to live forevermore. That is when the death that Adam introduced was finally conquered. We still have to wait for Jesus' second coming to see the fullness of that, but it will be coming. Otherwise, as Paul said, Christians are the most to be pitied that ever lived. I know I'd be majorly disappointed if I were to find out that I will not be raised and given a body like the risen Jesus' body. I'm counting on that coming to pass. I'm totally confident I won't be disappointed in that regard.
     
    #262 rrobs, Apr 22, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  3. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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    hey rrobs sorry I know was a lot of informations there, it s just i couldn't stop :) I would really invite you to read the Quran it is a book from God in Arabic descended by the angel Gabriel to the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him, in there God confirm the books he sent down on Moses and Jesus and Abraham and David peace be upon them all, you will also find a chapter called marry and a chapter about Jesus family . you can find the Quran in English however you will not find a translation because you cant translate it but its an explanation and interpretation in any language you want. I hope you will accept that invitation and read it. :)
     
  4. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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  5. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    When Jesus said, ", My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" he was quoting Psalms 22:1. Read the whole Psalm and you will get a better idea of what was going through his mind. Suffice it to say that in the end Jesus felt anything but abandoned.

    Is there no record in the Quran where some character lamented his situation, only to realize in the end that God was not about to abandon him in their time of need? People have doubts, but if they realize God is their helper, the doubts quickly evaporate. Again, check out the whole of Psalm 22. On a whole, it is anything but a resignation to the evil which may have befallen someone. It is a song of God's ability to deliver. I have no problem with that. In fact, I rather like it.

    Contradictions? I told a friend I ate a steak that evening. I told another friend I had a salad that same evening. Is that a contradiction? Could it not be that I actually had a salad AND a steak that night? Why not? I just told one friend part of the story and the other friend another part of the same story.

    Many so-called contradictions will be cleared up if we realize that God told Matthew to write one part of the story and Mark to write another part of the same story. Also, it is easy to confuse two similar incidents by taking the narrative as describing one and the same story. An example is Jesus grand entrance into Jerusalem just before his crucifixion. It is assumed that there was one such incident and that the different "versions" of that one entrance contradict each other. If the scriptures are really worked, it is easy to see that Jesus made two such entrances into Jerusalem on two different days. All you have to do is check your premise and then see exactly what the scriptures say.

    Another example is those who were crucified with Jesus. One gospel says one of the guys reviled Jesus whereas another gospel says both reviled him. That would be a problem if we held to the tradition of 2 others crucified with him. Could it be tradition is not the authority on the scriptures, that there were in fact 4 others crucified with Jesus?

    On another note. I've given you many scriptures. I was hoping you might address those scriptures before moving on to totally different subject. For example, why are we talking about whether or not Jesus actually died? Also, any comment on the difference between the giver and the gift? You just keep firing new things at me without addressing what I've already said. Not to criticize, but that does seem to be what's happening here.
     
  6. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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    Apologies I didn't intend to jump to another subject, I just thought talking about what christian call Jesus death since you brought the subject, and to be honest I havent thought there was a need to answer to the comment about the gift and the giver thought of it as a remark from you, fair enough let me go back to it slowly and answer.

    I read the bible in Greek, in Hebrew Arabic and English and I read the Psalms and the 4 Gospels the last words of Jesus on the cross are very confusing. First, there are four different versions of the Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. This raises major questions about the accuracy of recording a Holy Book. These verses are part of a Christian doctrine of divine inspiration. If God had inspired these four gospel writers, why did God inspire them to record different words? These verses are not just different words, but totally different concepts. It seems that the closest statement should be the one that Jesus said in his own Aramaic language:

    "Jesus cried with aloud voice saying Eli, Eli, lama sabachtani? That is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46, & Mark 15:34, though it is Eloi instead of Eli in Mark.) Which means God, God, why have you abandoned me?

    It is hard to believe that Jesus said that God abandoned him. There are three possibilities:

    - He said that. Then, why did the son of God think that his father abandoned him? Jesus told the disciples that he would die and rise from the dead in three days. He knew that he would die and be resurrected, so how can that be called abandonment? If he is the son of God that came to save humanity with his blood, so how can that be called abandonment? If he knew his mission in life, so how can that be called abandonment? This statement simply contradicts all the New Testament. Many Christian scholars have the same trouble justifying this statement.

    - He did not say that. This means that Matthew and Mark were not accurate, and God did not inspire the Gospels, because God would not allow any inaccuracies.

    - The man on the cross was not Jesus! This may seem at first sight as an unreasonable idea. But if we know that the same sentence, word for word, exists in the songs of David, Psalm 22.1, one may be tempted to suggest that the man on the Cross was a Jew asking God for help from his Old Testament.

    It is interesting to note that Christian theologians introduced a branch called Apologetics to provide answers to criticisms against Christian beliefs. Apologetics started early in Christian history to resolve many contradictions in the New Testament. It is no secret that the word Apologetics came from the Latin word "apology", and the Greek origin "Logos." Some apologists suggest that Jesus said all the above versions. This is in spite of the fact that no single Gospel included all the four versions. Analyzing the Apologetics reasoning of the above four versions of Jesus′ last word does not present a satisfactory argument. Also, recent Apologetics advocates that historical and archeological evidences support early Christian history. That is a fair statement. However, historical and archeological evidences support the historical Jesus only, and cannot be extended to support the Christian belief about the nature of Jesus. In the New Testament, Jesus always presented himself as the "son of man." He never said that he was the son of god. Forty years later, Paul made him the "Son of God," and in the first Ecumenical Council of Churches, 325 AD, Athanasius made Jesus of the same Divine "substance" as that of God.

     
  7. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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    God tell us the real story of Jesus, before his birth after birth and when he raised him to him and when he will be back, there is a record of people trying to Kill him, but as i said the story is there for you to read. God never abandon his messengers.
     
  8. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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    Well it`s a big difference you are talking to me about salad and steak and I am talking to you about what is supposed to be the word of God , here we are talking about the base of Christianity, If lets say the Quraan had been changed over the century I would have doubts and ask why we are changing the Word of God or even contradict it. So its bigger than a salad and steak.

    I m not going to quote the verses of the Quran but something similar in the bible : “Ye shall not add unto the word which I (God) command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2)

    Let me start from the beginning. No Biblical scholar on this earth will claim that the Bible was written by Jesus himself. They all agree that the Bible was written after the departure of Jesus peace be upon him by his followers. Dr. W Graham Scroggie of the Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, a prestigious Christian evangelical mission, says:

    “..Yes, the Bible is human, although some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men and bear in their style the characteristics of men….It is Human, Yet Divine,”

    Another Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says:

    “...Not so the New Testament...There is condensation and editing; there is choice reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the church behind the authors. They represent experience and history...”

    “It is well known that the primitive Christian Gospel was initially transmitted by word of mouth and that this oral tradition resulted in variant reporting of word and deed. It is equally true that when the Christian record was committed to writing it continued to be the subject of verbal variation. Involuntary and intentional, at the hands of scribes and editors.”

    “Yet, as a matter of fact, every book of the New Testament with the exception of the four great Epistles of St. Paul is at present more or less the subject of controversy, and interpolations are asserted even in these.”

    Dr. Lobegott Friedrich Konstantin Von Tischendorf, one of the most adamant conservative Christian defenders of the Trinity was himself driven to admit that:

    “[the New Testament had] in many passages undergone such serious modification of meaning as to leave us in painful uncertainty as to what the Apostles had actually written”

    After listing many examples of contradictory statements in the Bible, Dr. Frederic Kenyon says:

    “Besides the larger discrepancies, such as these, there is scarcely a verse in which there is not some variation of phrase in some copies [of the ancient manuscripts from which the Bible has been collected]. No one can say that these additions or omissions or alterations are matters of mere indifference”

    Throughout this book you will find countless other similar quotations from some of Christendom’s leading scholars. Let us suffice with these for now.

    Christians are, in general, good and decent people, and the stronger their convictions the more decent they are. This is attested to in the noble Quran:

    “...and nearest among them (men) in love to the believers will you find those who say ‘we are Christians’: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. And when they listen to the revelation received by the messenger (Muhammad), you will see their eyes overflowing with tears for they recognize the truth: They pray: ‘Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.’” (Quran 5:82-83)

    All biblical “versions” of the Bible prior to the revised version of 1881 were dependent upon the “Ancient Copies” (those dating between five to six hundred years after Jesus). The revisers of the Revised Standard Version (RSV) 1952 were the first biblical scholars to have access to the “MOST ancient copies” which date fully three to four hundred years after Christ. It is only logical for us to concur that the closer a document is to the source the more authentic it is. see by yourself what is the opinion of Christendom with regard to the most revised version of the Bible (revised in 1952 and then again in 1971):

    “The finest version which has been produced in the present century” - (Church of England newspaper)

    “A completely fresh translation by scholars of the highest eminence” - (Times literary supplement)

    “The well loved characteristics of the authorized version combined with a new accuracy of translation” - (Life and Work)

    “The most accurate and close rendering of the original” - (The Times)

    The publishers themselves (Collins) mention on page 10 of their notes:

    “This Bible (RSV) is the product of thirty two scholars assisted by an advisory committee representing fifty cooperating denominations”

    Let me also quote to you what these thirty two Christian scholars of the highest eminence backed by fifty cooperating Christian denominations have to say about the Authorized Version (AV), or as it is better known, the King James Version (KJV). In the preface of the RSV 1971 we find the following:

    “...Yet the King James Version has GRAVE DEFECTS..”

    They go on to caution us that:

    “...That these defects are SO MANY AND SO SERIOUS as to call for revision”

    I can go on and on and on to be honest....
     
  9. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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    The Giver is God the almighty and the Gift is What God sent upon us our sustenance, Jesus is a gift Abraham is a gift Mohammed is a gift Moses is a gift, your heath is a gift, everything we have is a Gift. this is how I see it.
     
  10. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    So you discount any suggestion that Jesus had the whole of Psalm 22 on his mind, not just the first verse? Again, as a man, I'm sure Jesus had the same doubts as any man. Nonetheless, when all was said and done, he, like the entirety of Psalm 22 understood that God would never abandon those who believe his Words. People who walk with God may get discouraged at times, but they stay with the promises of God's words and all is made clear again. In other words, I may think God has abandoned me at times, but it always turns out that I was dead wrong.

    I might remind you that Jesus was tempted in every point just like you and I. Have you ever doubted your God? I trust you would admit to that. Well, so did Jesus. But in the end he came back to the truth as revealed in the whole of Psalm 22. God did not abandon him.

    Sure, Jesus asked God to take the cup from him, in fact he asked 3 times. What's wrong with that? He was a man and I can understand any man not wanting to go through with what lay ahead. So what? The main thing is, he went through with it, not because he wanted to, but because God wanted him to do it in order to redeem the rest of us poor ********. That's the epitome of beautiful if you ask me.

    I've never felt the need to apologize for God's words. I tell people to the best of my ability what the scriptures say and they can take it or leave it. I am not responsible for what others might believe.

    If one begins their study of the scriptures with the preconceived idea that they are full of contradictions, they will surely find them. On the other hand, if one begins their study with the preconceived idea that God's words are purified 7 times over, then any contradiction becomes an "apparent" contradiction. Perhaps the contradiction lies with the translation, or it may lie with one's own understanding. In either case, it is possible to clear up all those apparent contradictions. I already told you one principle, i.e. God inspired different men to write different aspects of the same event. I also suggested that many contradictions arise when it is assumed that two similar, though separate, events are made to be the same event.

    If God really purified his words 7 times, we ought to give equal care to reading them.
     
  11. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    It is no secret that most of the seminaries teach future pastors that the scriptures are not from God, that they are full of contradiction and falsehoods, that they were not really written by men under the inspiration of God, that they are all men's ideas, so it is no surprise that all those "scholars" would poo-poo them. That's their prerogative, but I don't have to buy into their teachings and I don't.

    As I said before, I believe God gave us words that are purified 7 time over. Gee, who should I believe, the so-called experts or the scriptures? I know, I choose the scriptures! It works rather grandly for me. I know it would for anybody who abandons the experts in favor of the scriptures, but it's all up to each one to decide.
     
  12. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    Well, you appear to be reading a lot into the words Jesus said to his disciples towards the end. Read Acts chapter 1 and it becomes apparent that he was telling them they would receive the gift of holy spirit. He was not talking about health, himself, or everything God gives us. I'm not sure the scriptures called any of those things a gift (I may be wrong on that but it wouldn't matter in the present discussion anyway). He was talking about a very specific thing and that thing is revealed in vivid technicolor in the second chapter. It's hard to miss. They were baptized in holy spirit and went in one fell swoop from being afraid behind closed doors to boldly proclaiming the the Jews killed their redeemer (of course they also told those same Jews how to get saved and put all of that behind them). Something sure changed!
     
  13. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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    My God is your God, the one who created you and created me and to whom you and me will return, and to be honest I never doubted him once, if Good happen we thank him and if bad happen we thank him and bear in patience.

    what can I tell you rrob, my invitation for you to read the Quran if you wish of course is open, you will find whats in the old testament and new one and more. For me Jesus peace be upon him was a great and powerful prophet, He was sent to the people of Israel and was the last prophet from their lineage, he predicted the arrival of Mohammed peace be upon him, God mention Jesus so many times in the Quran, fact is if a muslim say i dont believe in Jesus he is not muslim. I would give my life for him, And i pray God to be alive when he will send him back to see him because Muslims are waiting for him, there is a big Prophecy about that and he is going to play a big role.

    for my part I enjoyed our debate, I shared with you what I know and I want to thank you for what you shared with me and for your time.
     
  14. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    I too have certainly enjoyed our conversation and I feel as though I've learned a few things. For that, I thank you.

    I do have one more question if you don't mind: does the Quran speak of a redeemer that has taken away the sins of the believer, or is it up to each individual to make themselves worthy? I did start reading parts of the Quran, but if there is such a thing as a redeemer like the Biblical Jesus, I would like to see what it says about it if you could tell me where it is written. I won't debate your answer, I'm just curious to know.

    Take care
     
  15. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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    Hey rrobs was my pleasure, It is a very good question, To answer to you question correctly, Do you mean is there a prophecy of someone else coming in future time to save humanity from corruption, or you want to know if there is someone who will take and bear the sins of human kind.? because rrobs regarding the sins taken away by someone else God said

    Say, "Is it other than Allah I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? And every soul earns not [blame] except against itself, and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ." (Surah al-An’am:164)

    And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And if a heavily laden soul calls [another] to [carry some of] its load, nothing of it will be carried, even if he should be a close relative. You can only warn those who fear their Lord unseen and have established prayer. And whoever purifies himself only purifies himself for [the benefit of] his soul. And to Allah is the [final] destination. (Surah Fathir:18)

    What Islam does have, however, is the intercession of the Prophet (peace be upon him) for all humanity, and the intercession of other prophets, the pious, and our good deeds.

    We also believe that a man will come called Al Mehdi just before Jesus peace be upon him and both will meet when Jesus peace be upon him come back.

    I don`t know if I answered your question but please feel free to debate with me :) ask me questions I will be more than happy to answer, I am also happy that you are reading the Quran

    was your question related to Salvation?

     
  16. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply. You sort of answered my question, but I'm still a bit unclear.

    As you probably know, the scriptures say that sin entered the world when Adam disobeyed God, and death came by sin. It's not the individual sins that one commits that dooms them, it is the sin nature they inherited from Adam. Dogs bark, cats meow, cows moo, and people sin. Nature is nature. Because of the sin nature, people can't help but sin, but as I said, it is really the nature of sin itself that dooms people. Their particular sins are just a byproduct of that nature.

    Because of the virgin birth, Jesus didn't share the exact same nature as the rest of us. His seed came from God, not from Adam. You may recall Genesis talking at some length about seed. Basically, it said that an apple seed produces and apple tree, an oak seed produces and oak tree, a cat seed produces a cat, etc. Well we all share the seed with Adam polluted. I believe it is 1 Peter 1:23 that speaks of corruptible seed. Again, that is why we die.

    While Jesus started out with pure blood (lamb without blemish, innocent blood), it was up to him to keep himself that way. Adam also started with innocent blood, but it was lost when he disobeyed. It became corrupt and that is what we all inherited. On the other hand, Jesus, by his own free will, never once disobeyed God. He did so at great cost to himself. We have already discussed his reticence to die on the cross. Nonetheless, he dismissed his own desire in favor of doing God's will regardless of his personal desires.

    According to the scriptures there is nothing a person can do to change their sin nature and thus avoid death, which the scriptures declare to be an enemy. The devil legally purchased all mankind when he tricked Adam into disobeying. According to the scriptures, It is a falsehood to think God is in charge. He relinquished that privilege when he gave dominion to Adam. Adam in turn was free to relinquish that dominion to the devil and that is what he did. We, as well as this current creation belong to him, not to God. The devil legally owns all people and there is nothing anyone can do to free themselves from his control. However, if God was able to convince someone to die without ever having committed sin, that person would conquer death and regain control over the creation away from the devil. It is as though we were in the devil's pawnshop and Jesus redeemed us back to freedom. We don't see that yet, but it will come. God will burn every atom of this creation and make a whole new creation free from sin and death. That is the hope of every Christian. I might point out that we will not be in heaven but on the new earth. That is where Jesus will be and Thessalonians tells us we will be with him.

    The point of all of this: man is doomed and there is nothing he can do to save himself, so we needed a redeemer. To be saved Romans 10:9-10 tell us we must confess Jesus as lord (our boss) and believe God raised him from the dead. At that moment we are born from above, not with the original corruptible seed, but with incorruptible seed, by the word of God. Christians receive the gift of holy spirit, which the scriptures declare to be a token of our guaranteed inheritance. Jesus is the one who conquered death and redeemed us from it's power. Our salvation does not depend on what we do, but on what he did.

    Hopefully that is enough background for you to answer the following questions. Again, I won't debate your answer. It's just that you seem to have a good knowledge of the Quran, so if you could help me see if the answers are in the Quran and where, it would save me time and I could get right to the heart of the matter. I guess I'm being a bit lazy, but your help would be appreciated.
    1. Does Islam have a redeemer like that, or is it up to each believer to make themselves worthy, to buy themselves back from death?
    2. If it is up to the individual believer's behavior, is there a certain limit of sins they commit before it's too late?
    3. Is it possible to be assured of one's future state in paradise, or do they have to wait and see?
    Thank you my friend.
     
  17. rrobs

    rrobs Well-Known Member

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    Upon a third careful reading of your reply, I think I understand that it is up to each individual to make themselves worthy. I understand they do have an intercessor but the intercessor, in an of himself, does not guarantee anything. I'm sorry for the other reply to your answer. I should have read more and written less. :)
     
  18. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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    Hey rrobs no problem at all allow me just to add that In Islam, the key to salvation is the belief in and worship of the One True, Unique and Perfect God and obedience to His commandments, the same message brought by all Prophets. Islam preaches that a person must work righteousness and avoid sin to attain Paradise, and that if one sins, that they seek repentance for it from their heart. Through this and the Mercy and Grace of God, they will enter Paradise. Islam does not deem that all those before the advent of Muhammad are doomed to Hell, but rather that each nation was sent a Prophet by the same One God, and it was upon them to follow His commandments. Those who have not heard of the message are not held liable to follow Islam, and God will deal with them with His Perfect Justice on the Day of Judgment. Infants and children of both Muslims and disbelievers alike are in enjoyment in Paradise upon death. Due to the infinite Justice of God:

    “No one laden with burdens can bear another’s burden. And We never punish (people) until We have sent (to them) a Messenger (to give warning).” (Quran 17:15)

    I will now answer the questions but I dont want you to be lazy I still want you to read it there is 114 chapters, You can do it :)
     
  19. Duncan

    Duncan Member

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  20. Duncan

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    Religion:
    Islam
    To answer the question there is no limit of sins, I mean we human sin everyday and islam teach us to repent everyday and avoid to sin and if we fall into that we must repent immediately, I like this saying of the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him “Were you not to commit sins, Allah would create people who would commit sins and ask for forgiveness and He would forgive them.”

    And God said: And those who, when they commit an immorality or wrong themselves [by transgression], remember Allah and seek forgiveness for their sins—and who can forgive sins except Allah?—and [who] do not persist in what they have done while they know. Qur’an 3:135

    the sins are categorize into two category the major one like associating someone else with God, killing, and the minor one, If you repend and do Good and You die, God will forgive you, However If You die disbelieving in him and in what he sent down then its too late.

    [For such is the state of the disbelievers], until, when death comes to one of them, he says, “My Lord, send me back that I might do righteousness in that which I left behind.” No! It is only a word he is saying; and behind them is a barrier until the Day they are resurrected. Qur’an 23:99-100

    So basically dont sin, if you do repent, do good follow the command of God pray your prayer fast you month Give to charity, believe in the prophets the books the day of judgement and have trust in God that he is the only one who forgive, once the soul leave the body repentance is too late, I hope I answered to the question.
     
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