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Featured Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SeekingAllTruth, Dec 25, 2020.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The other explanations for the crucifixion of Jesus are questionable. Does Hebrews 5:7 deny the Crucifixion of Jesus? | carm.org

     
  2. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Judges let criminals go unpunished all the time. It's called clemency. A mother is guilty of shoplifting but she has a 1-year old child to take care of. She was shoplifting food to feed her child. She's guilty but do you actually think the judge is going to send her to jail if there's nobody to take care of the child? The judge will likely issue her a warning not to do it again and let her go. God can do the same thing. We are actually better than God because we have the capacity to forgive without demanding payment in return. God is NOT capable of such acts of mercy.
     
  3. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    How do you know Jesus sweat blood? Because Luke says he did? Luke wasn't even there. Nobody was there.
     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    A judge would not be just if he let a murderer evade punishment. God is against even the smallest sin.

    We can forgive others but we cannot atone for others.

    Even little sins harm us and God.
     
  5. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    God never told me little sins harm Him. He never told me sin period harms Him. If God is that fragile that He's harmed by a little cuss word He doesn't deserve to be called God.
     
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  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Even little sins hurt us because they separate us from God.
     
  7. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    The answer is there in the story if you look at it from a Jewish perspective. Remember Jesus was Jewish, and this miracle of eternal life and salvation, like all of his miracles, can be best understood from that context. I'm not going to give you the answer, because I don't think you will believe me. However I'll give you the clues to this riddle. And if you ever want to take a guess at the answer, feel free to let me know.

    "Why would Jesus die for our iniquities if not to take our place?"

    It wasn't substitution. A plausible alternative explanation can be found from the following:
    • Jesus promised his disciples eternal life
    • Jesus promised his disciples salvation from sin
    • Jesus needed to die at the appropriate time
    • Jesus made himself into the pascal lamb offering
    • The requirement for eternal life is described in John 6:54
    edit to add: Jesus doesn't need to be God to accomplish this miracle.
     
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    If there was no penalty it wouldn't have a meaning that something is against the law things are against the law because of order. Even little mistakes go against God's laws.
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    A judge can't always be clement, because people go to jail sometimes.
     
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Then there was no need for Jesus's crucifixion.

    I do wish that you would make up your mind.
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus sweating blood doesn't contradict science. Why did Jesus sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane? | GotQuestions.org

     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The fact that they refer only to Malachi 3 1 and not he rest of the chapter. It clearly is not about Jesus in context. All sorts of things mentioned there that Jesus did not do.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The prophet Isaiah in the Old Testament mentioned the holiness of God. The Holiness of God

     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Okay, a penalty is fine. The problem is that your God is immoral. It is immoral to give a punishment far in excess of the supposed crime.
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    If Jesus was just a man it was suffering. But then he was not God. If he was God then is was all for show.

    This is why you need to make up your mind about Jesus.
     
  17. Batya

    Batya Always Forward

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    Yeshua's death actually had less to do with "payment," and more to do with reconciliation. God made a covenant that he would be our God, we broke the covenant (which he knew would happen), therefore in his mercy He already had in place the way for us to return. Just like the passover lamb, Yeshua's blood redeemed us from bondage (caused by breaking the commandments), in order that we might return to God. Here did this all in great mercy because he knew that, due to our humanity, we wouldn't be able to keep the commandments perfectly, therefore instead of condemning us to a permanent state of separation, he bore the penalty himself.
    Also, God did forgive without demanding payment, for example the many times he relented of his anger towards Israel when they sinned against him in the wilderness.
    We are all guilty according to the bible, yet he offers life and forgiveness in exchange for death and condemnation.
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Even if someone would lie about eternal life (and its questionable Jesus had mental illness), why would he choose to die to satisfy a belief in his followers about salvation from sin? Jesus died to save his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21) not to be popular. Desire & Suffering: Buddhism Vs Christianity | Reasons for Jesus

     
  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God being omnipotent and omniscient doesn't take away from his just nature. What does it mean that God is love? | GotQuestions.org

     
  20. Batya

    Batya Always Forward

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    Jesus' death was not a punishment.
     
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