why did they want to crucify jesus

[psychoslice]

The story goes that Jesus came here to be crucified, he didn't come to party.

 

[free spirit]

HARIKRIH QUOTED; "1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
You have forgotten to tell the full story; for we read in 1Corinthians 15:42-47, "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
43 it is sown in dishonour it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body,
45 So also it is written. “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual.
47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven."

 

[free spirit]

So I was searching the internet for an answer to this question.

Why there was a need to crucify Jesus peace be upon him.

Couldn't they just have just killed him.


According to what I found, it all begins with Jesus peace be upon him saying that he came to fulfill the law.

According to the law, everything that is crucified would be cursed.

Deuteronomy 21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

So being able to crucify Jesus peace be upon him would disprove who he was because if he did come to fulfill the law, he can't be cursed by that law.

This is a video that explains it

Thoughts please on that and especially on why do you believe they wanted to crucify Jesus.

I have noticed that on this religious forum the majority of the members detest religion, and their reason is often very valid: because religion demanded the execution of a sinless man, plus religious zealots like Paul persecuted His followers. However religion was established by God to teach us faith. A good example of the works of religion is found in the gospel of Luke 16:27-31: “And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house for I have five brothers that he may warn them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ But he said, ‘No father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’” So, we must believe in religion before we can advance to the knowledge of God.

 

[metis]

Jesus was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Jesus did not break any Roman law. He was found guilty of blasphemy which is a violation of Mosaic law.

Absolutely false as crucifixion is not a Jewish form of capital punishment, thus it is forbidden for us to execute anyone that way, plus the Romans had literally no interest in Jewish Law. All they expected from us was to keep the order and pay our taxes.

 

[Sabour]

God is not in the bible, it only talks about God. Christianity is not a religion, it is a way of life.
You wrote, "one of which orders you to kill anyone who tells you to let us serve other gods." So according to you we should kill each other: but who will decide who has the right God? The caliph...! The pope..! The American president ...! No wander the Islamic State is doing the atrocity that they are doing as we speak.

huh? How something in the bible turned out to be Islam's fault ?

If you believe that verse is not to be taken because christians don't know who God is, than that should tell you something about Christianity.

You also asked, "So on what basis you are calling him god."
Because He was the Word of God and came to us as a man, died without sin and went back to God.

At some point you christians should know the difference between explaining something and proving something. What you are stating is a story you would state to explain things. There is no proof to what you are saying.

 

[Sabour]

I have noticed that on this religious forum the majority of the members detest religion, and their reason is often very valid: because religion demanded the execution of a sinless man, plus religious zealots like Paul persecuted His followers. However religion was established by God to teach us faith. A good example of the works of religion is found in the gospel of Luke 16:27-31: “And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house for I have five brothers that he may warn them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ But he said, ‘No father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’” So, we must believe in religion before we can advance to the knowledge of God.

What are we debating here ?

 

[metis]

God died ?

And you're more right on that maybe you even think. If Jesus supposedly "died for our sins", which nature of Jesus was "sacrificed": his humanness or his divinity? If one says that it was his humanness, then some need to be reminded that human sacrifices are not allowed in Judaism both then and now. If it's his supposed divinity, how can God be sacrificed to God?

It only makes sense if viewed in symbolic terms, not literally.

 

[Sabour]

And you're more right on that maybe you even think. If Jesus supposedly "died for our sins", which nature of Jesus was "sacrificed": his humanness or his divinity? If one says that it was his humanness, then some need to be reminded that human sacrifices are not allowed in Judaism both then and now. If it's his supposed divinity, how can God be sacrificed to God?

It only makes sense if viewed in symbolic terms, not literally.

I would add that even in symbolic terms, it makes zero sense

 

[metis]

I would add that even in symbolic terms, it makes zero sense

It's a bit of a stretch, but it can be done, but mainly in terms that Jesus was the "final sacrifice" because the members of ?the Way" were being turned away from the Temple and that the "last supper" would replace the sacrifices as a "forgiveness of sins".

Obviously, I don't quite see it that way myself, but...

 

[Nakosis]

Luke 16:27-31: “And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house for I have five brothers that he may warn them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ But he said, ‘No father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead.’” So, we must believe in religion before we can advance to the knowledge of God.

If my brother, who I knew had died, came back from the dead to explain the afterlife, I think I'd more likely trust my brother then Moses and the Prophets who are also dead by the way.

Still don't understand why God would expect me to trust these folks I've never met and really have no reason to trust about anything, let alone facts about God.

 

[free spirit]

huh? How something in the bible turned out to be Islam's fault ?

If you believe that verse is not to be taken because christians don't know who God is, than that should tell you something about Christianity.



At some point you christians should know the difference between explaining something and proving something. What you are stating is a story you would state to explain things. There is no proof to what you are saying.

Are you searching for prove about the existence of God, or are you looking for prove about who Jesus is?

 

[Sabour]

Are you searching for prove about the existence of God, or are you looking for prove about who Jesus is?

Frankly you have to ask that question to yourself.

You were the one posting the very long posts without answering anything.

I was just answering what you are bringing to the table.

Sometimes I go wherever the person who is posting wants to go ... sometimes I dont.

 

[free spirit]

What are we debating here ?

That religion is only a stepping stone to the knowledge of God, because if we do not believe in a religion we have no faith.

 

[Sabour]

That religion is only a stepping stone to the knowledge of God, because if we do not believe in a religion we have no faith.

And sometimes it is a stepping stone towards blindness when one believes in something just to believe in it disregarding logical approaches. So making this statement is of no value unless that faith was proven to be true.

Blind belief is not acceptable to God.

 

[free spirit]

Frankly you have to ask that question to yourself.

You were the one posting the very long posts without answering anything.

I was just answering what you are bringing to the table.

Sometimes I go wherever the person who is posting wants to go ... sometimes I dont.

Any discussion about God is like that: To some people it makes no sense, to others it is just what they were looking for. I am sorry that my posts made no sense to you, God willing we will speak again.

 

[free spirit]

If my brother, who I knew had died, came back from the dead to explain the afterlife, I think I'd more likely trust my brother then Moses and the Prophets who are also dead by the way.

Still don't understand why God would expect me to trust these folks I've never met and really have no reason to trust about anything, let alone facts about God.

I didn't make the rules. Really I did not.

 

[Sabour]

Any discussion about God is like that: To some people it makes no sense, to others it is just what they were looking for. I am sorry that my posts made no sense to you, God willing we will speak again.

I am not the type of person who thinks there is more than one way to God. I think there is one way to God and we have to do it on his terms. SO what I am interested in is finding the truth and I don't walk away saying that for some people this is appropriate and for other people that is appropriate. I believe that there the one truth about the way God wants us to live and that way should have all the answers.

I believe that God is speaking with us through the Quraan and you believe that through the bible. If we are both to think the way that you are suggesting, we would reach nothing.

On this matter Quraan would tell me

3:64 Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."

What do you think of the part I quoted in red?

I am sorry if the discussion got heated up at any time, but I would be looking forward to speak again.

Until than, I hope you the best.

 

[Simplelogic]

It's a bit of a stretch, but it can be done, but mainly in terms that Jesus was the "final sacrifice" because the members of ?the Way" were being turned away from the Temple and that the "last supper" would replace the sacrifices as a "forgiveness of sins".

Obviously, I don't quite see it that way myself, but...

James and the 12 apostles continued to offer animal sacrifices many years after the death of Yeshua. This should say something regarding the concept of "final sacrifice". This concept was created by the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, an associate of Paul. Not one of the twelve.

 

[free spirit]

On this matter Quraan would tell me

3:64 Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."

What do you think of the part I quoted in red?

Please teach me who is Allah; Does he has a form? does he has a character?

 

[free spirit]

SO what I am interested in is finding the truth and I don't walk away saying that for some people this is appropriate and for other people that is appropriate. I believe that there the one truth about the way God wants us to live and that way should have all the answers.

From your interest to find the truth, I am renewed to share with you what I believe to be the universal truth. By the universal truth I mean that this truth is or should be the core of every faith.
So, what is God's universal, unchangeable truth? Please bear with me, for I can only explain this from the standpoint of Christianity.
John 18:33-38 we read of an exchange between Pilate the Roman governor and Jesus. It unfolds in the following manner: “Pilate therefore entered again into the praetorium, and summoned Jesus, and said to Him, ‘Are You the King of the Jews?’ Jesus answered, ‘Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?’ Pilate answered, ‘I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priest delivered You up to me; what have You done?’ Jesus answered, ‘My Kingdom is not of this world, if My Kingdom were of this world, then My servant would be fighting, that I might not be delivered up to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.’ Pilate therefore said to Him, ‘So you are a King?’ Jesus answered: ‘You say correctly that I am a King. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.’ Pilate said to Him, ‘What is truth?’ And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, ‘I find no guilt in Him.’”
If we superficially read the above exchange between Pilate and Jesus we will also be left asking, “What is truth?” But if we look more closely, some interesting facts will emerge, such as “He has come into the world to bear witness to the truth.” And then Jesus makes an extraordinary statement about the human race, “Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” What does it mean? And how did Jesus, by coming into the world bear witness to the truth? Or how can anyone be of the truth? The answer of course, through God’s wisdom, is staring at us in the face. We can all see it, but it can’t be perceived, unless it is spiritually revealed to us.
By the wisdom of God, the answer to “What is truth?” came out from Pilate’s own mouth, in the form of his judgement of Jesus: “I find no guilt in Him.” In other words, “He is holy, He is without sin.” We can see that by being holy even unto death, He has fulfilled His primary mission, which speaks thus: “He has come into the world to bear witness to the truth.” That is to say, Jesus has shown us in words and deeds how to be holy, or how to be of the truth (which is not by mere chance the heart of the gospel).
So we come to the most simple and worldwide-understood principle, because on the day that we are also to face judgement, that is all the truth that matters, for God will judge the world only according to our holiness or lack of it. Think about it. Is it possible to believe in God and yet practice sin? Is believing some denominational doctrine or an historical fact enough to be saved? Doesn’t even Satan believe?
But by the grace of God, we of the human race have been given a golden opportunity: “to be of the truth,” which enables us to hear His still and holy voice. All we have to have is the sincere desire to be holy, (remember Cornelius Acts 10:1-4) and if we are a true believer that should not be too difficult for us. After that the Holy Spirit will lead each individual into repentance, for He knows the right way for each one of us as we obey the prompting of the Holy Spirit, our inner attitude toward our fellow men and ourselves will change for the better, until we are at peace with God, at peace with ourselves and with the world.
On the day of judgement the Righteous Judge also will utter from His mouth, “I find no guilt in him.” On that day we will be changed from “who is of the truth” into “who is part of the truth.”
Because “Truth” in God’s eyes is not only that which is contrary to falsehood, but it is also a state of existence, the day will come when only “Truth” will exist in eternity. Then we can confidently say that“ Truth” is a state of unchanging holiness, the essence of God to which we, by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ have become partakers.
In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I Am the ‘Way’, the ‘Truth’, and the ‘Life’; no one comes to the Father, but through Me”. Yes!
He is the “Way” because we must follow the footsteps of His earthly life = Repentance
He is the “Truth” because He is the embodiment of unchanging holiness = God
He is also the “Life” because He is the eternal Word = Eternal life
What more is there to say? For I am fully convinced that if one doesn’t know anything about anything, but practises the beliefs that are in Jesus and/or lives his life by the principles of the gospel of holiness, he is acceptable to God.