Why did the Jews reject their Messiah when he DID come?

[IndigoChild5559]

Epic of Gilgamesh is Sumerian, isn't it?
Abraham came from Syria, but was born in what would have been called Sumer.

Ur is in what today is known as Iraq.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Genesis 4910
The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he to
whom it belongs shall come and the obedience of the nations shall be his.

It's a VERY poor translation. Here is the Jewish Publication Society:
"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, as long as men come to Shiloh; and unto him shall the obedience of the peoples be."
As you can see, it is simply a blessing of Judah, placing Judah above all the other tribes. Nothing messianic about this.

 

[Spartan]

Ur is in what today is known as Iraq.

So?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So?

just making the correction. it was not syria.

 

[PruePhillip]

It's a VERY poor translation. Here is the Jewish Publication Society:
"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, as long as men come to Shiloh; and unto him shall the obedience of the peoples be."
As you can see, it is simply a blessing of Judah, placing Judah above all the other tribes. Nothing messianic about this.

Ha ha ha. I like it, I like it!!!!!
A new translation, from the people who were driven out of Israel for 1900 years.
It's no more valid than any of the translations you read on Biblehub. In fact, it's less trustworthy.

The line of Jewish kings (of the southern kingdom of Juda) came from Judah.
Even King Herod wanted to marry someone from this line to increase his legitimacy.
Shiloh was just a Canaanite town, if it existed at all, when Jacob (in Egypt) was alive.
The obedience of the nations was to a person, not a town.
The scepter (monarchy) did not exist because there was no Hebrew nation and Hebrews
were under the rule of prophets, and rejected kingship.)

 

[PruePhillip]

Nope.

Shiloh | Land of the Bible
www.land-bible.com/shiloh


Shiloh. The Biblical Period The site of ancient Shiloh, a city in the Ephraim hill-country, was the religious capital of Israel for 300 years before Jerusalem. Mentioned in the time of the Book of Joshua and Judges, it is north of Beth-El, east of the Beth El–Shechem highway and south of Lebonah in the hill-country of Ephraim (Judg. 21:19).

Shiloh in Jacob's context means "he who should come" in some translations.
And when He comes the monarchy and Law are finished - and by implication,
so too is this future Hebrew nation.

 

[sooda]

So?

Ur was in Southern Iraq and did not exist in the time of Abraham.

 

[Tumah]

Shiloh in Jacob's context means "he who should come" in some translations.
And when He comes the monarchy and Law are finished - and by implication,
so too is this future Hebrew nation.

Shiloh does not mean "he who should come" in any context. It does not have the root of any word related to coming.
The rest of your comment is just as educated.

 

[PruePhillip]

Shiloh does not mean "he who should come" in any context. It does not have the root of any word related to coming.
The rest of your comment is just as educated.

"Until Shiloh come, and in Him..."
The Messiah is also called Michael and how do we connect Jesus to that?
And the Messiah is also Emmanuel - but how... ??????
And the "Lamb of God" but... lambs... are... sheep.. and Jesus is...

The bible is symbolic. The literal aspect of this you can read as saying that
Israel will last until the Messiah comes, and in him will the Gentiles trust.

 

[Spartan]

Ur was in Southern Iraq and did not exist in the time of Abraham.

It existed when Genesis was written.

 

[PruePhillip]

It existed when Genesis was written.

What they mean is, I think, is that when it says Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldeas, it's a handy
way to date the writing of Genesis account.
That is true, and maybe not true.
In Abraham's day they called that region Sumer. In King David's day they called it Chaldea I suppose.
But that doesn't necessarily mean Genesis was written in David's or Babylonian times, it could mean
that translators or redactors simply use the names kingdoms and kings are known by.

 

[metis]

It existed when Genesis was written.

Not likely as that portion appears to have had a 6th to 7th b.c.e. composition whereas "Babylon" was the name. However, most biblical scholars tend to believe that much was probably carried orally, thus the origin could have been substantially earlier.

 

[sooda]

It existed when Genesis was written.

You mean AFTER the Babylonian exile when Genesis was written?

Look closely at how the Euphrates River goes into the Persian Gulf. The River changed course. There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in the time of Abraham.

 

[sooda]

"Until Shiloh come, and in Him..."
The Messiah is also called Michael and how do we connect Jesus to that?
And the Messiah is also Emmanuel - but how... ??????
And the "Lamb of God" but... lambs... are... sheep.. and Jesus is...

The bible is symbolic. The literal aspect of this you can read as saying that
Israel will last until the Messiah comes, and in him will the Gentiles trust.

Shiloh was an ancient city mentioned in the Bible. Its site is at modern Khirbet Seilun, south of ancient Tirzah and 25 miles (40 km) north of Jerusalem. It was the capital of Israel before the first Temple was built in Jerusalem.
Shiloh | Land of the Bible
www.land-bible.com/Shiloh/

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Ha ha ha. I like it, I like it!!!!!
A new translation, from the people who were driven out of Israel for 1900 years.
It's no more valid than any of the translations you read on Biblehub. In fact, it's less trustworthy.

I don't think you know where Jews come from. The only thing we consider truly authoritative is the actual Hebrew and Jews start learning Hebrew in preschool. Our coming of age rite is reading from the Torah.

It is you that is dependent on English translations. The JPS version is for the benefit of folks like you.

So you are one of the KJV only folks. I've never understood that POV. The KJV is a translation of a translation and it thus one of the worse translations out there.

But whatever. I have shown you a translation truer to the Hebrew. If you reject that, then you reject the very notion of the original being "inspire of God" as you Christians say.

 

[Desert Snake]

The 'english translation', writes 'yahweh', for the Tetragrammaton, which I don't say, the 'religious aspect' isn't parallel, I have form God, concept, God with both non form and form aspects, the 'text adherence', isn't the same, I have more than Hebrew in the 'sacred or religious' part of the Bible, so forth.

So, translations aside, that is all different.

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't think you know where Jews come from. The only thing we consider truly authoritative is the actual Hebrew and Jews start learning Hebrew in preschool. Our coming of age rite is reading from the Torah.

It is you that is dependent on English translations. The JPS version is for the benefit of folks like you.

So you are one of the KJV only folks. I've never understood that POV. The KJV is a translation of a translation and it thus one of the worse translations out there.

But whatever. I have shown you a translation truer to the Hebrew. If you reject that, then you reject the very notion of the original being "inspire of God" as you Christians say.

Jews do or some jews, do correlate english 'g-d' to Hebrew, so, that 'language argument', seems a bit abstract.

The translated Biblical text is still "the Bible".

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The 'english translation', writes 'yahweh', for the Tetragrammaton, which I don't say, the 'religious aspect' isn't parallel, I have form God, concept, God with both non form and form aspects, the 'text adherence', isn't the same, I have more than Hebrew in the 'sacred or religious' part of the Bible, so forth.

So, translations aside, that is all different.

I find that translation offensive. First because it ignores the tradition of respecting the sacred name of God by substituting Lord/Adonai in every text but the Hebrew. Secondly because the actual pronunciation was lost long ago. That pronunciation is actually just a guess.

Most English translations use LORD in all caps (to distinguish it from the translation of Adonai).

 

[Rival]

Most English translations use LORD in all caps (to distinguish it from the translation of Adonai).

And then Christians say they don't believe in the Oral Torah and Rabbinic Tradition. Lol.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jews do or some jews, do correlate english 'g-d' to Hebrew, so, that 'language argument', seems a bit abstract.

The translated Biblical text is still "the Bible".

God or G-d is a translation of El or Elohim, not the tetragrammaton.

The Bible in English is not the Bible. It is a translation of the Bible.