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Why did the Jews refused to be hellenized by Greeks

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
um, actually some jews became Hellenized and Greek culture and architecture did effect jewish life and society. The times when Jews fought back against Hellenization was when non-Jewish rulers would completely outlaw jewish practices entirely, such as the events which would lead to the Maccabean revolt.

Yes, but you Jews rejected the Hellenistic vision of woman. That is a woman that represents God on Earth. I don't think that the Jews would have accepted a queen like Cleopatra....who was sensuous and embodied the Hellenistic gynocentrism . I don't think that a virile priest like Caiaphas would obey Cleopatra.
elizabeth-taylor-cleopatra-20th-century-fox.jpg



Besides...I know what Jewish rabbis and priests think about women. I think that they would never have accepted to attend the plays performed in Greek theaters, all based upon the woman's centrality.

03_352-288.jpg


Le-baccanti-siracusa.jpg
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Yes, but you Jews rejected the Hellenistic vision of woman. That is a woman that represents God on Earth. I don't think that the Jews would have accepted a queen like Cleopatra....who was sensuous and embodied the Hellenistic gynocentrism . I don't think that a virile priest like Caiaphas would obey Cleopatra.
Sorry but history is based on fact, not your opinions :rolleyes:
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Sorry but history is based on fact, not your opinions :rolleyes:

so..is it my opinion that Cleopatra was worshiped as a goddess?
Maybe it's people like you who want to try to erase history, because there are uncomfortable truths
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Maybe it's people like you who want to try to erase history, because there are uncomfortable truths
Maybe it's people like me who see that trying to apply modern notions of feminism and social equality to certain ancient societies is silly and highly anachronistic ;)
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Maybe it's people like me who see that trying to apply modern notions of feminism and egalitarianism to certain ancient societies is silly and highly anachronistic ;)

… or a rather repugnant and juvenile cultural chauvinism that, in this case, reeks of antisemitic trolling.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Maybe it's people like me who see that trying to apply modern notions of feminism and social equality to certain ancient societies is silly and highly anachronistic ;)

Let's talk about facts, then. In Corinth there was a practice called sacred prostitution. The priestess of the temple was a prostitute that slept with lots of men on a daily basis. The money gained was for financing charity and temple activities.
so this prostitute was seen as the embodiment of the Magna Mater, the Goddess of fertility. Very emblem of Gynocentrism

I don't think that Jews would have approved something like that. The Tanakh forbids sacred prostitution
None of the daughters of Israel shall be a kedeshah, nor shall any of the sons of Israel be a kadesh.
You shall not bring the hire of a prostitute (zonah) or the wages of a dog (kelev) into the house of the Lord your God to pay a vow, for both of these are an abomination to the Lord your God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution

In the Hellenistic and Roman period, Jews used to stone adulteresses to death.
 
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xkatz

Well-Known Member
Let's talk about facts, then. In Corinth there was a practice called sacred prostitution. The priestess of the temple was a prostitute that slept with lots of men on a daily basis. The money gained was for financing charity and temple activities.
so this prostitute was seen as the embodiment of the Magna Mater, the Goddess of fertility. Very emblem of Gynocentrism

I don't think that Jews would have approved something like that. In the Hellenistic and Roman period, Jews used to stone adulteresses to death.
so, no offense. But facts show barbarism compared to enlightened feminism
1) Being a glorified prostitute for a pagan deity is enlightened feminism? :biglaugh:

2) Many historians have begun to doubt that such a practice was even that widespread.

3) MUH HISTORICAL ANACHRONISM!
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
In the Hellenistic and Roman period, Jews used to stone adulteresses to death.
so, no offense. But facts show barbarism compared to enlightened feminism

Not during the Roman period, and I have doubts that it was done during the Hellenistic period. The reason is that the Romans took it upon themselves to be the only body that could issue executions. Could a "mob" acting on its own have done it? Possibly.

As far as the Hellenistic period, I have my doubts simply because maximum penalties were often avoided in favor of lesser ones. Are there any sources you can cite that state that the stoning was done on any kind of regular basis?

BTW, execution was a process utilized undoubtedly in the vast majority of societies in the world then.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
so, no offense. But facts show barbarism compared to enlightened feminism

I used to be pagan and worshiper of the Magna Mater. I used to believe that prostitutes and promiscuous women were the embodiment of the divine spirit. Whereas virgins were daughters of Evil

So, what are your beliefs on such matters now?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
1) Being a glorified prostitute for a pagan deity is enlightened feminism? :biglaugh:

2) Many historians have begun to doubt that such a practice was even that widespread.

3) MUH HISTORICAL ANACHRONISM!

1) yes...those women were free to sleep with lots of men and I think they really enjoyed it, given that sacred prostitution was a free profession. If they became priestesses, it's because they liked it. Females' absolute freedom

2) Ahh... I understand....when you are in difficulty, you try to deny evidence. Good tactic. But not effective.

3) Historical truth: we are talking about the Ancient ages, not about the 20th century
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
So, what are your beliefs on such matters now?

well..I'm a Christian now...so I acknowledge that it was just pagan superstition.
But professing that religion certainly made me a feminist. a moderate feminist, not an angry one
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
As far as the Hellenistic period, I have my doubts simply because maximum penalties were often avoided in favor of lesser ones. Are there any sources you can cite that state that the stoning was done on any kind of regular basis?
yes, The New Testament, (the Gospels)
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
1) yes...those women were free to sleep with lots of men and I think they really enjoyed it, given that sacred prostitution was a free profession. If they became priestesses, it's because they liked it. And I really envy them.
And you don't think men enjoyed "easy access" either? :rolleyes: And you think they could simply refuse to have sex if they weren't interested?

2) Ahh... I understand....when you are in difficulty, you try to deny evidence. Good tactic. But not effective.
Wiki:
Recently some scholars, such as Robert A. Oden, Stephanie Lynn Budin and others, have questioned whether sacred prostitution, as an institution whereby women and men sold sex for the profit of deities and temples, did in fact ever actually exist at all. Julia Assante believes that the classical view of temple prostitution is more of a construct of the 19th-century Western European mindset than a true representation of the facts. While there may well have been some religious prostitution centred around the temples of Inanna/Ishtar, Assante suggests that the concept of the 'Sacred Marriage' hieros gamos has in fact been misunderstood. It was previously believed to have been a custom whereby the king coupled with the high priestess to represent the union of Dumuzid with Inanna (later called Ishtar). It's much more likely that these unions never occurred, but were embellishments to the image of the king; hymns which praise Middle Eastern kings for coupling with the goddess Ishtar often also speak of him as running 320 kilometres, offering sacrifices, feasting with the sun-god Utu, and receiving a royal crown from An, all in a single day. One scholar comments: "No one, to the best of my knowledge, has been so wooden-minded to propose that human actors played the role of Utu and An at the banquet". Not all authors are convinced, however.
3) Historical truth: we are talking about the Ancient ages, not about the 20th century
Yes but 20th and 21st century ideas and notions shouldn't be applied so liberally to such societies.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
yes, The New Testament, (the Gospels)

But it doesn't say that the stoning was sanctioned by the religious authorities, which would have gotten into trouble with the Roman authorities if they tried to execute anyone. Remember Jesus being turned over to Pilate as an example?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
well..I'm a Christian now...so I acknowledge that it was just pagan superstition.
But professing that religion certainly made me a feminist. a moderate feminist, not an angry one

But you're Catholic now. How many female Popes have there been? cardinals? bishops? priests?

In Judaism, many congregations do have female rabbis, so we're well ahead of you on the "Feminist Scale". ;)
 
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