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Why Atheism is a Belief System

Neutral Name

Active Member
Him saying that Sweden doesn't exist would be a non-belief in Swedens existence. His opening words say "I don’t believe that Sweden exists".

The conspiracy that he says is the motivation behind why people say Sweden exists is a belief of his.

Not believing something is the opposite of belief.

Atheism is: NOT BELIEVING in the existence of a God. The opposite of belief.

Absolutely! My son is a devout atheist. He just plain doesn't believe and doesn't think he needs to. His life is simply his life. Nothing happens for a reason. Things just happen. I applaud him for his beliefs. He is true to himself. I am not an atheist but I was and I understand why people are.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Some of what I see happening is people denouncing all belief in God, indiscriminately. Some of the people doing that call themselves atheists, but no one is using atheism as an argument for denouncing belief in God. Mostly what I see people saying as their reason for denouncing belief in God is some harmful attitudes and behavior that seem to go along with that.

Even if the reason for denouncing belief in God is some harmful attitudes and behavior associated with it, one approach to denouncing it is to say that there’s no good reason for believing it. Responding to that by saying that there’s no good reason for not believing it diverts attention away from the issue of the harmful attitudes and behavior associated with it, which is the reason for denouncing it in the first place.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Some of what I see happening is people denouncing all belief in God, indiscriminately. Some of the people doing that call themselves atheists, but no one is using atheism as an argument for denouncing belief in God. Mostly what I see people saying as their reason for denouncing belief in God is some harmful attitudes and behavior that seem to go along with that.

Even if the reason for denouncing belief in God is some harmful attitudes and behavior associated with it, one approach to denouncing it is to say that there’s no good reason for believing it. Responding to that by saying that there’s no good reason for not believing it diverts attention away from the issue of the harmful attitudes and behavior associated with it, which is the reason for denouncing it in the first place.
I have a good reason not to believe in God
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Some of what I see happening is people denouncing all belief in God, indiscriminately. Some of the people doing that call themselves atheists, but no one is using atheism as an argument for denouncing belief in God. Mostly what I see people saying as their reason for denouncing belief in God is some harmful attitudes and behavior that seem to go along with that.

Even if the reason for denouncing belief in God is some harmful attitudes and behavior associated with it, one approach to denouncing it is to say that there’s no good reason for believing it. Responding to that by saying that there’s no good reason for not believing it diverts attention away from the issue of the harmful attitudes and behavior associated with it, which is the reason for denouncing it in the first place.

Most people that lack the belief in a god is due to science. There is no scientific evidence for a God. There is a book written by men claiming to be of a gods word but even that has no evidence to support it. It simply comes down to faith, believing in something that has no evidence. That in itself is harmful IMO because people put their faith in stories and myths instead of reality.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” my friend suddenly declared from across the coffee shop table. He took a sip of espresso and stared intently at me, clearly awaiting a response. I paused, my cinnamon roll halfway to my mouth, as I digested what he’d just said.


“Pardon?”


“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” he repeated. “I think it’s just a political conspiracy, designed to motivate other European citizens to work harder. All that talk of the best health care system, the highest standard of living, of tall and beautiful people. It sounds like a myth and I’m not buying it. I don’t believe in Sweden.”


I stared at my friend silently for a moment, allowing the sounds of the coffee shop to drift over us as I pondered. In the background, the radio began playing ‘Dancing Queen’ by Abba.


“What do you mean, ‘You don’t believe in Sweden’?” I finally replied. “That’s insane. If Sweden doesn’t exist, how do you explain IKEA furniture, or the Swedish chef on The Muppet Show, or what glues Norway to Finland? That’s a staggering claim! What’s your evidence?”


“What do you mean ‘evidence’?” he asked.


“Evidence,” I said. “You must have more than just a hunch but some pretty impressive evidence for your belief. I know Sweden only has 9.5 million inhabitants, but you can’t simply deny outright that it exists!”


“Aha,” said my friend sagely, “I see your confusion. You think that my denial of Sweden is a belief. But it’s simply a non-belief and so I don’t need to give evidence for it.”


“Come again?” I said.


“Yes,” he continued, warming to his theme, “I don’t have to provide evidence for my non-belief in Atlantis, El Dorado, or Shangri-La and nor do I need to do so for my non-belief in Sweden. You see I’m not making a claim of any kind—quite the opposite: I’m claiming nothing, I’m merely rejecting one of your beliefs—your belief in Sweden.”
Why Atheism Is a Belief System | Zacharias Trust | RZIM Europe

Thoughts?
Great story. Thanks for sharing.

There is no scientific uniform definition of God that all agree on
So debating about God is in itself kind of "not smart", "not scientific"

There is no scientific proof that God exists
So claiming God "exists" is kind of "not smart", "not scientific"
So claiming God "exist not" is kind of "not smart", "not scientific"

Hence the Saints remain Silent ... kind of "smart", "scientific"
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
“Aha,” said my friend sagely, “I see your confusion. You think that my denial of Sweden is a belief. But it’s simply a non-belief and so I don’t need to give evidence for it.”
Just because Friend asserts a negative proposition doesn't relieve him of the obligation to demonstrate that his assertion is correct.

But when it comes to God, there is, for me at least, a different problem.

Can anyone tell me what a real god is? Such that I can tell whether any real being, thing or phenomenon is God or not? For instance, I can demonstrate that my keyboard isn't Sweden, but I can't demonstrate that it isn't God.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” my friend suddenly declared from across the coffee shop table. He took a sip of espresso and stared intently at me, clearly awaiting a response. I paused, my cinnamon roll halfway to my mouth, as I digested what he’d just said.


“Pardon?”


“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” he repeated. “I think it’s just a political conspiracy, designed to motivate other European citizens to work harder. All that talk of the best health care system, the highest standard of living, of tall and beautiful people. It sounds like a myth and I’m not buying it. I don’t believe in Sweden.”


I stared at my friend silently for a moment, allowing the sounds of the coffee shop to drift over us as I pondered. In the background, the radio began playing ‘Dancing Queen’ by Abba.


“What do you mean, ‘You don’t believe in Sweden’?” I finally replied. “That’s insane. If Sweden doesn’t exist, how do you explain IKEA furniture, or the Swedish chef on The Muppet Show, or what glues Norway to Finland? That’s a staggering claim! What’s your evidence?”


“What do you mean ‘evidence’?” he asked.


“Evidence,” I said. “You must have more than just a hunch but some pretty impressive evidence for your belief. I know Sweden only has 9.5 million inhabitants, but you can’t simply deny outright that it exists!”


“Aha,” said my friend sagely, “I see your confusion. You think that my denial of Sweden is a belief. But it’s simply a non-belief and so I don’t need to give evidence for it.”


“Come again?” I said.


“Yes,” he continued, warming to his theme, “I don’t have to provide evidence for my non-belief in Atlantis, El Dorado, or Shangri-La and nor do I need to do so for my non-belief in Sweden. You see I’m not making a claim of any kind—quite the opposite: I’m claiming nothing, I’m merely rejecting one of your beliefs—your belief in Sweden.”
Why Atheism Is a Belief System | Zacharias Trust | RZIM Europe

Thoughts?
Great story

Dictionary definition
Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

stvdv definition:
Theism: belief AND "lack of scientific proof" in the existence of God or gods
Atheism: disbelief or "lack of belief" AND "lack of scientific proof" in the existence of God or gods
(I would rather say "without belief" ... "lack of belief" gives me a feeling that Atheist might kind of "lack" something. "Without" feels empowering)

Facts:
Some Theists: Like to shove "their own belief" through the throat of the Atheist,
Some Theists: Like to shove "Atheism also is a belief" through the throat of the Atheist

At least these Theists and Atheists have one thing in common "lack of scientific proof"
At least these Theists and Atheists have one thing in common "lack of experience of God"

I rather avoid Theists who enjoy "shoving things through the throat of others" because:
These Theists: "lack proof + "lack respect" + "lack compassion" + "lack empathy" + "lack common sense" + "lack discrimination (of right/wrong)"

These Theists: "LACK LOVE" ... isn't that something?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” my friend suddenly declared from across the coffee shop table. He took a sip of espresso and stared intently at me, clearly awaiting a response. I paused, my cinnamon roll halfway to my mouth, as I digested what he’d just said.


“Pardon?”


“I don’t believe that Sweden exists,” he repeated. “I think it’s just a political conspiracy, designed to motivate other European citizens to work harder. All that talk of the best health care system, the highest standard of living, of tall and beautiful people. It sounds like a myth and I’m not buying it. I don’t believe in Sweden.”


I stared at my friend silently for a moment, allowing the sounds of the coffee shop to drift over us as I pondered. In the background, the radio began playing ‘Dancing Queen’ by Abba.


“What do you mean, ‘You don’t believe in Sweden’?” I finally replied. “That’s insane. If Sweden doesn’t exist, how do you explain IKEA furniture, or the Swedish chef on The Muppet Show, or what glues Norway to Finland? That’s a staggering claim! What’s your evidence?”


“What do you mean ‘evidence’?” he asked.


“Evidence,” I said. “You must have more than just a hunch but some pretty impressive evidence for your belief. I know Sweden only has 9.5 million inhabitants, but you can’t simply deny outright that it exists!”


“Aha,” said my friend sagely, “I see your confusion. You think that my denial of Sweden is a belief. But it’s simply a non-belief and so I don’t need to give evidence for it.”


“Come again?” I said.


“Yes,” he continued, warming to his theme, “I don’t have to provide evidence for my non-belief in Atlantis, El Dorado, or Shangri-La and nor do I need to do so for my non-belief in Sweden. You see I’m not making a claim of any kind—quite the opposite: I’m claiming nothing, I’m merely rejecting one of your beliefs—your belief in Sweden.”
Why Atheism Is a Belief System | Zacharias Trust | RZIM Europe

Thoughts?

It is quite obvious where the problem is. There is, de-facto, evidence that Sweden exists. And there is even a simple epistemology to find that out: buy a trip to Sweden. So, in order to not believe it, requires evidence that this evidence about Sweden is wrong, or that it is no evidence at all.

On the other hand, Pinocchio, Jesus, Apollo, Allah, Vishnu, Superman, etc. they all share the same evidence of existing, which is zero. Therefore, it does not require any evidence to justify disbelief in any of them.

What has no evidence can be disbelieved without evidence.
But that does not entail that what has evidence can be disbelieved without evidence. It just entails that the evidence must be scrutinised.

So, there is no symmetry between the two cases (Sweden vs. Apollo, Pinocchio, Jesus, etc.). And the analogy breaks.

Hej då

- viole
 
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viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Why do you think people are atheists?

Because they do not believe in Mother Goose either. And there is really not much required to explain why people do not believe in Mother Goose. So, since Gods and Mother Goose have the same evidence, there is not much to explain why people do not believe in Gods, either.

Ciao

- viole
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Just because Friend asserts a negative proposition doesn't relieve him of the obligation to demonstrate that his assertion is correct.

But when it comes to God, there is, for me at least, a different problem.

Can anyone tell me what a real god is? Such that I can tell whether any real being, thing or phenomenon is God or not? For instance, I can demonstrate that my keyboard isn't Sweden, but I can't demonstrate that it isn't God.


Ha ha. My duty is to remind “You Art That”.:)
 
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