Why are Christians in defence of them self’s and not Christ?

[wizanda]

I have to ask you a question, Wizanda. You are always throwing the murder of prophets around. I don't understand what you are trying to say. We Christians know that Isaiah, Jeremiah, John The Baptist and all the other prophets were killed. But how does that pertain to us now? I can not go back in time and stop these deaths. Maybe you can explain it to me so I can understand what you are trying to say.

Mat 23:29-32
(29) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
(30) And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

 

[Mister Emu]

John 10:17-18
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it again...

 

[wizanda]

John 10:17-18
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have the power to lay it down, and I have the power to take it again...

John is proven false in loads of places and if you would help will show why....

Yet for this point....

How can God set out the scales, yet then the objects in the scales say differently?

 

[FatMan]

Mat 23:29-32
(29) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
(30) And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Does quoting scripture actually answer a direct question? It does nothing to show why you continually throw the "murder" of prophets around as an issue.

 

[ChristineES]

I have read those verses many a time, and they are great but it does not answer my question.

 

[wizanda]

I have read those verses many a time, and they are great but it does not answer my question.

If you remove first Paul on 36+ contradictions…
Then Simon on backing him up and Yeshua labelling him Stone (peter), plus own contradictions….
Then John on making stuff up and saying “I Am Christ” all the time, plus major Biblical contradictions.

All of them can also be shown as Pharisees….

Matthew, Mark and Luke show what we mean…..
If in them it only asks for “mercy and not sacrifice and not to kill the innocent”…….
Then it goes as far, as to state that those murdering the son of God and thinking they can claiming an inheritance from it, will get nothing and will be punished for it….
It also says that those proclaiming they follow Pharisees, are also full of dead men’s bones and build temples for dead prophets….

Balaam teachings are that God needs to sacrifice anything, so if by saying you are Christian and not a follower of Christ, you state that you believe he was a living sacrifice, that makes people guilty in Yeshua own wording…….

So this is quite literally, please :shout………“come out of it, our people”………for the love of God and Oneness……..:angel2:

 

[Mister Emu]

John is proven false in loads of places and if you would help will show why....

Where is John "proven" false?

If in them it only asks for “mercy and not sacrifice and not to kill the innocent”…….

Mat 16:17
This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins

 

[wizanda]

Where is John "proven" false?

In John the discussion with Pilate, it is said to be elaborated, where the other disciples it is said was silent.

The destroying of the Temple in Matthew and Mark (John-Mark = Fishermen), is said to be made up by the Pharisees; John tells us this is truth…….he also says, “then the disciples knew, he meant the Body”, ‘Matthew’ and Mark were disciple….

There is countless occasions of Christ using “I Am” (EGO I-Mee), though he said don’t follow those who say that of him.

Christ said to go to the lost house of Israel, (Caiaphas and then) John said, Yeshua said to go to all nations….

Eternal life is given by God…Yeshua said only God is Good…So why does John make up parts contradictory to the other gospels?

Eating blood and flesh is in the first line almost of Genesis, saying don’t do this or get disowned by God….

This list continues with loads more…..allot of Biblical references in the old testament, on things not to do….like the Vine is to be burnt….

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

That sounds really great and PC, but Christians are supposed to bother others with their faith. I don't mean push it on them after they say not to talk about it (no one has ever done that to me, but then I only talk a little about it). To be fair, I also listen about other's faith.

Excuse me? :sarcastic

I have no idea what you mean by this or how it relates to FatMan's or my post.

Bump.

 

[love]

Wizanda , I have read many of your post and you seem almost incoherent most of the time. Why don't you post a thread and tell us a little about yourself and what you believe. Maybe then I can discuss what I believe.

 

[wizanda]

Wizanda , I have read many of your post and you seem almost incoherent most of the time. Why don't you post a thread and tell us a little about yourself and what you believe. Maybe then I can discuss what I believe.

At some point think will do videos, as many are saying I don't make much sense or go well over most people heads in anything i approach....why prefer to talk within scriptures…

 

[FatMan]

At some point think will do videos, as many are saying I don't make much sense or go well over most people heads in anything i approach....why prefer to talk within scriptures…

And almost on cue, a perfect example of what love was referring to comes to fruition.

 

[wizanda]

And almost on cue, a perfect example of what love was referring to comes to fruition.

Depends how……………….. as on, if jump right martyred and if jump left martyred, so where is there a middle ground....
So this is where you would expect people to defend Christ, above them self…….

Like with JFK being shot, he made a broadcast about them, yet was then immediately silenced……. he pleaded for support of the community to fix it, so how can you stop something, without it?….

So when a kingdom stands so strongly divided, then obviously something is wrong…..So can’t we fix that between us, so we can see the true Christ and then let that light spread due to it being cleansed?

Instead of looking with glasses made of clay, so when the rain comes the vision becomes worse…..lets set the clay with a fire of the two E-dged s-word and fix it…..

 

[FatMan]

Like with JFK being shot, he made a broadcast about them, yet was then immediately silenced……. he pleaded for support of the community to fix it, so how can you stop something, without it?….

What does anything said in this thread have to do with JFK being shot, and what "broadcast" could you possibly be speaking about??

 

[sojourner]

I think what Wiz is trying to say is that the whole soteriology of Xy is predicated upon the death of Jesus, who was innocent of any crime. We celebrate that sacrifice as a basic part of our worship. But, as he points out, the Bible states, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" &c.

But where Wiz crosses the line is here: He says that we celebrate the sacrifice of Christ as a good thing. We don't! We don't celebrate the sacrifice at all, as a matter of fact. We celebrate what the sacrifice (in part) effected for humanity, not the sacrifice itself.

We have this religious season called Lent -- the forty days preceeding Easter. During that time we reflect on our own sinfulness and upon Christ's sacrifice. Our worship during Lent is penitential -- that is, we are sorry for our sinfulness that precipitated the sacrifice of Christ. Lent is not a celebratory time. We sing no doxologies, we refrain from the use of "Hallelujah," and we even cover the adornments in our sacred spaces. There is no festive processional before worship, and there are numerous opportunities for fasting and other spiritual disciplines. During Holy Week, the week immediately preceeding Easter, our worship takes on a particularly somber note, as we reflect on the events of the Passion.

On Easter, we celebrate loudly -- not the sacrifice, but the resurrection to life.

No. We do not celebrate the sacrifice of Christ. We are deeply sorry for the sacrifice -- that our own sinfulness brought it upon him. Our sinfulness was bought with a heavy, heavy price and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

But, we recognize that the sacrifice happened, and we seek to find God's will within it, and what meaning that might carry for the rest of us.

Wiz's premise is flat wrong on this subject. I'm sorry that he stresses so much over it. Perhaps if he took a good look at our theology, his heart could be put to rest on the matter.

 

[wizanda]

"our theology"?
Who is "our"?
The Pharisees?...."with Shouts of "grace, grace" to the plummet-line"....

By the way it Zanda...:angel2:

 

[!Fluffy!]

What was that Paul Newman movie? oh yeah, Cool Hand Luke:

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate"

 

[wizanda]

What was that Paul Newman movie? oh yeah, Cool Hand Luke:

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate"

Yeh keep trying any and everyway how, have been thinking about it since 5 years old also, on how and still getting no further.....why asked about not defending self and everyone keeps defending them self...
“Butt, butt, butt”

 

[sojourner]

"our theology"?
Who is "our"?
The Pharisees?...."with Shouts of "grace, grace" to the plummet-line"....

By the way it Zanda...:angel2:

"Our" = Christians. Christian theology. That's what you need to study more. Christian theology is not the same as that of Pharisaical Judaism. That's why we're Christians and not Pharisees.

Why is it that we try to explain to you what we believe, and you insist that we believe in something else entirely? "He who has ears had better listen."

 

[wizanda]

"Our" = Christians. Christian theology. That's what you need to study more. Christian theology is not the same as that of Pharisaical Judaism. That's why we're Christians and not Pharisees.

Why is it that we try to explain to you what we believe, and you insist that we believe in something else entirely? "He who has ears had better listen."

Because some of us were sent and fight with a two edged sword, you keep cutting your self on for fun?
Some of us were raised in a family of different teachers, with my auntie Christine having her own Christian book shop.....read my own path since birth….
So don’t assume to know me....actually on second thoughts do Sananda is the new name of Christ, Zan is original name of Zeus and other cultures globally, Zian/Zion, tsîyôn is city?
So who are you arguing with?
Your self, as again to settle this.... you point fingers and cause me to defend....:angel2: