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Why are Christians in defence of them self’s and not Christ?

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Because I'm debating you and pointing out the inconsistencies in your perspective of Christian theolgoy, I'm "cutting myself for fun???"

I don't assume to know you, but I do assume to know that your take on Christian theology is mistaken. You may speak to some heretical theological ideas, but not to the preponderance of Christian thought.

Whatever you might choose to believe, Christian theology is not Pharisaical in either nature or impetus. No matter what the books in Auntie's bookstore might say.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
So again, when we are asking why you are not defending Christ, you defend your self or attack...
mmmmm, nothing like the Pharisees...honest :)
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
So again, when we are asking why you are not defending Christ, you defend your self or attack...
mmmmm, nothing like the Pharisees...honest :)

Christ needs no defense. There is no attack. Your take on what most Christians believe is mistaken. Period. Therefore, you are presenting a straw-man to tear down.

Perhaps if you stopped brandishing your sword you might realize that orthodox Christianity is not the enemy, but the friend of Christ.

What is this morbid fascination with warriors?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
No fascination, having watched me being murdered in a movie style vision, where it felt so really, woke up sweating after being stabbed in the side, with my own mother being heart broken, as i slowly left this body...knowing i would be ok and where I was going, yet the pain it left on her was horrible....
So when you go around glorifying Pharisee teachings, which oppose the Bible and Christ strongly...it makes me sick with jealousy and rage for my family.....
Then if you can’t see this, it is because God has blinded you, as it is sick to believe that a man should die, so you can get off…it is sick to believe God would sacrifice….
So if you defend people who say that, then you your self are implying that is ok and so stand against Christ.
plus also it is because i have spent my life studying most spiritual books, yet my theology hasn't changed since birth....just proof reader for God and here are my findings take them or leave them...
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No fascination, having watched me being murdered in a movie style vision, where it felt so really, woke up sweating after being stabbed in the side, with my own mother being heart broken, as i slowly left this body...knowing i would be ok and where I was going, yet the pain it left on her was horrible....
So when you go around glorifying Pharisee teachings, which oppose the Bible and Christ strongly...it makes me sick with jealousy and rage for my family.....
Then if you can’t see this, it is because God has blinded you, as it is sick to believe that a man should die, so you can get off…it is sick to believe God would sacrifice….
So if you defend people who say that, then you your self are implying that is ok and so stand against Christ.
plus also it is because i have spent my life studying most spiritual books, yet my theology hasn't changed since birth....just proof reader for God and here are my findings take them or leave them...

Visions can be emotionally charged, but that's no reason to take it out on the rest of us. We're not responsible for your visions.

Your findings are flawed with regard to what most Christians believe. You don't get to pretend that we believe what we do not, and then attack those "straw man" beliefs as if they were reality.

I don't believe that "a man should die so I can get off." That's substitutionary atonement, which, as I've stated before, is not the belief of most Christians. Verdict: Not sick. God sacrificed God's own self -- not someone else. Verdict: Not sick.

I don't defend those beliefs. I'm not saying those beliefs are OK. I do not agree with a Pharisaical approach. Therefore, I do not stand against Christ...nor do the majority of Christian people.

Why don't you attack the Pharisees? Or better yet, why don't you attack no one at all and take some bicarbonate if you're feeling queasy?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Visions can be emotionally charged, but that's no reason to take it out on the rest of us. We're not responsible for your visions.
Your findings are flawed with regard to what most Christians believe. You don't get to pretend that we believe what we do not, and then attack those "straw man" beliefs as if they were reality.

I don't believe that "a man should die so I can get off." That's substitutionary atonement, which, as I've stated before, is not the belief of most Christians. Verdict: Not sick. God sacrificed God's own self -- not someone else. Verdict: Not sick.

I don't defend those beliefs. I'm not saying those beliefs are OK. I do not agree with a Pharisaical approach. Therefore, I do not stand against Christ...nor do the majority of Christian people.

Why don't you attack the Pharisees? Or better yet, why don't you attack no one at all and take some bicarbonate if you're feeling queasy?
Rev 1:16
(16) And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Luk 2:35
(35) (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Rev 19:15
(15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Christianity stems from Pharisees (Paul, John and Simon the stone (Peter) not Christ after very careful analysis, they can not and will not fit together...
This is basically what you keep offering me as your mitigation, “Christianity does it”?

So me personally doesn't really respond well to the teachings of man that worship Christ, when they obviously are against him on so many points...it disgraces God, in the process!...
So many peoples i have met who will not even speak to God again, due to what happened when they were Christian....doesn’t that show you anything.....

Mar 7:7-9
(7) Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
(8) For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
(9) And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
 

Mercy Not Sacrifice

Well-Known Member
Depends how……………….. as on, if jump right martyred and if jump left martyred, so where is there a middle ground....
So this is where you would expect people to defend Christ, above them self…….

Like with JFK being shot, he made a broadcast about them, yet was then immediately silenced……. he pleaded for support of the community to fix it, so how can you stop something, without it?….

So when a kingdom stands so strongly divided, then obviously something is wrong…..So can’t we fix that between us, so we can see the true Christ and then let that light spread due to it being cleansed?

Instead of looking with glasses made of clay, so when the rain comes the vision becomes worse…..lets set the clay with a fire of the two E-dged s-word and fix it…..

Man, if you're posting through a translator, please stop. They suck.

What was that Paul Newman movie? oh yeah, Cool Hand Luke:

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate"

Fine, fine movie. :bow: "Now if my boy says he can eat 50 eggs, he can eat 50 eggs!"
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
So me personally doesn't really respond well to the teachings of man that worship Christ, when they obviously are against him on so many points...it disgraces God, in the process!...
Could you delineate specifically what teachings of the Church contradict those of Christ, so we'll both know what we're debating? Could you do this one-by-one, please?

So many peoples i have met who will not even speak to God again, due to what happened when they were Christian....doesn’t that show you anything.....
Yes. it shows me that mean people suck.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Issues of the Christian church against Christ:

Long prayers.
Teachings of Balaam (God does not sacrifice).
Worshiping of a man (No image of God).
Grace and inheritance were cut off by Yeshua (Zechariah 11 potters field prophecy).
Drinking any alcohol (Nazarite laws and true follower of Christ)
Cutting of beards and hair (sheep to the slaughter).
Vine is to be burned.
Merchandising sold in churches.
Talking to everyone and not just separating your self’s to Christian love (Philadelphia).
Be a light unto many, not just friends, give to sinners.
Women are equal.
Aim to be perfect, not all are sinners.
Works and by the words people speak is key to Yeshua’s (Salvation) teachings.
Fake name of (jesus) being an insult.
Repentance is from God.
Faith is in God.
Holy Anointing oil is to be used by followers.
No eating unclean meat and preferable none, as it is bad for us and God gave us fruit.
Wisdom of God is worth more then money, not being simple in Christ and getting your self robbed by all.
Give up wealth.
Reincarnation.
Be as Children in faith, simple is the love of God, complicated is man made religion.


Anyways there is some of them, possibly more, as have been researching loads since made that first assessment.

The points are so simple to see if the Pharisee John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros) are shown, plus removed as written...
 

wub51

Member
Interesting. Wiz, what do you mean by this? Those of us who are not Christians would be apt to cite Christians' behavior as evidence or, as seems to be more common, lack of evidence that Christianity is true.

Now of course this gets into the whole realm of close-minded vs. tolerant Christians, etc. But the OP simply refers to Christians in general.

Keep in mind by this that I am not claiming that Christians are any worse than the rest of us. But that is not the claim that needs to be defended here. If Christianity is true, then this will show up as a genuine reflection in its followers. From a statistical point-of-view, the burden lies with those who make the claim of differentiation, not those who question it on the grounds of reasonable doubt. In other words, Christians stand as just another group in the pack unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their brand of morality supercedes all others'.

Christians as a group is more responsible, and has been from the beginning, for giving humanitarian aid to those in need. Could this ‘prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their brand of morality supersedes all others'?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Christians as a group is more responsible, and has been from the beginning, for giving humanitarian aid to those in need. Could this ‘prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their brand of morality supersedes all others'?
Zec 11:5
(5) Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not.


So because a man suffered horribly and people can proclaim this as a Good thing....is that moral?
Can you go and kill your own children then, as it is the moral thing to do?

Righteous people join Christianity as they have no options; the rest got killed or silenced by Christianity…… so is that moral?

Only for the last few hundred years have people been able to read the Bible them self's and so have been blatantly brainwashed into believing something, the Bible stands against (Balaam teachings)...so is that moral?

So when the son of man comes and sees this, do you think he will want anything to do with someone who can proclaim they are moral, for killing his family?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Issues of the Christian church against Christ:

Long prayers.
Teachings of Balaam (God does not sacrifice).
Worshiping of a man (No image of God).
Grace and inheritance were cut off by Yeshua (Zechariah 11 potters field prophecy).
Drinking any alcohol (Nazarite laws and true follower of Christ)
Cutting of beards and hair (sheep to the slaughter).
Vine is to be burned.
Merchandising sold in churches.
Talking to everyone and not just separating your self’s to Christian love (Philadelphia).
Be a light unto many, not just friends, give to sinners.
Women are equal.
Aim to be perfect, not all are sinners.
Works and by the words people speak is key to Yeshua’s (Salvation) teachings.
Fake name of (jesus) being an insult.
Repentance is from God.
Faith is in God.
Holy Anointing oil is to be used by followers.
No eating unclean meat and preferable none, as it is bad for us and God gave us fruit.
Wisdom of God is worth more then money, not being simple in Christ and getting your self robbed by all.
Give up wealth.
Reincarnation.
Be as Children in faith, simple is the love of God, complicated is man made religion.


Anyways there is some of them, possibly more, as have been researching loads since made that first assessment.

The points are so simple to see if the Pharisee John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros) are shown, plus removed as written...
1) How long is long? Did not Christ himself pray for a lengthy period in the garden? So long, in fact, that the disciples could not stay awake with him.
2) Since Xy arose as a sect of Temple Judaism (the kind Jesus would have practiced, BTW), we can expect that sacrifice is part of the sacred ritual that reconciles humanity to God.
3) We do not worship a man. We worship Christ as one person of the Triune God.
4) As I've pointed out, OT prophecy does not speak from a perspective of Christian theology. Therefore, the Zechariah prophecies cannot be cogent to the issue ofgrace and inheritance. That's why there's a new covenant, by which we are reconciled to God through grace.
5) Christ changed water to wine. Christ often used the imagery of wine and grapevines as symbolic of God's imperial rule. Since all grape juice at that time was alcoholic, we must assume that Jesus advocated the drinking of wine.
6) Nowhere does Jesus command us not to cut our hair.
7) I don't know what this references...
8) Selling things in churches? What do you mean? Most of the time, if a church has a bookstore or something, it is non-profit, which is clearly what outraged Jesus in the temple.
9) Who was more a neighbor to the man dying on the road? The Levite, or the Samaritan?
10) How can we do that, if we're only supposed to talk to other Christians like us? What of world relief efforts of many churches? What of the ministry of presesnce that many provide?
11) What do you mean? Women are supposed to be equal, but we don't treat them as such? Or women are not supposed to be equal, but we treat them as such?
12) Actually, all are sinners. Christ said that no one is good but God alone.
13) What fake name? "Jesus?" Do you really think that a language barrier is going to concern Jesus in the least?
14) I don't know what you mean by this.
15) Yes. Our faith is in God.
16) Most Christians do use oil in anointing practices.
17) OT Law, from which we are exempt. BTW, is that not a Pharisaical POV -- not eating unclean meat? If Paul were a Pharisee, touting Pharisaical principles, would he not have imposed the OT sanctions against meat?
18) I don't know what you mean by this.
19) Yes, many of us do fall short here.
20) Reincarnation? What of it? That we should believe in it, or not believe in it? Do you mean resurrection?
21) I agree.
 

FatMan

Well-Known Member
Now I'm prayin' for the end of time!...
:guitar1:

Not to drag this thread further off point, but my signature does have a quote by Phil Rizzuto in it - he of "Paradise by the Dashboard Lights" fame - the announcer making the call about the guy running the bases;)
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Why have you just defended your self, against Christ again?...
Its ok, i will get the scriptures for others to see....as though you think you are being clever, far from it and every defence you have just made, is easily shown where and why NOT....else I wouldn’t have said any of it…
Clearly you do not accept Yeshua’s teachings, as “the blood shed of all prophets is on your head”…
Oh I forgot 'you' deny them don’t 'you'?
So what is a Christ then or a messiah without the Old testament?
 

FatMan

Well-Known Member
Why have you just defended your self, against Christ again?...

Who is defending themselves against Christ??

The best I can tell is that we are negating the illogical assumptions and faulty conclusions you keep drawing. We are trying to protect logic more than to defend anything.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Who is defending themselves against Christ??

The best I can tell is that we are negating the illogical assumptions and faulty conclusions you keep drawing. We are trying to protect logic more than to defend anything.

When many top theologian and noble prize winners have seen Paul is Anti-Christ….Logical?

When the gospel of John is mainly private Pharisee conversations and says “I am Christ” all the time, plus contains contradicting testimonies…yet you are told by Yeshua don’t go after them that say that…Logical?


When you are told don’t follow Pharisees, yet you know Saul/Paul is and was one….logical?
 
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