Audie
Veteran Member
“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg
My question: Why not?
Why search further?
Here is a list.
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“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg
My question: Why not?
To me it would be more accurate to reword the last sentence to say,Ok... understand the difference... Not all sins are wicked but every wicked act is a sin would be another way to say it. Likewise, a person can do a wicked deed and not be wicked.
Not if you believe what is recorded.But isn't whether or not what Adam and Eve did was wicked an opinion at most?
Where does the record claim that Adam or Eve no longer believed in the truth or that they selected another god?It can be viewed that Adam chose to not believe the truth and select another god as the way to truth and life which could be classified as a wicked decision.
Not if you had no knowledge of good and evil.Certainly, if I caused a death, it could be classified as a wicked deed.
I disagree completely.Certainly this point would be a matter of opinion IMV.
They did? Where is that written?They did know what happened to Lucifer/Satan/Serpent (also known as the Wicked One).
You do have a knowledge of Good and Evil though.I don't need to go to jail to understand that I don't want to rob a bank.
The Genesis account does not record that Adam and Eve knew that partaking of the fruit would cause them to be separated from God.So they did understand that separation from God is not good and to choose the path of Satan is a wrong decision.
Yes. God's plan for His children relied on Adam and Eve partaking of the fruit and entering into mortality.Ultimately, I would guess that it's God's call and for us, just an opinion.
I felt that it was important to mention that there is no "Original Sin" that all of Mankind is responsible for when discussing "who will get to heaven".Just curious, what is your point about all of this?
Why?It beats me how anyone can believe the Adam and Eve story to be anymore than a myth created by the human imagination.
Don't say so householder Amanaki, don't say so. Not only recollecting the Buddha, but also to recollect Gods and Devas lead to heavenly existence (yet such is of cause not lasting, but enormous longer then a human, easy perceived as "ever" therefore.)And in my understanding only a belief of a higher being would not give a human a "free ticket" to heaven,
But even if doing such, if at the time of break up of the body one holds wrong view, hell would be his destiny.As human beings we must cultivate our action, speech and thoughts every moment we are living.
Also this is not right, not what the Buddha taught. Awakening requires to let go of all kinds of existence and non-existence. Form, formless...And only when we have let go of the clinging to human existence will we experience enlightenment.
To me it would be more accurate to reword the last sentence to say,
"Likewise, a person can [commit sin] and not be wicked."
A "wicked deed" would imply an evil motive, which would make a person wicked.
- Where does the record claim that Adam or Eve no longer believed in the truth or that they selected another god?
- The Genesis account claims that Eve decided to partake of the fruit because the tree was desired "to make one wise" (Genesis 3:6), not because she no longer believed in the truth or that God was false.
- It also records that Adam hid from God due to being naked and afraid (Genesis 3:10) which shows that he still believed that God was to be feared. He didn't hide from the serpent, only God.
- And the reason Adam gave to God for his partaking of the fruit was to keep God's other commandment to remain with Eve in order to multiple and replenish the Earth. (Genesis 1:28;3:12)
- So, when Eve partook of the fruit and offered it to Adam he was placed in the situation of choosing which of the two commandments given him to keep.
- All he knew was that any who partook of the fruit would "surely die", so he decided to partake of it to remain with her regardless of the outcome.
- That sounds honorable and brave to me.
- Also, because he was the patriarch of his little family, Adam was responsible for Eve's actions.
But he didNot if you had no knowledge of good and evil.
And you know this how?They did? Where is that written?
How could they know about him without having a knowledge of good and evil?
I do not believe they knew what had happened to Lucifer at that time and even if it were to be explained to them they would not have been able to comprehend it.
They had literally zero knowledge/understanding concerning good and evil. Right and wrong. Vice and virtue.
Yes they did. The word for "die" is plural in the Hebrew and I doubt that God didn't explain what it meant. They statements after are based on your own interpretation.The Genesis account does not record that Adam and Eve knew that partaking of the fruit would cause them to be separated from God.
All they knew was that they would "surely die" if they partook of it. Did they truly understand what death was?
If, however, they did know that it would cause their expulsion from the Garden, then Adam would have gone against God's commandment to multiply and replenish the Earth if he had not also partaken of the fruit.
He also would have contradicted God's own statement that, "It is not good that the man should be alone..." (Genesis 2:18)
The account also does not record that Adam and Eve knew anything about Satan and his fall from grace and I believe that without the knowledge of good and evil they would not have been able to understand it had they known.
No.Yes. God's plan for His children relied on Adam and Eve partaking of the fruit and entering into mortality.
Yes... He always wants us to return to Him.I felt that it was important to mention that there is no "Original Sin" that all of Mankind is responsible for when discussing "who will get to heaven".
Yes, we are under the curse of the Fall, but God's goal for us has always been to work through the difficulties of mortality and return to Him.
He always intended for us to become as He is and suffering through mortality is part of the process of making us like God.
Because it is not credible, just a silly tale.Why?
That you are not agree to the buddhist view is ok, Buddhism and Christianity do see things differently.
Can i ask, When you was is heaven as you call it. What did you experience and if it is possible to describe how you enter the heavenly realm?
Did you use a form of prayer or meditation?
There is no heaven. So, nobody will go there.
Ciao
- viole
What about people who lead good lives but have no religion?
I suppose you know this because you know where to look to see that it isn't there,right?
What is good about the Biblical god, the deeds attributed to it are evil in the extreme?I believe theere is no-one who leads a good life as Jesus said there is no-one good but God.
I believe theere is no-one who leads a good life as Jesus said there is no-one good but God.
How is it not credible?Because it is not credible, just a silly tale.
Yes, once Adam sinned No one could live past a thousand-year day.Fair enough.
However, the Genesis account records that the people of that time had very long lifespans. Almost an entire millennia.
One hundred years of age to them would be like 7-8 years of age when compared to our lifespans.
An one hundred year old Abel may still have been considered a minor child.
Either way, the record does not mention Abel being married or having children, while it does mention Cain being both married and having children.
I am inclined to believe that if Abel had a wife and children the record would have made mention of it.
That depends on what you mean by "Heaven".
When we die we enter the "spirit world" that has at least three different conditions of existence; Paradise, Prison and Hell.
Paradise directly correlates with the mainstream idea of "Heaven", although it is not a final resting place.
These conditions of existence are temporary and all will eventually leave them after they are Resurrected.
After our Resurrection we will receive our Final Judgment.
That Judgment will determine where in God's Kingdom we will dwell and what responsibilities we will have.
It is after our Resurrection and Judgment that we enter into eternity.
So nobody goes to heaven then,seems like a lot of people are waisting their time if they are trying their best to be good because of religion for a ticket to heaven,it's not a problem for the non religious of course.
Seems to me Mr. Swedenborg never read the Bible.“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg
My question: Why not?
One who develops virtues, virtues give causes to reappear in heavenly realms:
"If a householder who observes conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct, should wish: 'Oh, that on the dissolution of the body, after death, I might reappear in the company of the gods of the Four Kings!' it is possible that on the dissolution of the body, after death, he may do so. Why is that? Because he observes conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct.
19. ...of the gods of the Realm of the Thirty-three...[3]
20. ...of the gods that have Gone to Bliss...
21. ...of the Contented gods...
22. ...of the gods that Delight in Creating...
23. ...of the gods that Wield Power over others' Creations...
24. ...of the gods of Brahma's Retinue...
25. ...of the Radiant gods...
26. ...of the gods of Limited Radiance...
27. ...of the gods of Measureless Radiance...
28. ...of the gods of Streaming Radiance...
29. ...of the Glorious gods...
30. ...of the gods of Limited Glory...
31. ...of the gods of Measureless Glory...
32. ...of the gods of Refulgent Glory...
33. ...of the Very Fruitful gods...
34. ...of the gods Bathed in their own Prosperity...
35. ...of the Untormenting gods...
36. ...of the Fair-to-see gods...
37. ...of the Fair-seeing gods...
38. ...of the gods who are Junior to None...
39. ...of the gods of the base consisting of the infinity of space...
40. ...of the gods of the base consisting of the infinity of consciousness...
41. ...of the gods of the base consisting of nothingness...
42. "If a householder who observes conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct, should wish: 'Oh, that on the dissolution of the body, after death, I might reappear in the company of the gods of the base consisting of neither-perception-nor-non-perception!' it is possible that, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he may do so. Why is that? Because he observes conduct in accordance with the Dhamma, righteous conduct.
One who developes generosity, generosity causes reapearing in heavenly realms:
"Furthermore, at the break-up of the body, after death, one who gives, who is a master of giving, reappears in a good destination, the heavenly world. And the fact that at the break-up of the body, after death, one who gives, who is a master of giving, reappears in a good destination, the heavenly world: this is a fruit of generosity in the next life."
Before Jesus came as Messiah No one was offered heaven - John 3:13
Even King David did Not ascend - Acts of the Apostles 2:34
Mankind's hope was to be resurrected back to healthy physical life right here on Earth.
Jesus only offered heaven (spirit life) to people like those of Luke 22:28-30.
Thus, I find the majority of mankind is offered: everlasting life on Earth.
This everlasting life on Earth will begin at the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
Those living people can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 and see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.
Thus, they can be here on Earth to welcome back those who will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection with the opportunity to live forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden originally was.
“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg
My question: Why not?