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Featured Who or What is the Holy Spirit?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by adrian009, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    The Holy Spirit forms an essential aspect of the theology of Christianity, best known as one of the three parts of the Christian Triune God. However the Holy Spirit forms part of the theology of other Abrahamic Faiths and can also form part of the world view of Dharmic Faiths. There is a rich tapestry of ideas and concepts concerning the Holy Spirit and this thread is an opportunity towards achieving a better understanding.

    What are the origins of some of these differing concepts?

    What are the inconsistencies and contradictions?

    Why would one or more of these concepts be true, and others not?
     
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  2. Tumah

    Tumah Well-Known Member

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    Holy spirit is the phrased used to refer to an influx of spiritual energy to a person. There are two ways this affects a person. One is a spiritual increase of ability within a certain aspect of a person, such as the intellect, imagination or body. When a verse refers to one of these, it says that the spirit is inside the person. The other type is for prophecy, in which case it says that the spirit rests on the person.
     
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  3. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for your post.

    Would you consider this Wikipedia article accurate?

    Holy Spirit in Judaism - Wikipedia

    Do you have any links to any articles or essays that consider the question in more details from a Jewish perspective?
     
  4. Vee

    Vee Member

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    The bible defines the Holy Spirit as God's active force, like a form of energy He uses.

    The Greek word translated “spirit” is pneuʹma, which also conveys the idea of an invisible power. According to Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, the word pneuʹma “primarily denotes the wind . . . also breath; then, especially the spirit, which, like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful.”
     
  5. Jedster

    Jedster Bazinga

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    {PMFJI} I looked at the wiki link and the reference Psalms 51:11 should be 51:13. {end of JIining}.

    Edited to add: I just checked with some translations from non-Jewish sources and found that they have a different translation(or order of verses) from The Jewish psalms.
    I find it strange that that Wiki would use Christian version of Psalms to provide explanations about Jewish beliefs.
    I doubt this makes any difference to this discussion, but in case you are interested here
    is reference to a Jewish translation Psalms 51 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre
     
    #5 Jedster, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
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  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Active Member

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    The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.
     
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  7. Tumah

    Tumah Well-Known Member

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    It looks accurate enough although it only appears to be addressing the holy spirit when used in reference to prophecy or other degrees of communication with the Divine.

    Not in English. There's a site that gathers sources under various topics. I found the answer to the question on this page about "spirit of G-d" there's another page about "holy spirit" and a third about G-d's "Presence".
     
  8. David T

    David T Well-Known Member

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    False
     
  9. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Other than Trinitarian Christians, which religions have a differing concept? Who other than the Trinitarian Christians make the Holy Spirit separate but equal part of a Godhead?
     
  10. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    Hi there, I'm not convinced the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a separate entity to Christ. My understanding for the justification of this belief is when Jesus says:

    "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:16

    When just 2 verses later Jesus says:

    "I will not leave you comfortless (orphanos in the Greek): I will come to you." John 14:18

    A close examination of Jesus's speech here in John shows that Jesus was speaking to them in proverbs (John 16:25)

    Evidence throughout the New Testament identifies the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God's Son. One Spirit different descriptions:

    "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:9-11

    Note the constant swapping between the Spirit of the Son and the Spirit of the Father as if they're one and the same.

    "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Galatians 4:6

    At the very least the Holy Spirit from a New Testament perspective seems to be synonymous with the very presence of God.
     
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  11. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Active Member

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    If I maybe of some help with the Comforter, Holy Spirit.

    While Christ Jesus was here on earth there was no need of the Comforter, Holy Spirit.

    This is why Christ Jesus said if I go not away, the Comforter,Holy Spirit can not come, but I must go, So I will send the Comforter, Holy Spirit in my name.
    John 16:7-8.
     
  12. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the Paraclete (Holy Spirit) is God residing in the person who has received Jesus as Lord and Savior.

    I believe that would not be the Paraclete but a more generic understanding of the Holy Spirit.
     
  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I have neveer seen that definition in the Bible and my guess is that it comes from someones imagination. The Holy Spirit is God. I don't believe in anthropomorphizing the attributes of God.
     
  14. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for your response.

    How does it do that?

    I agree with the Greek translation.

    Some elaboration:

    New Testament
    • πνεύματος ἁγίου (Pneumatos Hagiou) - Holy Spirit (Mt 1, 18)
    • πνεύματι θεοῦ (Pneumati Theou) - Spirit of God (Mt 12,28)
    • ὁ παράκλητος (Ho Paraclētos) - The Intercesor (Jn 16,7)
    • πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας (Pneuma tēs Alētheias) - Spirit of Truth (Jn 16, 13)
    • Πνεῦμα Χριστοῦ (Pneuma Christou) - Spirit of Christ (1 Pt, 11)
    Depending on context:
    • πνεῦμα (Pneuma) - Spirit (Jn 3,8)
    • Πνεύματος (Pneumatos) - Spirit (Jn 3,8)
    Holy Spirit in Christianity - Wikipedia

    Not that I know any Greek.

    I'm just wanting to see if the words are used consistently throughout the NT or it has different meanings.

    The Holy Spirit in John for example seems to have a different meaning to the Holy Spirit in Acts.

    And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
    John 14:16-18 appears to suggest an actual person

    While Acts 2:1-4 suggests something different:
    And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
    And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
     
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  15. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thats very perceptive of you. Thank you. It is better to have a Jewish translation of Jewsih scripture for certain.

    Psalms 51:13 Cast me not away from Thy presence; and take not Thy holy spirit from me.יג אַל-תַּשְׁלִיכֵנִי מִלְּפָנֶיךָ; וְרוּחַ קָדְשְׁךָ, אַל-תִּקַּח מִמֶּנִּי
     
  16. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I think it is only the Trinitarians that do this, but they are the make up the majority of Christians as far as I can see. There are clearly other approaches within Christianity and other faiths.
     
  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for your well considered thoughts about the Holy Spirit

    I wonder if the verses are Messianic, or refer to the Return of Christ similar to the Parousia.

    When Christ returns we speaks in a different mannner, more directly.

    Or perhaps different aspects of that Oneness?

    Or the Spirit of Christ which is both seperate and part of God if the Trinity is correct.
     
  18. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I was wondering if references to the Holy Spirit in the NT might mean different things.

    Perhaps the use of the Holy Spirit is similar to the Return of Christ?
     
  19. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    So how do you know it is the Holy Spirit residing in you?
     
  20. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Active Member

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    Alot of Christians will confess of having the Holy Spirit, but then if you ask them to explain certain things in the bible, they have no clue.
    Now Waite your saying you have the Holy Spirit which gave the scriptures of the bible, but yet you don't have a clue of what things mean in the bible.
    What's wrong with this picture?

    That's like asking your mechanic that works on your car, about something on your car, but yet he doesn't have a clue about it.
    Then why is he working on your car.

    You know I would be in question what spirit do you have exactly, If your claiming to have that very Spirit which gave bible, scriptures, how is it that you don't know?

    Whats wrong with this picture?
     
    #20 Faithofchristian, Sep 20, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
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